Good place to find used aftermarket shocks for a 919?

[8Rider6]

If this is in the wrong section, feel free to move it, wasn't sure if it should go here or Tech and Tips, or Part Shop.

So, even since I got my '02 919, I've been a little disappointed in the handling, and that's coming from a Bandit 600 which isn't exactly the sharpest handling bike.

The first corner I took hard (in my neighborhood after getting back from WV where I bought it) caught me a little off guard, felt like the rear end bounced some, and the rear end has seemed uneasy ever since if I take a corner a bit aggressively, never felt that with the Bandit.

Now, I can adjust the suspension (pre-load only I believe) with a spanner wrench. It's currently on the 2nd to last position (#4), stock is #2, so it may be too stiff. I am heavier than most (I assume) riders though, 220lbs no gear, with my riding gear around 225-230, so I would almost think having it on the #4 position would make sense for me.

I've been looking into aftermarket shocks and the Penske 8900E looks like a good option. However, this is $500-650 new... I really don't want to spend that on a shock, so I'm looking to see if I can find a decent one used, at least that will be a big improvement over the stock. Ohlin would be nice, but those are something like $1,200 to $1,400 new... Not gonna happen, lol.

I don't really want to spend more than $200ish. This is my street/commuting/touring/all rounder bike. I'm possibly going to get another bike to track with, so I don't want to put a ton into the shock on this one.

I will be doing all new tires, and chain & sprockets relatively soon (next 2-3 months probably), so it may make sense to do the shock at the same time while I have the rear wheel off.

I don't really know about about how shocks fit from one bike to another. I hear about people taking shocks from GSX-R 1000's and using them on other bikes, etc, but I don't know what to look out for and how to tell if it will work in a 919.

Edited January 20, 2013 by 8Rider6

[jporter12]

Paging ReconRat...

[Hoblick]

a CBR 954RR shock should be a swap in shock.

that will give you some adjustability.

but id definately get the sag set on the big as well, you may be to heavy for the spring, or you may just need to add some preload.

if it feels loose and bouncy in the corners, then most likely there isnt enough preload on the spring, or you are to heavy for the spring.

[ReconRat]

Mine gives rear wheel hop under hard braking, at lower speeds. Stock setting in rear on stock shock (I think, I'll look again.).

I'm 170, and it isn't too bad, I just avoid fast transitions to hard braking.

I've not had anything like that at higher speeds or hard cornering.

Which makes me think my front is diving too much/too fast perhaps.

Mine is a 2002, and the front springs/fluid give me the impression they need help soon.

My front suspension clanks a "top out" going over speed bumps.

I think I have read on 919 forums that a 954 rear shock can be reworked to suit.

04+ 1000RR uses the same shock with same compression and rebound. One inch longer. I don't think it fits.

900RR is 1.35 inches longer.

There are a lot of different part numbers on 919 rear shocks. Not sure what for.

I see one guy swapped to a 2005-2007 919 rear shock. This looks easy.

The early 919 rear shocks were kinda funky, I think. My 2007 does not hop like that.

edit: I haven't pushed the 2007 as hard as the 2002. So not complete data.

I think the early rear shock used a 1200#/in spring, and later models use a 875#/in spring.

Ohlins or Penske shock on rear is option, but expensive.

Try setting rear at 5 or 6 (stiff). I was going to change mine and see what it does.

Front end is easier. Swap 2005-2007 parts onto it.

F4i or RC51 front ends work, I guess.

Racetech up front for your weight and fresh oil might be improvement.

http://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/f94/919-suspension-upgrades-24144.html

http://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/f94/here-it-is-my-new-old-919-shock-23727.html

http://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/f94/919-specifications-maintenance-tips-and-how-tos-24916.html

http://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/f94/2004-919-fork-and-shock-setup-for-track-use-31210.html

http://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/f94/another-shock-possibility-23562.html

Cycle World published a basic adjustment for it years ago. Might try to find it.

A careful setting of sag, front and rear, might bring it around.

Edited January 20, 2013 by ReconRat

[Tpoppa]

Ah...the Honda 919. Fatastic motor, the suspension was...well not fantastic.

The 02-04 919 shock was a pogo stick. IMO, it was poorly matched to the fork springs and created some 'interesting' handling characteristics. The 05-07 919 shock has different spring/valving and is an improvement. I replaced the shock on my 02 919 with one from an 07. It's a direct swap. It was better...still not great, but better.

A shock from a CBR600F3 will fit (F4/F4i shocks are too long). The F3 shock is fully adjustable, I believe it is 2 or 3 mm longer. I bougt an F3 shock, but sold the 919 before I got around to indstalling it.

If you want it, I'll give you a deal on a clean shock from a '98 CBRF3 and a Honda 919 OEM service manual.

[Moto-Brian]

Few things here...

