Electricians here? Need advice

[Gump]

I have two power meters. 1 for house, 1 for garage. Eliminating the one on the garage. I ran the huge 3 individual 200 amp wires from house to garage underground about 100'. Bought a 200 amp box for the garage. No real issue there. But , in the house I have a 200amp main breaker panel that feeds the 100amp sub panel that mostly feeds the house. The lugs arent big enough to hook this 200 amp wire up to. Not sure if they make a 200 amp breaker that will fit in the Murray box. I just need a pass through basically from entrance cable feeding the house or box to tie the big ass wires I ran to the garage.

Might have to break down and call an electrician.

[max power]

Doesn't make much sense. Got pics?

[pocar]

pics would help. but lets see if we can clear this up some. so you have 200amp panel in the house that feeds a 100amp sub also for the house.

or

you have 200amp breaker disconect that feeds two 100 amp panels for the house. also for sub panels you need 4 wires to be up to code. 2 120 volt, 1 neutral and 1 ground. also grounds and neutrals must be seperated in sub.

anyway if you have 200 amps at house and are going to the garage with 200amp that is over kill. you should only need 100amp at garage unless you have a machine shop or somthing in the garage and if so your better off keeping the second meter.

Edited December 19, 2011 by pocar

[Gump]

200amp panel in house that feeds a 100amp sub also for house. The below is the garage. I bought a 200 amp box for this, everything will hook up. See the big 3 wire(4/0 alum) in the bottom left. That wire I ran underground in conduit about 70 feet to the house. The white shielded wire currently comes from the meter on the garage. I don't want a meter for the garage because it currently run the well pump and a small amount of garage stuff and costs $20 even if I don't use it. Also the bigger reason there is a telephone pole in the middle of my driveway and then another with a transformer on it on the side of the driveway.

Below is the 200 amp panel in the house. The wires are too big to connect to the lugs of a 100 amp breaker and they don't seem to make a breaker with bigger lugs or a 200amp breaker let alone what in the world I should connect the ground wire to in the box. No zoning where I'm at but electric company said they'd want me to use the big ass wire since the distance is 100' and I'd like 200 amp service in the garage since I'm planning on rebuilding someday with a bonus room.

See the big black entrance wires that the house runs off of at the top. My new wires are the same. I'm hoping they make some kind of lug jumper or something and I could splice in the wires I ran to the garage.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Gump

[jporter12]

Looks to me like the ideal setup would be a a box right off the meter for the junction to separate them there. I'm not an electrician, so I just tossing out ideas from what I have worked with (seen others do) in the past.

[bmwnut]

first of all you need FOUR wires going to the garage

second of all you need to hook the garage to a breaker in the house panel maybe 100 amp of 150 if you can buy one kinda pricey

third it might be time to hire a professional

fourth wheres you #4 ground wire

fith box not bonded

i see at least two other violations

Edited December 19, 2011 by bmwnut

[Gump]

Thanks. Not arguing but how could I need four wires? There's only 3 coming from the electric company. I can ground at the box in the garage it's the same thing? Bond the main panel or the sub panel? I remember something about that but not which one.The meter box is grounded to the neutral coming from the power company. I can't hook the garage wires to a 100amp breaker, that was the plan and now the problem the lugs aren't big enough to accept the wire?

Edited December 19, 2011 by Gump

[pocar]

yea you would need a breaker at the house. you cant come off of the main lugs on the house panel. ive found some murry 200amp beakers on line but im not sure on what panel you have. im more familiar with square D.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_71958-1318-MPD2200_4294965047__?productId=3182951&Ntt=200+amp+breaker+boxes&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__4294965047__s%3FNtt%3D200%2Bamp%2Bbreaker%2Bboxes&facetInfo=Murray

http://www.electricsupplyonline.com/prod/murray-breakers/mpp2200kp_w021772.php

the fourth with would only be from garage to house panel. hook to ground bar on house panel. also really you would need a groung rod driven at garage to secondary ground.

also in the house panel you should have a #4 ground wire coming from a ground rod and one from where the water pipe enters the house from the street. unless you on a well then two ground rods. in your main house panel the bar on the left on the bottom of panel is the ground bar.

Edited December 19, 2011 by pocar

[Gump]

Thanks. They are all Murray panels. No pipes to hook to. Electric company said they didn't care since their neutral is also tied to the ground rod outside the house. It's all the same once bonded if you ask me but that's another topic.

