Ammo Reloading

[|SnOmAn|]

So I've been throwing around the idea of saving to buy equipment to reload my own ammo and if I get good enough, maybe sell some at cheap cost. I have been looking online at some of the equipment. I was curious if anyone has done this? I am not sure if it is really worth it. Some people say it is, some say it's a waste. I have been interesting in it, but not 100% sure. I know the initial cost will be pricey but after that it is not too bad.

Am I wasting my time?

[MidgetTodd]

You're completely wasting your time for two reasons, 1 the gun you shoot takes cheap easy to find ammo and 2 you don't shoot near enough to make back the investment anytime soon.

[Beegreenstrings]

+1

I reload but most of what I reload are for the jewel in my avatar and my 1000yd weapon. I do some reloading for hand gun ammo when I know there is a three gun comp coming up. I do reload all my shotgun shells for trap skeet and field.

It is not difficult to pay for your equipment but you cant buy one specific caliber and expect to see the payback immediately. It takes time. Your largest benefit to reloading is the idea you can shoot more. What I save in reloading goes out the door because I can pull the trigger more.

I purchased a cheap "O" style press from RCBS. Simple single stage type of a machine. But I can crank out a lot of .45 on it in a reasonable amount of time. It has paid for itself in less than a year. but, I shoot a extreme amount of ammo in USPSA comp. This ammo is all spent during practice. I use factory loads when I am shooting for time.

Shotgun shells. My press has paid for itself 1000 times over. I have a 9000 series mec that cranks them out! But, when you have two people in the house that shoot trap on a regular basis you need to have something like a progressive.

My LARGEST and BEST chunk of advice... BUY the reloading bible from Hornady so you dont do something crazy!!! i make some overly hot hott rounds sometimes, but they only go into the guns that "I" believe can handle them. You are going to find that it is not just reloading. You will be getting into Feet per second FPS and muzzle velocities, chamber pressures! and foot pounds related to grains of a bullet compared to velocity and load with different powders.

I went from having a press and standard info I pulled off of the internet to making custom loads using a chrono and pushing the limits by using different types of powders. That is the true benefit to reloading.

Oh and it makes "me" shooting my .375 H&H Magnum affordable. Deadly Game rounds for that thing normally are 79.99-114.99 a box of 20. As long as I have the Brass I can do them for about 25.00 a box.

There are HUGE saving when reloading .50BMG... But I dont have that press.

As for reloading to sell... You better only sell to friends and family. ATF does not look at that to well. Way to much liability on the reloader.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Beegreenstrings

[obesityrules]

right now ammo is cheap, buy in bulk and save the brass

[vf1000ride]

right now ammo is cheap, buy in bulk and save the brass

WTF are you smoking. Ammo is not cheap. I used to buy 9mm for $5 per 50 for new, name branded ammo. I ain't seen that stuff under $10 per 50 in years. Ammo is double what it was 8-10 years ago.

Reloading your own can save you cash but like Beegreen says, you will only end up shooting more so the cost savings isn't as apparent.

[speedytriple]

how many times can brass be reloaded? been thinking about this also.

[John]

it varies.

with moderate loads you may lose the brass at the range before it splits. if you are using high powered loads, maybe a few times.

[rpone605]

Selling that stuff carries a liability you don't want. If your going to reload. Do it for yourself only.

I won't even sell ammo to friends/family. If you oops a round and it blows up on someone you can get sued.

[kawi kid]

I do it. To me its kinda calming, I usually wake up on a sat morning and grab a cup of coffee and sit down and do a bunch. I load mostly 243 bit have been looking into doing 40 and 380. 9mm is mkt gonna save me enough to even consider it. If you shoot alot like I do its worth it.

[vf1000ride]

I can normally get 3-4 reloads from the .30-06 in my garands. That gun is really hard on brass though. From a bolt action rifle you could expect upwards of 8-10. Pistol ammo I will have to see. I just purchased a Lee Load-Master progressive press this morning. Can't wait to start pumping out pistol ammo and make shooting a little more affordable.

[kawi kid]

I just keep an on my brass I really don't know how many times I reuse.

