Storing loaded in safe

[Scruit]

If you want to keep a loaded clip in the AR

Wouldn't that jam it? I'd rather use a magazine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazine_(firearms)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_(ammunition)

Edited December 9, 2012 by Scruit

[Pokey]

I see no reason to have a round chambered, or ammo in a magazine unless that weapon is close by and accessible very quickly. To me a shotgun or a pistol are the only loaded weapon options for defense inside the home, both have much less chance of making it through the walls as well. Doubt fireman are worried or thinking about ammunition going off in a house fire, but I will ask my good buddy that is a fireman.

[Scruit]

The clip mag issue is really important to some guys. Not sure why.

Those of use who learned firearms handling in a military setting were not allowed to make that mistake. Ever run around the base holding a Lee Enfield .303 above your head?

I was certified on:

- Lee Enfield .303, (5-round-clips, loaded into an non-detachable internal 10-round magazine).

- .22 version of the Enfield, while I was on the cadet shooting team

- L1A1 SLR (Semi-auto FN FAL) (20 or 30 round magazine)

- L98 A1 GP (Single-shot variant of the SA80) (30 round magazine)

Never got a chance to be ceritifed on the the GMPG (jimpy) or the Bren.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Scruit

[Tonik]

What's the best oil to use in my bike?

At least that debate is quantifiable. This debate is not. You don't know where you are going to be when the bad guy comes in or where he is going to come in at. And many of you are picking scenarios to prove your point or disprove someone else's without taking into account that your plan fails in other scenarios.

I think casper has a t-shirt for all of you.

Loaded on your hip is the only place to keep a gun if you want it ready when you need it. Anything else provides a lesser level of protection, better than nothing but lesser none the less.

Now if you will excuse me I need to gtfo of this Skyline and get my weapon out of my car. I feel nekkid.

[swingset]

I keep none chamber-loaded in the safe for many of the reasons outlined...if I have time to get in there, the 1 second to chamber a round won't make any difference.

The cook-off worry is secondary and not much of a concern. If the safe is that hot, the contents are in serious trouble....as are the stores of ammo in there.

[Scruit]

I see no reason to have a round chambered, or ammo in a magazine unless that weapon is close by and accessible very quickly.

I can get to a loaded guns in under 15 seconds from any place in the house. Quick enough?

[Pokey]

Yup that is quick, and I wouldnt worry about a fire setting off the ammo either. Like Swingset said, if fire is that hot to set off the ammo, the guns are as good as gone.

[Scruit]

What's the best oil to use in my bike?

At least that debate is quantifiable. This debate is not. You don't know where you are going to be when the bad guy comes in or where he is going to come in at. And many of you are picking scenarios to prove your point or disprove someone else's without taking into account that your plan fails in other scenarios.

I think casper has a t-shirt for all of you.

Loaded on your hip is the only place to keep a gun if you want it ready when you need it. Anything else provides a lesser level of protection, better than nothing but lesser none the less.

Now if you will excuse me I need to gtfo of this Skyline and get my weapon out of my car. I feel nekkid.

Can't have the gun on my hip while I'm asleep. It digs in.

[Kyle Hunter]

I do not like the idea of having ammunition in a safe at all. But your situation is not the same as mine and you are looking for information and/or opinions so that you can make an educated decision for yourself. With that said, a safe serves multiple of purposes you must factor in the likelihood of a multitude of scenarios. I am most fearful of fire, if you feel a fire isn't as likely as needing a loaded firearm then a loaded firearm in the safe may be the better option for you.

I am under the impression that if it gets warm enough in there for one round to "cook off" then the rest will follow in a chain reaction. But I am base this on a theory that I have not tested however. That theory is that as the temperature of the primer increases the stability of said primer will decrease. Does anyone know this to be accurate? If it is accurate, it seems to me that the first round cooking off would be enough to set the rest off resulting in damage inside the safe. Or if you have enough ammunition in the safe, and it is sealed tightly enough, it could possibly turn into a bomb of sorts if the rounds all cook-off simultaneously. Believing the possibility of that I would rather keep my firearms in the safe and the ammunition in a separate location.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

I'm curious about 556 penetration in sheetrock.