That electric supplyonline breaker is what I need. Not liking the $1700 price though.

[pocar]

lol 1700 is alot how big is the garage going to be after the bonus room. most houses 1500sqft and smaller are 100amp. for a garage thats enough. they want you to run the big wire because of voltage drop. get a 125 or 150 amp breaker and call it a day.

[Gump]

I agree 100 amp is fine i only updated to 200 amp in the house because of the heat pumps emergency heat. It ran the the heat pump fine for 6 months we just didn't wire in the second set of heater coils. 100 amp would be fine.The wires too big to fit in the breaker though? Same problem in the garage the wires wouldn't fit in the lugs in the 100amp box as an entrance wire so I just bought a 200 amp box. Hope i can find a breaker with big lug holes. Or i just trim back a couple of strands of wire and make it fit the lugs?

[Gump]

Problem solved. Found a 200amp plug in that looks like a breaker but is not and a big lug for the neutral

[max power]

Make sure you have someone there with a phone in one hand and a video cam in the other.

Don't attempt that shit alone.

[Gump]

I's a profesornal. I just turn off the main 200 breaker and it's all dead.

[electrode]

So what are you going to do with the feeder to the panel in the garage? First you must bring the wires into the panel. Since you installed conduit, pull a ground to the garage panel. if I were you i would consider using a 100 amp breaker in the main house panel to feed the garage panel and trim the wires to fit. I think the biggest breaker you can buy for the house panel is a 100 amp. you will likely exceed the bussbar rating of the main panel if you go bigger than 100 amp.

Please properly ground your main panel as stated before.

[Gump]

I have 200 amp panel for the garage ill hook up.I'll bond it and reconnect the ground rod that's out there. don't need a ground wire from the house. There's 2 hots and a neutral feeding the garage.The panel in the house is 200 amp that feeds the garage. The wires that feed the garage will be on the main 200 amp breaker then on another 200 amp breaker in the garage. The electrical shop guy said the breaker looking thing I got was for just this sort of thing. I'll post a pic.

[jporter12]

BUT... You'll have the potential for a 200 amp load to the garage, on top of all the stuff in the house, from a 200 amp panel.

[Gump]

But everything pulls through the 200 amp breaker in the house before it goes anywhere in the house or to the garage so it would be impossible to pull more than 200 amps without blowing the main 200 amp breaker.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Gump

[jporter12]

Gump's pics.

I didn't know they made those. Nice.

[Gump]

Me neither. Glad they do. Picked up at a local electric supply house. Actually walked in and put my hand on it amongst a dozen other bags of breakers while I was telling her what I needed and it was what I needed. Got lucky.

[electrode]

The circuit feeding the garage panel is considered a "feeder" and not a "branch" and must have a ground wire to the panel. Also a ground rod at the garage which you have.

NEC. 250.32 requires separate structures supplied by feeders to have a grounding electrode conductor.

[electrode]

The installation that you describe would not be safe. In the installation that you describe, the ground bus is connected to a ground rod, but not to the electrical system neutral. This means that you don't have 'an effective fault current path'. A ground fault probably wouldn't trip the breaker, and would instead simply energize the ground rod (and all metal connected to the ground bus).

Since you are not permitted to bond to the neutral in more than one location (under current code), you must have separate equipment grounding and neutral conductors. under previous versions of the code you were permitted to use the neutral as the effective ground fault path for certain detached structures.

[Gump]

Thanks but i'm slightly confused. Ok so here is an awesome schematic...The garage panel at the bottom I wrote not bonded but shouldn't it be bonded? I take bonded to mean the metal box connects the nuetrals to the grounds or a ground but everything's connected anyway. Everything else I have seen is, or basically neutrals and grounds have two paths to an actual ground (ground rod) and to the electric company neutral, which the neutral/ground wires all go to the same place. I have not hooked up the garage panel.

[bmwnut]

add a #4 ground wire to the garage ground bar and bond the house panel and add a #6 to sub panel as it is not grounded do not bond[tie netural and ground] any subpanel seperate all neturals and grounds to there bars should be good the garage 200 amp is now just a switch as your overcurrent protection is the house main

Edited December 21, 2011 by bmwnut

[Gump]

Thank you. I can't seperate neutrals and grounds in the house sub-panel. there's no way and the bars are connected to eachother but I will add the ground rods. What do you mean add a number 6 to the sub-panel? House or garage and #6 ground wire?