Places at where I won't be eating any longer

[chevysoldier]

the owners have every right to enforce such a rule at their establishment.

If you don't like it, then feel free to vote with your dollars, but the only difference between today and last week is that you have alternative businesses to patronize who don't share the same fear as those restaurants.

choice is a good thing.

Yes they do have the right to not allow CCW in their establishment.

What kills me is they don't realize that the "bad" people that are carrying now and drinking are still going to be doing the same while the people that are out following the law are the ones that will be victims!!

This is the truth. If "no gun zones" worked, we wouldn't have had Columbine or Ft. Hood...

Oh please... All you friggin dinner tough guys? Why the hell would someone need a gun at dinner? When was the last time you were eating dinner and needed a gun?

PLUS, if no one has a gun, then why the hell do you need a gun?

I'm not sure where you guys were raised or where you hang out, but the only place I think I need a gun is 1 at home to protect my family or 2 walking around the freakin ghetto actin like an idiot.

When was the last time you needed a fire extinguisher? Do you keep one in your house? When was the last time you needed your seat belt? Do you wear one in your car? Also it's more the fact of the gun getting stolen from your car and then some criminal has a loaded firearm. Or the fact you stand a better chance of getting jumped walking from/to your car. The "no gun" sign doesn't mean no one has a gun. Tell that to Nikki Goesner who is a spokesperson for allow guns into alcohol establishements. She watched her husband get shot and killed by her stalker because she wasn't allowed to carry her CCW at the bar. She was working as a DJ and couldn't even carry it. People get shot and killed everywhere. No place is safe. Heck, there was a little old lady a while back shot and killed in the parking lot leaving Sunday church.

[Dubguy85]

Yes they do have the right to not allow CCW in their establishment.

This is the truth. If "no gun zones" worked, we wouldn't have had Columbine or Ft. Hood...

When was the last time you needed a fire extinguisher? Do you keep one in your house? When was the last time you needed your seat belt? Do you wear one in your car? Also it's more the fact of the gun getting stolen from your car and then some criminal has a loaded firearm. Or the fact you stand a better chance of getting jumped walking from/to your car. The "no gun" sign doesn't mean no one has a gun. Tell that to Nikki Goesner who is a spokesperson for allow guns into alcohol establishements. She watched her husband get shot and killed by her stalker because she wasn't allowed to carry her CCW at the bar. She was working as a DJ and couldn't even carry it. People get shot and killed everywhere. No place is safe. Heck, there was a little old lady a while back shot and killed in the parking lot leaving Sunday church.

I'm not saying bad things don't happen to people. I'm sure you can find an instance where it would have been nice to have a gun. I also bet you can find just as many instances where 2 people have guns and they both start acting like idiots and either both get killed or 1 gets killed because they were being tough guys... Or some innocent person gets killed. You can play the what if game all the time

[Meanie]

Wow.. Great story.

not 99% ... 99.999999%

So why get in a car, fly in a plane, leave the house? Holy crap, might as well just lock yourself in a room and never come out

[Pokey]

Thinking you are safe anywhere these days is a false sense of security. Shootings in churches, restaurants, schools, walking the streets.......etc are becoming more and more prevalent due to the meth-heads and unemployed. And as far as businesses that don't allow weapons in "legally", I have little respect for them. There is nothing gained by them banning guns in their establishments, and a person whom is CCW isn't going to be known doing so. Blame the media for such false bullshit and propaganda concerning gun toting citizens, yeah this is the wild wild west and we are just a bunch of redneck outlaws.Signs will go up and signs will go down, just give it time. I respect all opinions on the matter, and will not get into a pissing test with those that differ in opinion from those that are like minded like me. Great job OHIO, you are starting to get with the program!!!!! One more thing to add........most CHL holders would not engage into a situation that isnt putting them in harms way, we are not law enforcement. When you have to make a judgement call, well that is exactly what it is and you can't always prepare for how you may react. I like having the option to protect myself and others if need be, and it is also my 2nd amendment right.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Pokey

[Dubguy85]

haha.. sorry.. not trying to be a dick.. There are just to many what ifs.

[jblosser]

First of all.. I'm not trolling.. I'm just saying if you go out to dinner you don't need a weapon.

I said I *thought* you were trolling, until you continued on in the same vein and I realized you weren't.

Second.. I'm not saying you NEED one at your house, but if someone is breaking in random houses than it wouldn't be a bad idea to have one.

I mis-read that post - I thought you had one at home. My mistake.

