swingset

Gee, that's all new shit that I haven't heard about 9,000 times....mostly opinion and conjecture. Bowl me over.

So explain Switzerland. Every single man between 18 and 40 has an Stg. 90, fully automatic assault rifle in his home. That's more assault weapons per capita than anywhere on planet earth, even here in "gun obsessed" US of A. How many deaths there per year by guns? Wanna take a crack at Israel while you're at it? Their teachers carry guns. How many school shootings in the last decade? If it's the guns, then it's a petri-dish that will absolutely support your assertion. If it's not the guns but a culture of violence that has nothing to do with the tools themselves, then Switzerland and Israel will be low violence, low-firearm deaths....and low in every other kind of violent crime rate too while ours stays high (both in guns and other measurable means....mostly confined to poverty and drug-ridden inner cities). You wanna just go ahead and admit you're wrong? You are. We all know it. You know it. Wanna be a man and take some intellectual steps towards maturity?

What problem? I've never committed a gun crime, shot anyone, aimed my gun at anyone, nothing. My guns have never been in the hands of criminals. They're locked in a safe, never had one stolen. I'm not part of any problem. The problem is violence, and I'm not violent. Could you two get together and come up with a cogent fucking point? Why not just agree that guns scare both of you and leave it at that? I'd accept that. I wouldn't try to talk you out of it either. It's the delusion and prescription for society that I'm gonna tell you is fucking loony tunes. Be honest with yourselves first. Let's try that.

Because it was a lame attempt, wasn't even original, and you and the fucktard that created that picture don't even understand where the joke came from and use it for a hackneyed, half-assed attempt at an insult. Here's the problem, you're mentally somewhere down around the kids my daughter goes to school with, from what I can see..slow and clumsy...emotional and histrionic. You've politicized and emotionalized this issue, because that's what children and pants wetters do when they fear things and can't rationalize those feelings yet. That's fine, people do that, except your talking to an adult with a lifetime's experience in matters of firearms and self defense and trying to best me at a game you fucking suck at. If you want to do something other than flap your gums and make the same flacid arguments I've heard from hundreds of hoplophobes before, then bring it. So far, your platform consists of "guns are icky and make bad things". Brilliant.

14 year old boy shoots armed intruder, saving his three siblings. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/23/phoenix-boy-14-shoots-armed-intruder-while-watching-three-younger-siblings/ ETA: the kid that died from that 700 was the victim of negligence, if the 4-rules of gun handling had been observed, even a malfunction of the safety would not have resulted in injury or death. That gun still had to be handled, while loaded and aimed at the brother, while the safety was disengaged (and that should have never happened). Guns ain't the problem, but we've been over this before. Even a broken gun won't aim itself.

14 year old boy shoots armed intruder, saving his three siblings. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/23/phoenix-boy-14-shoots-armed-intruder-while-watching-three-younger-siblings/

It's great that you use a tired and innacurate meme. The guy in that picture is playing a character, he's a member of a gun forum I belong to, and is a normal looking guy that makes funny videos. He's a vet and a hell of a firearms instructor....and I'm pretty sure he'd wanna shit down your neck just for your childish, emotional blathering. See his trigger finger? Even when he's playing a clown with a wig on, he's exercising trigger discipline because he's not really a dipshit. Hard for you to see that, I recognize. Catch the irony there? You fail at everything, now even your cut-n-paste-fu is in the turd pile. Wanna go for the triple crown?

That's quite a smackdown...do you want to take the obvious shot? The penis-compensation one or are you saving that for a grand salvo? You're an internet gladiator, I'll give you that. Would you like to explain to everyone who has saved themselves or their families from violence that they should be dead? Works both ways. You see guns as inherently imbued with evil, I see them as tools. I suppose you think people who have medical insurance and fire extinguishers are pussies too...living in fear. Oh, but guns are weapons. So, then people who die at the hands of their abusive husbands fists aren't dead because only weapons kill. Hands, afterall, can never be used for anything malicious. Hands and blunt objects kill more women every year than guns, btw. Those dick-beaters of yours are the tools of pussies. Based on our interactions, I have formed a complex mental image of the thoughtful warrior I'm locking horns with. This is generous, you might not be this smart looking but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. You have an awesome evening, sport. You're everything I've come to expect in an Obama voter.

BTW, if serpent's anti-gun world existed, and we had no guns the paralyzed man in Johnstown would have just had to lay there while his attacker did as he pleased, crushed his skull with a hammer, or stabbed him, or maybe something even more civilized like light him on fire or make him watch his wife get raped and stabbed to death like the college kids in Boston a few years ago. Home invaders would face no opposition, and would choose their victims by physical dominance. Women, the elderly, short people, handicapped....all prey to young, strong men in groups. Because it's the guns, you see, that's the problem. That's why Switzerland is the most violent place on earth. Stupid ass liberals. Wade through knowledge their whole lives and end up in Retardville.