Going into a corner and the rear bouncing is most likely a soft front and the front is diving too much and causing the rear to get unloaded and THEN you probably have issues with rebound. Therefore, you most likely need to get the front sorted AS WELL as the rear.

Here's a thing to consider. Say you do replace the rear shock and get something more capable of being tuned. The front then is a weak link. Too often, I find guys buying a shock and no front work or putting in cartridges in the front and a stock rear. The machine needs balance. You cannot do one without the other. You can fix one end and only suffer at the other.

Consider this - buy a good used shock and AT MINIMUM, fix the front with springs and fluid. You really owe it to yourself to have a basic cartridge kit installed. You can get a 25mm Ohlins kit or GP Suspension kit for about $300. Add $100 for springs and get the front dialed. Buy a good used rear or even a CBR1000 shock as mentioned and get it refreshed. You really need to plan on spending about $1k total and you'd get new and updated components.

You can buy an older shock like an F3 shock, but realize the nitrogen is most likely needing replaced and coming from a guy who raced the F3s back in the day and had RaceTech revalve and respring the stock shock, they are pretty much shit. You'll be ahead to buy a CBR1000 shock if you can, but you run into two things with the notched pre-load. No fine tuning and typically, the nitro needs recharged. Might as well buy a used Penske, man...

[ReconRat]

Well, I was going to ask about that F3 match up, but I think I'd rather look for a 2004-07 rear shock for my 2002 and work on the front suspension instead.

Even the 2005-07 front suspension with it's adjustability, is way different from a non-adjustable 2002-04 front suspension. A lot smoother everywhere. I definitely feel the difference.

edit: stock rear shock details:

2002-03 was the same

2004-06 was different

2007 was changed again

2002-03 52400-MCZ-641 $638.70 discount price new

2004-06 52400-MCZ-D11 $617.91 discount price new

2007 52400-MCZ-D31 $651.37 discount price new

If buying used, check part number. People will sell the 2002-03 shock as if it's a newer unit.

Edited January 20, 2013 by ReconRat

[ReconRat]

Upgrading to new 2007 front fork assemblies would be 483.84 discount each - 967.68

There are only seven parts that are different from the 2002.

The two most expensive is the spring and the damper.

Spring is probably going to be aftermarket anyway, and not sure about the damper.

Each fork for all seven parts is 254.03

Each fork minus the spring is 211.88

Each fork minus the spring and damper is 54.68 in parts

So the question is, can an old damper be reworked for an upgrade.

edit: answer; not likely

Edited January 20, 2013 by ReconRat

[8Rider6]

Argh, I find it hard to believe they would have put suspension this bad in a bike like the 919.

The rear shock I'm moderately confident I can handle, but when it comes to the fronts, I feel like I'd be hesitant to attempt since you'd have to take all the controls off, take the forks off, etc, or am I thinking this is more difficult to do than it is? How much would it cost to have that done (new springs, cartridge kit and fluids)?

I'm almost debating if it'd be better to sell the bike and get something with better suspension than put that much time/money into it, but at the same time, it is "mine" and I've already put quite a bit into it, enjoy it, plus they're fairly rare.

[Tpoppa]

If I were updating the suspension on an 02 919...I would do the F3 shock or a shock from an 07. The 02 forks are undersprung and underdamped and would benefit from heavier fork oil and stiffer springs. That would.be the most bang for your buck. You could spend more, but before I got anything from Ohlins or Penske I would look at another bike with better stock suspension.

[ReconRat]

Front forks aren't that bad to work on, but sometimes not fun the first time.

How about, get Tpoppa's F3 shock, pull the front forks, and drop it all off at a shop the guys recommend for a rebuild? Updating the front forks to 2007 status as an option.

I dunno about all that bad stock for a UJM. My front forks were fine till this last year. They were good for 10 years with no maintenance. And like I said, I can live with the stiff spring on the rear shock. Of course, I only have known 1960s, and 1970s bikes to compare it to. I have no experience with truly modern suspension.

Edited January 20, 2013 by ReconRat

[8Rider6]

Consider this - buy a good used shock and AT MINIMUM, fix the front with springs and fluid. You really owe it to yourself to have a basic cartridge kit installed. You can get a 25mm Ohlins kit or GP Suspension kit for about $300. Add $100 for springs and get the front dialed. Buy a good used rear or even a CBR1000 shock as mentioned and get it refreshed. You really need to plan on spending about $1k total and you'd get new and updated components.

You can buy an older shock like an F3 shock, but realize the nitrogen is most likely needing replaced and coming from a guy who raced the F3s back in the day and had RaceTech revalve and respring the stock shock, they are pretty much shit. You'll be ahead to buy a CBR1000 shock if you can, but you run into two things with the notched pre-load. No fine tuning and typically, the nitro needs recharged. Might as well buy a used Penske, man...