Third I wear gear on the track because its a track policy and also that most people on the track crash at some point.. most people who don't go to dinner need guns to protect themselves.

Like I said, poor analogy. At least you don't think you're invincible on the track, and even if the rules weren't in place you'd still wear gear. You're not invincible out in public, either. You stated (unless i'm getting confused in my Alzheimer's-riddled cranium) that it's happened to someone you know. I sure as heck don't ever want to need to use a weapon, and I don't normally frequent areas of town where I feel unsafe, but stuff happens everywhere. Again, to each his won.

Fourth I never said guns wouldn't come in, but if someone brought one in, then you could bring yours in too then right? I mean.. If its just that easy...

PLUS, if no one has a gun, then why the hell do you need a gun?

That's what I took your post to mean - "no one has a gun" to me means, umm, no guns will ever come in, good guys or bad.

As to "the race / ccw" analogy that someone posted up: If their father/grandfather refused to go into a white's only place due to their belief that they should allow anyone in - that blacks (to use the term of those times) were OK people - maybe those of us that won't frequent no-gun places are standing on our principles - that we are just as good of folk as those that don't carry.

Edited September 30, 2011 by jblosser
'vein', not 'vain'. me fail engrish? that's un-possible...

[chevysoldier]

This boils down to the sheep and the sheep dogs.

Dub did make a good point about it being like the lottery and you having a one in a million chance of winning or it happening. But because of the odds millions of people play the lottery every day. There is always that chance.

Its your first amendment right to feel the way you do but its my second second amendment right to do what I do. And no matter what way you look at it the second amendment right is what has defended and to this day protects all the rest of our rights.

Except when you win the lotto, you're winning some money. You're not gambling with your life.

[Dubguy85]

Either Andy is trolling really' date=' really well... Or he's completely living in some fantasy world that I've never visited.

Carry, don't carry... bu don't make a folly assumption that a criminal won't shoot you because you aren't armed and just hand over your wallet. It has nothing to do with being a tough guy. It has to do with not being a dumbass.

I am 100% for private establishments to post any signs they choose, btw. Even if it involves raceial discrimination.[/quote']

Come on Pauly.. don't give me that much credit.. I can't troll that well.. But seriously somewhere in the middle.. I mind my own business when I go out and if someone wants my wallet and pulls a gun fine they can have it.. If I'm in an establishment and get randomly shot, then it was a bad luck kinda day...

I'm not naive about real world, but also think some gun owners get a little bit carried away with their ccw stuff, so its fun to poke a little.

[Dubguy85]

Except when you win the lotto, you're winning some money. You're not gambling with your life.

True, you aren't the lucky winner, u are the loser of that game.

But odds are still odds

[jblosser]

...so its fun to poke a little.

Keep poking, get shot by irate gun-toting paranoid right-wing extremist...

Kidding, of course.

Mebbe we can agree to disagree - I have to get back to working, lunch is over, dammitall.

[chevysoldier]

I'm not saying bad things don't happen to people. I'm sure you can find an instance where it would have been nice to have a gun. I also bet you can find just as many instances where 2 people have guns and they both start acting like idiots and either both get killed or 1 gets killed because they were being tough guys... Or some innocent person gets killed. You can play the what if game all the time

For one thing, you are not discerning between those with a valid permit, and those carrying illegally. Those of us with permits know the risks of violating the laws and the consequences are usually greater for one with a permit.

[Meanie]

haha.. sorry.. not trying to be a dick.. There are just to many what ifs.

I didn't think you were trying to be a dick. I'm just amazed at naive you seem to be. I just hope nothing pops the bubble on the dream world you seem to be living in.

I don't leave my house thinking that I'm going to get robbed, assaulted, or attacked. I carry my gun so I am prepared in case I need it.

[Dubguy85]

Keep poking, get shot by irate gun-toting paranoid right-wing extremist...

Kidding, of course.

Mebbe we can agree to disagree - I have to get back to working, lunch is over, dammitall.

there is no fun in that...

Plus.. We didn't disagree.. I welcome people to carry guns.. Just don't be afraid to eat in a place where they don't allow them!

[Dubguy85]

I didn't think you were trying to be a dick. I'm just amazed at naive you seem to be. I just hope nothing pops the bubble on the dream world you seem to be living in.

I don't leave my house thinking that I'm going to get robbed, assaulted, or attacked. I carry my gun so I am prepared in case I need it.

Well carry away! It doesn't bother me one bit.