I have no point? Are you fucking blind? Already gave you all the info in this thread, but you come up with this position? According to Gary Kleck's peer-reviewed research, there are about 1,500,000 defensive gun uses per year (adjusted over nearly a decade of research and data). You can not quantitively state how many lives would be saved by that number, as the end result of the conflict was often stopped before a death occurred, but assuming it's only a tiny fraction, it's still way fucking higher than the total number of gun murders....most of which are gang & drug related, black on black shootings in the inner cities. 9,369 murders by guns in the United States. Taking that FBI-provided statistic into account, you're far more likely to repel violent crime with a gun than ever die by one...unless you're a gang-banger who's dealing drugs. I say that, knowing full well you're terrified of guns and suffer from being unarmed. So, in that case you'd likely meet your demise without the tools of self defense and I'm sure your last thought will be "well, I'm sure glad I was unarmed". Or, maybe you can have a second to spare and dial 911 and summon a man to visit violence on your attacker on your behalf, and congratulate yourself on your civilized attitude, having neither the courage or determination for seeing to your own safety, but expecting someone else to take the risk and responsibility for you. That's very noble. Take your histrionics and fear and find someone stupid to lay it on, because it's not going to make a dent with people who have actually studied this issue and have some first hand experience.

She's outshooting me now, and that sucks.

He wanted attention it sounds like, if he was a typical spree shooter he wouldn't have broadcasted his intentions to his supposed victims when focus on this issue is at a zenith. He also never hurt anyone, just spouted off. Not a shot fired. We have no clue whether he would have ever done it, either. Stupid? You bet. Typical gun owner? Not even close. He could have just made a pipe bomb and killed all his co-workers without a gun. But the gun is the bad guy, I get it. How about a local man, paralyzed and bedridden, who uses his gun to defend himself? http://www.newarkadvocate.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012207230302 You post me a bad apple who shot his mouth off, and I'll see you with someone who is alive because they were prepared and armed. Got anything else that's supposed to make us feel bad about guns?

True that. Speaking of perception, here's my daughter when she was about 10 during a plate match. To the uninformed, the gun-fearing, the emotional idiot (you know who you are)...it's a little girl shooting a dangerous "assault rifle". That's some people's default, because they see a small girl holding a scary black gun with vertical grips and tactical optics. The truth is, and what's really happening is she's shooting a semi-automatic .22lr rifle that she is very safe and proficient with, absolutely the same in function and lethality as this: Actually, that Marlin is more deadly...as it has a bigger capacity...but I digress. My kiddo is also not there alone, she was surrounded by adults and children under strict supervision on a closed range, and all of the children are taught strict gun-handling rules and closely monitored for safety. Their targets are foam plates, their goal is accuracy and fun. Their reward is satisfaction, competition, relaxing time spent with their mothers and fathers on a nice fall day. (proud papa says she came in 3rd that day in ages 10-12, out of 15 kids...on her first match ever). Why does she use an AR15 style .22? Because it's ergonomically great for kids. Small grips, collapsible stock, light and adaptable...quickly switchable for many configurations, even for me to use. It's a great tool, that does everything well. I suspect that's why it's the most popular weapon sold, not because it's being bought for millions of spree shootings. It's fun. My daughter is now 16, and is an accomplished smallbore shooter. Ask her what guns are to her, and she'll tell you they're her sport. She's not got a violent or reactionary bone in her body...she still has teddy bears on her bed, but she enjoys the discipline and focus of shooting. It's her zen time, where she gets to do something she excels at. That's all, she has no interest at all in defensive or combat shooting, and that's fine she's still a kid she's got parents who watch out for bumps in the night. For her, and most gun owners, the joy of owning a gun isn't in the destruction or potential violence it's just a fun hobby...that also serves a very old survival instinct that was so important that our nation was built upon it and included it as the second most important right for the government to never impose upon. It's not even really about militias, it's about survival. The oppression of tyranny, even by the own words of the men who wrote the constitution isn't just from the King of England. It can come from the police, from a criminal, from a mob. Ask the blacks of the KKK south about tyranny. Ask Matthew Shepard about tyranny. It's not just for shooting at armies, and that's why the 2nd says "the right of the people" and not the "right of the militia" or the "right of the standing army". It was meant so that all of us can survive, if we have no other means and have exhausted all other methods of obtaining freedom from an oppressor....whether that's a corrupt local police force, or a criminal, or even a kid with red hair and a joker obsession. If you look at my daughter and see violence, or future criminal, or anything other than a little girl having fun with her dad, your lenses are broke and your bias is seeing something that isn't there.