[Scruit]

I'm curious about 556 penetration in sheetrock.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

[Tonik]

Can't have the gun on my hip while I'm asleep. It digs in.

I use utp holster when I'm sleeping.

[Kyle Hunter]

Yup that is quick, and I wouldnt worry about a fire setting off the ammo either. Like Swingset said, if fire is that hot to set off the ammo, the guns are as good as gone.

Primers will go off at under 500*f, I think most firearms will be fine at that temperature, some plastic may melt but I believe my AR would withstand being baked at 500 degrees for hours and still function, the ammunition would not.

I'm curious about 556 penetration in sheetrock.

Depends on the bullet, is it XM193, SS109, M855?

Edited December 9, 2012 by Kyle Hunter

[JohnG]

Those of use who learned firearms handling in a military setting were not allowed to make that mistake. Ever run around the base holding a Lee Enfield .303 above your head?

I was certified on:

- Lee Enfield .303, (5-round-clips, loaded into an non-detachable internal 10-round magazine).

- .22 version of the Enfield, while I was on the cadet shooting team

- L1A1 SLR (Semi-auto FN FAL) (20 or 30 round magazine)

- L98 A1 GP (Single-shot variant of the SA80) (30 round magazine)

Never got a chance to be ceritifed on the the GMPG (jimpy) or the Bren.

Ah, see your point there, I guess. We didn't have weapons with stripper clips.

For what its worth - I was certified on .45, shotgun, M-14, M-60 and 50 cal. And if you haven't figured my "era" yet, I also qual'd with a bloop gun, M79 grenade launcher if someone needs to google it. I won't even bother with the shit I did as a kid on the small bore team, that was too long ago to bother with.

Sorry if this all hi-jacked your thread. You boys have fun now, I'm out.

[Pokey]

Primers will go off at under 500*f, I think most firearms will be fine at that temperature, some plastic may melt but I believe my AR would withstand being baked at 500 degrees for hours and still function, the ammunition would not.

Depends on the bullet, is it XM193, SS109, M855?

I wouldnt want to test that theory.

[speedytriple]

I only keep my handguns chambered. My long guns stay unloaded in the basement. The handguns are in my bedroom if not on my hip.

[Pokey]

I only keep my handguns chambered. My long guns stay unloaded in the basement. The handguns are in my bedroom if not on my hip.

Good way of doing things.

[speedytriple]

Well with four young boys in the house i keep mine under lock down. My boys are all very good around my fireatms. But they are still to young to trust.

[TSB67]

maybe it's just me but I don't think anyone that calls a magazine a clip has enough knowledge to argue gun safety with Scruit or anyone else for that matter.

Seriously, this shit again? I try to call it a "clip" to piss off the internet snobs. If I ever say "magazine" by mistake, please reprimand me then.

[vf1000ride]

I love the whole clip/mag debate. Only because I have guns that break the rules as to why things are called what they are. As for the loaded in the safe thing. I keep several guns in my safe loaded. They are all empty chambers though. I had considered the result of a fire strong enough to defeat the rating on mine. I have rifle ammo that will punch holes in 1/2inch of armor plate, the roof of my safe is no where near that strong.

[Kyle Hunter]

Lets put it this way. If we are fending off zombies or the chinese and you holler for me to toss you a clip, I am going to toss you a clip. Now you are yelling, WTF is this? And you are two steps away from being bit or stabbed. In those vital seconds when the enemy is bearing down on you did you want a clip or a magazine?

I love the whole clip/mag debate. Only because I have guns that break the rules as to why things are called what they are. As for the loaded in the safe thing. I keep several guns in my safe loaded. They are all empty chambers though. I had considered the result of a fire strong enough to defeat the rating on mine. I have rifle ammo that will punch holes in 1/2inch of armor plate, the roof of my safe is no where near that strong.