[obesityrules]

WTF are you smoking. Ammo is not cheap. I used to buy 9mm for $5 per 50 for new, name branded ammo. I ain't seen that stuff under $10 per 50 in years. Ammo is double what it was 8-10 years ago.

Reloading your own can save you cash but like Beegreen says, you will only end up shooting more so the cost savings isn't as apparent.

cheaper than it was a year a go, 556 is down about $150 per 1k for brass cased ammo. sure its not down to 2001 prices (or 1991 or 1981 etc) but it is down enough to make reloading common rounds negligible.

reloading cost calculator

http://10xshooters.com/calculators/Handgun_Reloading_Cost_Calculator.htm

ammo price comparison

http://www.gun-deals.com/ammo.php

[ReconRat]

1. The cost of metals has at least doubled. So everything made of metal is twice as expensive for materials now. Ammo and reloading both.

2. You can't sell ammo you make, per ATF regulations. Only a manufacturer, with a manufacturer's license. Fair warning. Nor would you want to. The liabilities and insurance are too high.

3. If you don't count the initial investment in reloading equipment, reloading is cheaper. Also, don't count your time spent reloading. You're not getting paid to reload.

4. Do research before purchasing equipment. You won't want to buy stuff twice. I prefer gear that works best for handgun ammo, but still works for the occasional rifle load or two. Handgun loads will be hundreds at a time. Rifle loads may be only 20 at a time. Beyond that, consider a progressive die loading rig, instead of a single stage, for a higher rate of production. Again, it costs more. But it's ok to have both types of loading rigs. The single stage is more accurate. Some will argue that, but I insist.

5. Don't bother reloading or making mil spec ammo. Just buy it bulk. Multiple reasons.

6. Tapered crimp on shell casings, like that on a 9mm, is harder to do and will take some practice. Actually, both roll crimp and taper crimp are vitally important to accurate loading, and must be consistent. Other than a correct propellant charge, it's the most important part.

7. Learn not to overload your rounds. Learn all the ways you might over load your rounds. Learn the warning signs of an over loaded round. Test a small batch of your hand loads first, to see if they are over loaded.

8. Keep notes on processes and practices. So you can repeat the good ones, and avoid the bad ones.

9. Learn all the errors of reloading and don't do them.

10.Accuracy can be extremely good with hand loads. If you can't do that, you're wasting your time.

I can't speak for equipment that is available in the market place currently. I'd have to do some research. But I know what I like. A high quality single stage press, a variety of taper and roll crimp dies, some are carbide, and some are not. the most accurate powder drop I can find, even if I have to get two, one for small handgun cartridges, and one for rifle cartridges. A good analog or digital scale, for checking cartridges after production. Don't fire anything that is too light or too heavy. Dismantle those with a bullet puller and do over. Several good loading manuals. Especially the lyman manual with chamber pressures indicated for the loading charts. And a decent caliper to measure shell lengths and dimensions.

One last note: Handling lead is toxic. It's absorbed through your skin, and doesn't want to leave the body. Wear gloves.

[ReconRat]

Reloading errors:

1. Not inspecting shell casings for cracks and damage and FOD. Usually gets stuck in your die on your press (or your weapon). Hard to get out. (Also not cleaning them.)

2. Not inspecting your shell casings after loading propellant in each. before pressing the bullet. There might be some with double charge or no charge in them.

3. Not checking the diameter of your bullet (in general), before loading them, relative to the bore diameter of the weapon(s) that will fire them. Yes, some are too big or too small. Learn what size is correct for the type of bullet/barrel.

4. Primers that are seated too deep. It raises the chamber pressures a tiny bit, but you'll be lucky if it fires at all. If it does, the primer might move or break, since it was too deep.

5. Primers that are seated too shallow, and stick out. This will jam a revolver sometimes. The firing pin might pierce a hole in it, and chunks, powder, and gases will blow out inside your weapon. It might even fire out of battery in an auto loader. This is very bad. Do not try to reseat a primer after the bullet is loaded.

6. Primers that are really flat and flush with the shell casing after firing. This in an over charged propellant. Don't do that.

7. Primers that are sort of almost flat and flush with the shell casing after firing. This is an almost over charged propellant. Don't do that either.

8. Cartridges that go "pffft" when you try to fire them, and the barrel drops instead of jumping up. This would be a cartridge that had no propellant loaded, and the bullet is stuck in your barrel. Remove it before firing another one.

