jporter12 Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 So, density=octane? That's the first I've ever heard that one.Higher octane fuel burns slower, and I'm guessing more consistently than lower octane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadepenn Posted June 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 No, premium gas by it's formulation is denser holding more energyAnd yes, premium fuel is more stable resulting in a more consistent burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblosser Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Porter/Chebby: If my truck/car engine pings, I need to up the octane and/or adjust the timing? If no pinging, then I'm (presumably) OK?Wade: Not that you would necessarily know, but why Dayton? I realize the gub-ment's involved, but if it's good enough for Dayton, shouldn't it be good enough for the entire state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 interesting stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadepenn Posted June 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 The Dayton area including Springfield were both heavy industrial polution sites in their history, so I can only guess they have tighter regulation today is my guess. but the subgrade will make it's way statewide Over time as it saves the fuel companies $ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBWalker Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 i get a couple more mpg with prem. vs reg. fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modular Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I ride a Hardley so I must be gay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 The energy is actually heat of formation (J/kmol). The density is how tightly the molecules can be packed in a given tank space, plus the molecules. Less space between molecules is good. Close to the same thing, but the fuel heat released when burned is the actual energy output. Some molecular compounds just release more heat energy for their size (density). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent2406 Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I don't know anything about all this mumbo jumbo shit you guys are spewing; I just want my ride in the space shuttle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 i put a tank of 120 octane race gas in my fiances sebring today.... all the extra octane density made it do 1.85$and it still got 73.2 mpg!!!glad ive been enlightened that octane = power....ill never switch back to loser gas like 87 or 94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) And the site you listed was a green site, so considering the source... It's like watching Fox news without research. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut12.shtmhttp://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=105http://kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/384496-why-you-should-not-run-higher-octane-than-requiredhttp://abauerporsche.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/higher-octane-fuel-is-it-worth-it/http://www.freeautomechanic.com/High-Octane-Fuel-Is-Better.htmlhttp://www.livecheap.com/automotive/maintain/517-does-high-octane-gas-improve-gas-mileageenough sources? (second link goes into a ton of detail) i only found that first article as a quick way to explain stuff since i had to leave and pick up my girl....i already knew how the stuff works, and im not a professional fuel driver.just because i sort boxes at ups, doesnt mean i know how cardboard is manufactured and what type of materials are better to make boxes with than othersi understand your point of this thread informing us that 87 here isnt 87 in dayton - but my original post was about bad information - and theres plenty in heremy intentions werent to "slam you" or personally attack you or however you took it etc....i just get so tired of hearing people say that they run premium in their cars/bikes that call for 87 because it gives more power, burns cleaner, burns cooler, whatever else..... it just doesnt make any sense....its a big pet peeve of mine....friend of mine fills his stock mustang with 93 octane on every fill up and i tried explaining it to him and he doesnt get it either lol....if you wanna throw money away thats fine, but please dont claim a bunch of false improvements and convince other people to do the same Edited June 23, 2011 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) requires 87 or higher, reccomends 91 or higher...I took this to mean that the computer would compensate for lower grades of fuel (as low as 87) by retarding the timing if it detected knocking, but was ideally suited for 91 or better at it's normally advanced timing. not sure, but this has been my operating theory for the last 3 years, and the extra $0.60 per tank isn't killing me.i would agree what youre doing is the right thing....like i mentioned, i wasnt sure exactly what your owners manual said as far as octane rating went for your specific bike since ive never owned one... if it reccomends 91 i would probably pump premium aswell ...i was speaking in kind of broad terms....i do believe 91 is the max you can get in some states, not everybody has 93 and 94 on pump, so when a manual calls for "premium" - as long as you pump 91 you will be ok.....i always thought it was hilarious seeing 87 91 93 94 on the same pump, with a 10 cent difference...no stock car needs more than 91, so getting 93 is pointless, let alone going up one more octane to 94...30 cent difference at 20mpg and 15k miles driven per year would be $225 wasted for people that put 94 into a stock car that calls for 87....that even will lure in people with luxury calls calling for "premium"...especially jumping up to 94 instead of 93...gas companies love the uninformed public....only thing i ever had to run 93 in was my mustang with a custom tune and a ton of timing, and obviously once you start modding the factory octane rating may not apply anymore, but i would say probably 95% of cars on the road have stock tunes and arent on fire-breathing performance tunes Edited June 23, 2011 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Automotive fuel can have as little as 25% "gasoline" in it at the pump. Most of the rest is stuff that burns just as well, and is generally similar to gasoline. Straight gasoline is a terrible fuel. It detonates