[Sniper_308]

Come on Pauly.. don't give me that much credit.. I can't troll that well.. But seriously somewhere in the middle.. I mind my own business when I go out and if someone wants my wallet and pulls a gun fine they can have it.. If I'm in an establishment and get randomly shot, then it was a bad luck kinda day...

I'm not naive about real world, but also think some gun owners get a little bit carried away with their ccw stuff, so its fun to poke a little.

What would happen, if that person that wanted your wallet, shoots you? There is no turning the clock back on that. You need to always protect yourself.

[jblosser]

there is no fun in that...

Plus.. We didn't disagree.. I welcome people to carry guns.. Just don't be afraid to eat in a place where they don't allow them!

Not afraid, it's the principle of it. Same as the race thing. Back to work for realz now...

[Dubguy85]

What would happen, if that person that wanted your wallet, shoots you? There is no turning the clock back on that. You need to always protect yourself.

What would happen if they wern't going to shoot you, and then you pulled a gun and then they felt threatened and shot you?

What if we what if'd all the time?

[Meanie]

there is no fun in that...

Plus.. We didn't disagree.. I welcome people to carry guns.. Just don't be afraid to eat in a place where they don't allow them!

no one is "afraid" to eat in them. We are saying we won't based on the fact that the owner put up a sign stating no one with a valid license to carry a firearm is permitted in his establishment. The sign "prevents" law abiding citizens from entering the establishment while carrying, but does nothing to stop criminals from carrying a firearm in.

To me that's like saying I'll take my chances with the criminals, you people with your back ground checks and fancy permits scare me.

edit: there is really no way to stop someone from carrying a gun into a restaurant or bar, or store. But putting up a sign stating someone that has taken the coarse and completed the back ground check is not allowed to enter while carrying a gun is just dumb.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Meanie

[shittygsxr]

When you dont carry, CCW is a big deal. The first few times you carry its like holy shit I am walking around home depot with a gun on me. After a few times you don't even think about it. It becomes habit, and when you go to grab a bite to eat and there is a sign on the door, why would you chance it? Do you leave your gun in your car? These people are taking the gun very seriously and not letting it out of their sight.

The odds of getting robbed or held up about are very small maybe 1 in 10,000 but I like the odds of 0 in 10,000 better

[chevysoldier]

What would happen if they wern't going to shoot you, and then you pulled a gun and then they felt threatened and shot you?

What if we what if'd all the time?

If someone pulls a gun on you, would you feel threatened for your life? At that point, looking down their barrel, do you know whether they will shoot you or not? Where would you say the odds are?

[Dubguy85]

When you dont carry, CCW is a big deal. The first few times you carry its like holy shit I am walking around home depot with a gun on me. After a few times you don't even think about it. It becomes habit, and when you go to grab a bite to eat and there is a sign on the door, why would you chance it? Do you leave your gun in your car? These people are taking the gun very seriously and not letting it out of their sight.

The odds of getting robbed or held up about are very small maybe 1 in 10,000 but I like the odds of 0 in 10,000 better

True it might be 0 in 10,000, but

I wonder what the statistic of "Would have gotten robbed and thats it, but pulled a gun out and now I got shot"

I'm not trolling, thats a serious question.. U freak someone out by pulling a gun, they might just pull that trigger..

U never know what the person with the gun is thinking.

[Dubguy85]

If someone pulls a gun on you, would you feel threatened for your life? At that point, looking down their barrel, do you know whether they will shoot you or not? Where would you say the odds are?

No idea.. Thats what I'm asking..

Yes, Id feel threatened, and give them what they wanted.. Odds are shooting you isn't their priority.. Taking your stuff is..

But when you pull a gun shooting you might be a priority..

Thats a serious question.. I bet its a toss up.

[Sixgun]

Dubguy the issue is your mandating (like minded people then legislate them) your beliefs on others. That's why people feel so strongly. No different then the "I don't need an scary gun (assault weapon), so you don't need one either.

Curious, how do you feel about smoking in bars and eating establishments?

[chevysoldier]

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.

...

[Pokey]

Or........we could just carry in as usual, like anyone is gonna find out anyways? It is highly unlikely anybody would know I was carrying my 380, now anything bigger would be more difficult to conceal. I see it as no different than carrying my wallet, and the more you carry the less it becomes a big deal. I choose not to carry into an establishment that bans weapons, but I reckon there are those that do anyways. This whole gunbuster dilemma will go away eventually, I will just bide my time and play the game until then.