Hmmm, how would either of these do?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-10-Honda-CBR1000RR-Rear-Shock-at-LKQ-MotorSports-/150978057036?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2326fe534c&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-07-HONDA-CBR1000RR-REAR-SHOCK-suspension-spring-damper-CBR-1000rr-2006-2007-/290809805295?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACBR&hash=item43b59d79ef&vxp=mtr

Looks like they don't include the reservoir... Could I use one from my stock shock or is that not an option?

What used Penske's would work besides the 8900E? Doesn't seem like I can find a used 8900.

Is the F3 shock really that bad? If it would be a fair improvement over what I've got it may be worth it, but if I could get a used 1000RR for not much more, or a Penske for not much more than that...

[modular]

Here is a reasonably priced option for an Ohlins:

http://www.indysuperbike.com/Ohlins_Street_Performance_Shock_Honda_CB_900F_Hornet-7111278.html

[Tpoppa]

Mine gives rear wheel hop under hard braking, at lower speeds.

Which makes me think my front is diving too much/too fast perhaps.

Few things here...

Going into a corner and the rear bouncing is most likely a soft front and the front is diving too much and causing the rear to get unloaded and THEN you probably have issues with rebound.

Those descriptions pretty much match my impression of the 02 919. The shock was oversprung and underdamped. The forks are underdamped and undersprung. It gave the bike an unbalanced feeling. Under moderarte braking the forks would dive and unload the rear end. Just barely touch the rear brake and at would break loose and want to swing around from side to side.

The forks were the real problem, the rear shock compounded it.

Argh, I find it hard to believe they would have put suspension this bad in a bike like the 919.

It was a parts bin bike. Honda built it from existing parts off the shelf. Just like the point of the Honda 599 was to burn through CBR600F3 replacement parts.

It was a good bike for commuting and riding at a relaxed pace. The motor is absolutely fantastic. The suspension just didn't like spirted cornering or braking.

As mentioned above, I swapped the stock shock for an 07 919 shock. I also installed 10mm longer spacers in the forks (old school/hillbilly preload adjustment). It was better, not great but better.

Next, I was going to upgrade to the F3 shock and add stiffer fork springs and thicker fork oil. Next after that would have been Racetech Emulators. It would have been about $200, $350 with the Emulators.

I think that would have been a night/day difference in the handling. But, I got a deal on another bike and wound up selling the 919 before I got that far with the suspension mods.

[wantahertzdonut]

8Rider6- If the bike is truely "yours", you won't have trouble rebuilding the forks. They come off easy and you may need a special tool here or there, but if they're anything like the Bandit forks, any special tooling can be bypassed with a little creativity. (speaking from experience)

See if your library has a Haynes book for the 919. Thumb through it and look at the fork disassembly and then make the decision to do it. Get a friend if you need to, or one of your fellow OR members in Columbus may be willing to help you out. It'll save you a bunch of cash and you'll feel good knowing you modded your bike by yourself.

Once you do that, get whatever fork you can afford. Penske would be the best, but if you can't afford one, find something you can. The F3 fork may not be perfect, but going by what everyone is saying, it's better than what you have now.

You have a good starting point in the 919, making it great is up to you. Get your wrenches and get to work!

[Tpoppa]

Hmmm, how would either of these do?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-10-Honda-CBR1000RR-Rear-Shock-at-LKQ-MotorSports-/150978057036?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2326fe534c&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-07-HONDA-CBR1000RR-REAR-SHOCK-suspension-spring-damper-CBR-1000rr-2006-2007-/290809805295?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACBR&hash=item43b59d79ef&vxp=mtr

Looks like they don't include the reservoir... Could I use one from my stock shock or is that not an option?

What used Penske's would work besides the 8900E? Doesn't seem like I can find a used 8900.

Is the F3 shock really that bad? If it would be a fair improvement over what I've got it may be worth it, but if I could get a used 1000RR for not much more, or a Penske for not much more than that...

I was not aware that a CBR1000RR shock would fit on a 919. I'm not saying it won't fit, but that wasn't a known option when I was looking into it.

Those 1000RR shocks have onboad (rather than remote) resevoirs. Not an issue as long as you have enough clearance. You would also need to verify the eye to eye length is compatible along with the spring rate...

[ReconRat]

From above: 04+ 1000RR uses the same shock with same compression and rebound. One inch longer. I don't think it fits.

One of the wrist twisters links shows pics of how a guy did it. It required cutting a hole for the reservoir clearance, and heat shielding near the exhaust. Seems like too much work to me.

[8Rider6]

From above: 04+ 1000RR uses the same shock with same compression and rebound. One inch longer. I don't think it fits.

One of the wrist twisters links shows pics of how a guy did it. It required cutting a hole for the reservoir clearance, and heat shielding near the exhaust. Seems like too much work to me.