Which ones break the rules . . . what exactly are the rules? I know how to tell most of the time a clip from a magazine, such as in the following:

Call a spade a spade.

[vf1000ride]

Which ones break the rules . . . what exactly are the rules? I know how to tell most of the time a clip from a magazine, such as in the following:

.

That picture helps complicate the issue for most people. The garand is what I was referring to in my comment. Sure, out of the gun a garand enbloc is by definition a clip. The problem is that once it is inserted into the rifle it becomes the magazine. The garand rifle has no other means to store ammo internally for use other than the enbloc. So in all reality it is both a clip and a magazine.

[Scruit]

That picture helps complicate the issue for most people. The garand is what I was referring to in my comment. Sure, out of the gun a garand enbloc is by definition a clip. The problem is that once it is inserted into the rifle it becomes the magazine. The garand rifle has no other means to store ammo internally for use other than the enbloc. So in all reality it is both a clip and a magazine.

Die heretic!

Don't mind me. I'm came for the leg-humping and got lost. Where am I again?

[cOoTeR]

Depends in where I am at the time. If I'm watching TV in my den and someone starts to kick in my door then the basement safe is closer and quicker to get to than the bedroom safe and I can get to it without being visible from the door.

I keep them in a safe because I have a child, so leaving loaded guns around the house is baaad, m'kay? I can access each safe in just a few seconds, all keypads.

Not gonna make a stand in the basement - no other way out. Plus there's no way to be sure my family will all be close enough to "gather" before the BG gets in, so my wife is trained in gun handling and shooting too. No matter where we are, we're always closer to a loaded gun than anyone who tries to kick the door is is to us.

Didn't realize you had multiple safes in your house. I understand the child issue and having a newborn I've been thinking about that a lot. I prefer the shotgun as a home defense gun but that's personal preference. Awhile back someone posted a link to a setup mounted to a bed with a vehicle style gun lock. I'll probably go that route along with a lockable drawer in a nightstand that's unlocked at night. I use my safe for storage but most of my handguns are loaded in there. While I'm awake and around the house I have my duty gun either on me or pretty close.

As far as the rounds going off in a fire the way I've understood it to be like is if they are not in a chamber there is nothing to direct the blast. So the bullets do more of a case splitting than firing. Could it hurt someone well anything is possible. The fire fighters most likely won't be in the house unless there are other people to get out or they have the fire pretty well contained and feel its safe to enter.

If your concerned about one extra round pay for a larger magazine then you won't need to worry about the chambered round during a fire. Or store it upside down.

[Scruit]

Didn't realize you had multiple safes in your house. I understand the child issue and having a newborn I've been thinking about that a lot. I prefer the shotgun as a home defense gun but that's personal preference. Awhile back someone posted a link to a setup mounted to a bed with a vehicle style gun lock. I'll probably go that route along with a lockable drawer in a nightstand that's unlocked at night. I use my safe for storage but most of my handguns are loaded in there. While I'm awake and around the house I have my duty gun either on me or pretty close.

As far as the rounds going off in a fire the way I've understood it to be like is if they are not in a chamber there is nothing to direct the blast. So the bullets do more of a case splitting than firing. Could it hurt someone well anything is possible. The fire fighters most likely won't be in the house unless there are other people to get out or they have the fire pretty well contained and feel its safe to enter.

If your concerned about one extra round pay for a larger magazine then you won't need to worry about the chambered round during a fire. Or store it upside down.

The pistol rounds won't make it out of the safe. Even if they do they'll speed off into an empty field. Plus I don't want to have to rack/load and unload every time I touch them (putting them on for CCW etc). The less handling, the safer.

The shotgun is mounted in a quick-release mount facing upwards on the top floor - no risk there.

I'm actually going to remove the round from the chamber of my AR - it's the only firearm with the power to shoot through it's own safe, and for that bullet to be travelling in a dangerous direction. If I can't get it done with 30 rounds of 5.56 then I don't think the extra one will help much.