9. Not checking the shell casing lengths to see if they've stretched too far. There are limits published for that. They can get long enough that they won't fit correctly. Again, firing out of battery is bad. Or getting stuck when it's forced to fit. I just sell them back when they get too long.

10. Bullets that are seated too deep. This raises the chamber pressures to unsafe levels. Yes, that would be dangerous to fire.

11. Bullets that are seated too shallow. They can hit the limits of the weapon's chamber, basically they won't fit. (Long shell casing also.) Yup, this can raise the chamber pressures also. Also might fire out of battery. Danger times two.

12. Not weighing your cartridges after finished loading. Not absolutely necessary, but you will occasionally find one too light or too heavy. Double charged propellant, no propellant, bad bullet, etc. All are bad to fire. Dismantle with bullet puller and start over. (Do not push out live primers, safely fire them instead.)

Have I ever done any of these? Yeah, most of them. Or I've seen some one else do it. Did I catch it before it was too late? Yeah, most of them. There are reasons to push the limits, when hand loading. But I wouldn't do that without a good understanding of the consequences.

Loading charts are approximate for weapons in general. Various weapons will require variation to be successful. Imitating factory cartridges is a good place to start. They generally work for everything.

[C-bus]

+1

I reload but most of what I reload are for the jewel in my avatar and my 1000yd weapon. I do some reloading for hand gun ammo when I know there is a three gun comp coming up. I do reload all my shotgun shells for trap skeet and field.

It is not difficult to pay for your equipment but you cant buy one specific caliber and expect to see the payback immediately. It takes time. Your largest benefit to reloading is the idea you can shoot more. What I save in reloading goes out the door because I can pull the trigger more.

I purchased a cheap "O" style press from RCBS. Simple single stage type of a machine. But I can crank out a lot of .45 on it in a reasonable amount of time. It has paid for itself in less than a year. but, I shoot a extreme amount of ammo in USPSA comp. This ammo is all spent during practice. I use factory loads when I am shooting for time.

Shotgun shells. My press has paid for itself 1000 times over. I have a 9000 series mec that cranks them out! But, when you have two people in the house that shoot trap on a regular basis you need to have something like a progressive.

My LARGEST and BEST chunk of advice... BUY the reloading bible from Hornady so you dont do something crazy!!! i make some overly hot hott rounds sometimes, but they only go into the guns that "I" believe can handle them. You are going to find that it is not just reloading. You will be getting into Feet per second FPS and muzzle velocities, chamber pressures! and foot pounds related to grains of a bullet compared to velocity and load with different powders.

I went from having a press and standard info I pulled off of the internet to making custom loads using a chrono and pushing the limits by using different types of powders. That is the true benefit to reloading.

Oh and it makes "me" shooting my .375 H&H Magnum affordable. Deadly Game rounds for that thing normally are 79.99-114.99 a box of 20. As long as I have the Brass I can do them for about 25.00 a box.

There are HUGE saving when reloading .50BMG... But I dont have that press.

As for reloading to sell... You better only sell to friends and family. ATF does not look at that to well. Way to much liability on the reloader.

+1

[flounder]

I do quite a bit of reloading and it depends on what your looking to do to be honest. I have a friend that is a custom reloader as a living so I can give advice from that standpoint as well.

1. To manufacture and sell ammo, you need a license from the ATF which I believe is only $25-$50 per year. You can find it on their site pretty easily.

2. Before you can even think about a return on investment of your equipment, there are multiple things to consider. You will be able to pay for your equipment fairly quickly if you are loading for yourself and shooting quite a bit. How quick depends on what you are loading. .308 and up will give you a ROI quicker then pistol will. If you are thinking about making money reloading and selling, you have to find a market. 5.56 and pistol for people you know will be quickest assuming they want better then bulk and cheaper then factory. (fyi, your reloads probably wont be better then factory but may be cheaper if you dont count your time. . Youre only possibility of an sales audience is the random range go'ers, AKA, people just dumping rounds and dont really care about accuracy.

3. Accuracy in reloading takes a shitload of time and to make it go quick you need some fairly expensive equipment.

4. With that being said. I think after you look at the time and equipment it takes to reload for yourself, you will no longer want to try and reload to make money.