I was not aware that a CBR1000RR shock would fit on a 919. I'm not saying it won't fit, but that wasn't a known option when I was looking into it.

Those 1000RR shocks have onboad (rather than remote) resevoirs. Not an issue as long as you have enough clearance. You would also need to verify the eye to eye length is compatible along with the spring rate...

Alright, so it looks like that's a "no go" with the CBR1000 shock... That leaves the F3, or getting a Penske or Ohlins for the rear, F3 definitely appeals more price wise and I *won't* be racing this bike, but I would like it to be able to hold a line on "aggressive" cornering on the street, my '96 Bandit 600 did it well enough for me, I don't see why this couldn't with a bit of modding.

8Rider6- If the bike is truely "yours", you won't have trouble rebuilding the forks. They come off easy and you may need a special tool here or there, but if they're anything like the Bandit forks, any special tooling can be bypassed with a little creativity. (speaking from experience)

See if your library has a Haynes book for the 919. Thumb through it and look at the fork disassembly and then make the decision to do it. Get a friend if you need to, or one of your fellow OR members in Columbus may be willing to help you out. It'll save you a bunch of cash and you'll feel good knowing you modded your bike by yourself.

Once you do that, get whatever fork you can afford. Penske would be the best, but if you can't afford one, find something you can. The F3 fork may not be perfect, but going by what everyone is saying, it's better than what you have now.

You have a good starting point in the 919, making it great is up to you. Get your wrenches and get to work!

I do already have the OEM Honda manual for my bike the previous owner gave me when I purchased it. I do find it lacking in detail in some areas though. Things like changing the oil, adjusting the chain, taking the rear wheel off for tire changes, etc I'm not finicky about doing, but I feel like I'm in uncharted territory when it comes to much more than that (have bled and refilled the front brake lines too). At the same time though, I would like to learn as much as possible working on my own bikes.

I suppose the next 2-3 months is the best time to do it while it's still Winter, only problem is I've done all the work on my bike at my brother in laws place since he has a garage, I don't (keep it in a Cycleshell). I'm not sure if he'd be ok with keeping it there possibly weeks at a time during this process.

As far as:

Once you do that, get whatever fork you can afford. Penske would be the best, but if you can't afford one, find something you can. The F3 fork may not be perfect, but going by what everyone is saying, it's better than what you have now.

You mean fork internals or replace them completely? I'd like to keep things "as cheap as possibly" because I was planning on picking up a second bike around April for track days at Mid Ohio, but my tax refund should help quite a bit... I suppose I could budget $1,000 to taking care of both the front and rear suspension, but keeping it to around $500 would help (so obviously going with an F3 rear shock at over an Ohlins or Penske).

As far as fork internals, what's most important, and what's going to make the biggest difference: springs and fluid vs. emulator kits vs. cartridge kits, and how are each set up for the riding once installed? Do you need special equipment to have it configured/set up according to your weight, etc?

[wantahertzdonut]

I've found OEM manuals don't help much with this sort of thing since they seem to be written with the expectation you to have some experience with repair and only use the book as a quick reference.

Most of what I learned came from the Haynes books for my bikes, but after a quick search on Amazon it would not appear there is one available for your bike. But looking at Hornet shocks, they appear to be similar in construction to the forks that I've disassembled. Basically there's only a small screw at the bottom of the fork that hols the sliders to the top tubes, and you'll either need an air ratchet or a special tool (read: jammed broomstick handle) to secure the internal nut. Undo that bolt and the forks seperate completely. It makes more sense if you can get a diagram of their construction.

About what I said about the shock (I know I said fork, I meant shock), get the F3 if that's what you can afford. A rebuild may be spendy, but if the F3 has the adjustment you're after, it's a good start.

In regards to the forks, Tpoppa said it best. Install stiffer springs and heavier oil, and add emulators. That's all I did to my track bike and what a difference! I'm not sure what adjustability you'll get, but you should get something that's better spring than what you have now.

Changing springs and oil requires no special tools, just the means to get your front wheel off the ground to remove the forks. On my bike, once they're off, all you have to do is unscrew the cap at the top of the fork and then drain the oil. Springs come out and you can upgrade at that time if you wish. Replace with heavier oil and reassemble.

[8Rider6]

In regards to the forks, Tpoppa said it best. Install stiffer springs and heavier oil, and add emulators. That's all I did to my track bike and what a difference! I'm not sure what adjustability you'll get, but you should get something that's better spring than what you have now.

Changing springs and oil requires no special tools, just the means to get your front wheel off the ground to remove the forks. On my bike, once they're off, all you have to do is unscrew the cap at the top of the fork and then drain the oil. Springs come out and you can upgrade at that time if you wish. Replace with heavier oil and reassemble.

Seems fairly simple. I think I'll give that a go when I get a chance.