too early when burned. Agreed, higher octane fuels are generally not as powerful as the low octane fuels. Octane is not power, nor energy. And neither is density, but density is the big potential for the amount of energy in the space of a tank. So it effects performance in that way. In other words, there are less dense fuels that have more performance. But not always. It depends on what it is. The basic example is a high carbon fuel has great density, but the carbon does nothing for performance.The formulation of fuel at the pump used to change seasonally two to four times a year. In the Summer, it's to prevent vapor lock. In the Winter it's to prevent fuel line freezing. Don't know if it still does. With all that is in fuel now, it might not be necessary.E10 at the pump and not marked on the pump anymore:http://www.ohioriders.net/showpost.php?p=551153&postcount=11What's in fuel other than gasoline:http://www.ohioriders.net/showpost.php?p=551664&postcount=24from this old thread:http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=65051 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Where can I get gas with out the ethanol in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Where can I get gas with out the ethanol in it?I would say "Bad's colon" but I'm pretty sure there'd be some sort of grain alcohol mixed in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Porter/Chebby: If my truck/car engine pings, I need to up the octane and/or adjust the timing? If no pinging, then I'm (presumably) OK?Old school, yes. These days, vehicles have knock sensors that can detect detonation before you can hear it, and adjust for it.Wade: Not that you would necessarily know, but why Dayton? I realize the gub-ment's involved, but if it's good enough for Dayton, shouldn't it be good enough for the entire state?So, what's good for California should be good enough for the rest of us? The formulation of fuel at the pump used to change seasonally two to four times a year. In the Summer, it's to prevent vapor lock. In the Winter it's to prevent fuel line freezing. Don't know if it still does. With all that is in fuel now, it might not be necessary.As far as I know, the fuel does still change between seasons. Ironically, season changes are when those of us on the auto repair industry see more failed fuel pumps. Interesting.Where can I get gas with out the ethanol in it?Asks the driver of the big silver bomb? (Aka... Professional fuel delivery driver.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I was. Or im trolling. Your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Where can I get gas with out the ethanol in it?There's some website that lists a few around central Ohio. Most are at boat docks, for old boat engines.http://pure-gas.org/The list for Ohio shows 19 places with fuel that ranges from 87 to 93.http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OHFrom this previous thread:http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=61239There used to be a fuel station on I-70 here in Columbus that sold 93-96 racing fuel. People stopped there on the way to National Trails. I think it's long gone now...and also:http://www.buyrealgas.com/ Edited June 24, 2011 by ReconRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 The list for Ohio shows 19 places with fuel that ranges from 87 to 93.http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OHInteresting. Dayton Sam's Club is on that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSB67 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I would say that there is no way that gasoline can weigh 9lbs per gallon, but there are enough people in this thread arguing stuff they really don't know all too much about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 There's some website that lists a few around central Ohio. Most are at boat docks, for old boat engines.http://pure-gas.org/The list for Ohio shows 19 places with fuel that ranges from 87 to 93.http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OHFrom this previous thread:http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=61239There used to be a fuel station on I-70 here in Columbus that sold 93-96 racing fuel. People stopped there on the way to National Trails. I think it's long gone now...and also:http://www.buyrealgas.com/The reason I was asking is cuz we have been asking for it from our distributors and we keep getting the same answer back from distrubtion hubs that there is no way to get it. I have an air field that I take to who would prefer no ethanol fuel and I have been trying to figure something out for them. The other stations have to be getting it from somewhere outside the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I would say that there is no way that gasoline can weigh 9lbs per gallon, but there are enough people in this thread arguing stuff they really don't know all too much about.I know quite a bit about fuels. Its been my family's business for 3 generations now. I have seen a few things. But im no expert like some lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 The reason I was asking is cuz we have been asking for it from our distributors and we keep getting the same answer back from distrubtion hubs that there is no way to get it. I have an air field that I take to who would prefer no ethanol fuel and I have been trying to figure something out for them. The other stations have to be getting it from somewhere outside the state.if you look at that list, it has a lot of Marathon stations on it. Perhaps one of the Marathon distributions will sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Funny thing is most stations use the same terminals as our trucks. So something isn't adding up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I would say that there is no way that gasoline can weigh 9lbs per gallon, but there are enough people in this thread arguing stuff they really don't know all too much about.No fuel that I know of has a density of 9 lbs/gal US. (1078 kg/cu meter)That's close to the density of anti-freeze. (ethylene glycol).The highest I know of is Quadricyclene at 985 kg/cu meter.Gasoline is 702.5 kg/cu meter.this isn't counting mil-spec exotics that don't exist yet or notbut that would be closer to rocket fuel anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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