And lets not forget the liability issue which I wont even go into.

My suggestion would be to start loading for yourself and you will find out real quick if its something you want to do. Being honest with you, I would never buy reloaded ammo from someone that just got into it because you dont have the experience and havent had those "Oh shit" moments that really cause you to learn and be meticulous. You need to load for yourself for a good long time before trying to load for someone else.

Edited December 23, 2010 by flounder

[marca]

If you are reloading lots of handgun ammo, you will want a "progressive" press like those made by Dillon and others. Life is too short to do these on a single stage press. I have a Dillon 550 that I have been using for years and years. There are both cheaper and more expensive models. Once set up properly, you can literally turn the crank to make quality ammo. For small amounts of precision rifle ammo, the Dillon-style progressive press is probably overkill and maybe even a negative.

[|SnOmAn|]

Good stuff guys, thank you....

I guess I didn't mean sell out on the market. I would definitely do it for myself for a LONG TIME before even offering it for people I know. Maybe I would not even sell it to anyone, just do it for myself so I could shoot more often than I do now. There is a lot to think about before getting into this stuff.

Recon, Beegreenstrings and Flounder, thank you for your time in writing these replies.

[|SnOmAn|]

If you are reloading lots of handgun ammo, you will want a "progressive" press like those made by Dillon and others. Life is too short to do these on a single stage press. I have a Dillon 550 that I have been using for years and years. There are both cheaper and more expensive models. Once set up properly, you can literally turn the crank to make quality ammo. For small amounts of precision rifle ammo, the Dillon-style progressive press is probably overkill and maybe even a negative.

Yeah, I was looking at the Dillon press. The 650, I think, is real sweet!

[dugan n rita]

Yes the atf may not like but, doing it for and with your friends is ahoot and the lot of ya will save and enjoy,but dont 4get most all guns shoot factory ammo well but not all guns have the same throut, so you may have to set your dies to match the gun and not all guns like to shoot on the lands, well sorry to get long with it. Yes you will saveand your groups get smaller, so enjoy and happy hole-punchin.

[flounder]

Yes the atf may not like but, doing it for and with your friends is ahoot and the lot of ya will save and enjoy,but dont 4get most all guns shoot factory ammo well but not all guns have the same throut, so you may have to set your dies to match the gun and not all guns like to shoot on the lands, well sorry to get long with it. Yes you will saveand your groups get smaller, so enjoy and happy hole-punchin.

Try again in English please. And the bold is just the start.

[Gump]

Try again in English please. And the bold is just the start.

lol...I thought MarlboroMan was posting..but I was wrong. Carry on.

[vf1000ride]

I started my reloading on an old RCBS J3 single stage press. Used it for years making .30-06 match ammo. I haven't shot a highpower match in years now and most of my loading is done to save cash. Two guys I work with and I have gone in together to get that Lee Load-Master I mentioned earlier. We are looking at loading for 9mm, .357sig, .40S&W and .45acp. From the numbers I have run, on average over those 4 chamberings we can save roughly half versus buying factory ammo even with the expense of the press figured into it. 9mm not as much savings, .357sig a lot of savings.

From that link Obesityrules posted up we can save enough just by loading the .357sig versus Winchester white box that the loading press will be paid off in only 500 rounds of ammo. There is definitely some economics to doing it yourself. $14 per hundred 124gr FMJ versus the Winchester 124gr FMJ at $64 per hundred.

Like other have said, and it bears repeating. Buy the books, read the books, understand the books. Getting in touch with somebody that has done reloading and can explain the terms used and that can show you what to look for is also a big help. Then buy equipment and load ammo. A big boom in your face and a broken gun because you fouled things up while making ammo costs more than just money.

[Beegreenstrings]

how many times can brass be reloaded? been thinking about this also.

Depends upon hot loads or moderate loads and if you heat treat your brass and also if you are doing neck sizing only or if you are doing entire case sizing.

Entire case sizing weakens the case over time.

however, neck sizing can allow a case to swell just below the neck.

Give and take.

[dugan n rita]

Try again in English please. And the bold is just the start.

cumin from a guy takin a drink from the fountin