Pointless point is pointless. Making weapons more difficult to come by only impedes people whose motivation to do harm is negligible. If you want to murder someone (which is a very very big thing), or engage in armed robbery, or commit a spree killing, getting a gun through even moderate hassle like theft is a very very small thing. This is why in countries where guns are very regulated (Mexico) they're still used in robberies, killings, and gang-violence. The culture of violence makes them a commodity. In Switzerland, where they are rampant, gun violence isn't even on the radar. Why? It's obviously not the presence of guns, every adult male has an assault rifle in his house and guns are a national past time. It's not availability, it's not the "gun culture", it's the culture of violence. Not the tool, it's the man. This is why in countries like Japan where guns were never really readily available, they can still be obtained if the need is great enough, but the violence will happen regardless of the tool (baseball bats, swords, knives, claw hammers). The only people who will not jump through difficult hoops are those who have a moderate interest in obtaining a gun, or those whose need is the least...and that's not a criminal. You reason like a child. Yet, you're very dogged. So, I both admire your tenacity and shake my head at your inability to understand basic human nature or the lessons of history. Your solution to gun violence is to make them voluntarily disappear so there's no more gun violence. This doesn't negate the violence, it only changes the nature of it and skews it towards the young and the powerful, and makes the victims all the more helpless. And, it's about as utopian and blissfully naive as wishing for unicorns and fairies.

Well, seeing as I have a safe full of guns that do nothing at all other than recreationally target shoot and are used in competition regularly, I reel off all kinds of things guns can do that have nothing to do with harm or violence. Last week my daughter and I shot a father/child silhouette NRA match together. I'm confused, was she supposed to be intimidating or threatening the targets? But, the real purpose of a gun is to rapidly project a piece of lead. Nothing more. It's intent is utterly dependent on the user. If I have malice in my heart, it's to intimidate or harm you. If I am benevolent and kind, it's to defend you. If I'm a target shooter, it's to put holes in paper. If I'm a collector, it's to invest in the worth of an inanimate object. If I'm a hunter its.... Well, you get the point. Or, obviously you don't get the point because you're either a: stupid as fuck or b: predetermined to see only evil in a piece of metal. It has to be one or the other. So, which is it?

Actually, you are right and I was going off of memory but when I read the Knox Report that detailed this it said "obtained illegally" and not "stolen". Just re-checked the magazine I read it in (sitting next to my shitter, hehe). Given that straw sales, or possession when barred (felons, Lautenberg act folks, etc), under-age possession (family) plus theft that explains the majority number....but I concede I was wrong it is not stolen although the end result is nearly the same...people obtaining guns who are otherwise in violation of the law for doing so. Legal gun owners are not committing the violent gun crimes. My data sucked but my point stands.

http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx Spree stopped by a gun. I blame our gun culture.

Where do the majority of our gun crimes come from? The overwhelming majority? Gun-obsessed NRA members? Gun collectors? CCW instructors? No, inner city minorities and drug violence. You want to change the culture but you're focused on the wrong culture. You have a hangup with people who own and enjoy guns, namely those who are reacting to the politicization of their rights....completely avoiding that you're much more likely to meet violence from a 17 year old black kid with a stolen gun than from me with a legal AR15. Majority of guns used in crimes? Stolen. Most frequent type? Cheap 9mm. The real ill, the real danger, is the shit culture and failed WOD that skews the debate and everyone is afraid to tackle because it involves the sacred cows of welfare and race. Remove those peaceful folks from the national statistics, and our gun violence rate is right there with the European countries everyone holds up as a beacon of sensible gun laws....and us without the need for such gun laws, because with a country awash in guns and "gun culture", we're as peaceful and non-violent as industrialized countries can be....all except for the drug and gang violence fucking it all up, and that has shit all to do with me and my AR15. As long as more people use guns to protect themselves than harm, and that's been the case for the last 100 years (even to include women, minorities, the elderly and gays), the "gun culture" is no such thing. It's a culture of victims and predators, and you're asking for us to abandon the most effective means of keeping a predator at bay and relying on fists, knives, and cell phones. That doesn't work so well for women, elderly, the diminutive, etc. Guns ain't the problem. The ghetto is.

Prison is perhaps the most controlled environment in our society as far as weapons and contraband goes. Anyone have any doubt whatsoever that knives, drugs and even guns make their way in? And, what doesn't get imported gets improvised or made, or stolen, or corrupt workers provide. Just an example, but these laws are fruitless. The only societies without guns still have violent crimes, rapes, murders, even spree-killings (Japan ricin attack, Swiss bank bombing ring a bell?). And, the most peaceful societies are homogenous and industrious. Their safety is more of a byproduct of their culture than weapons or the lack of them. Disarming free people is the fool's way of creating peace. It only ever disarms the wrong people.

Well, let's look at this objectively. We know that his quad, and other property was stolen while in MJ's shop. MJ admits this. We know it was secured poorly. MJ admits this. We know that they did not contact the OP to tell him his property was stolen, but instead let him come in to the shop to hear this. This seems to be in no debate. It's likely they never filed this with the police, or if they did much later than after discovery. I looked myself for a theft report, and there isn't one after the fact. We know that MJ didn't immediately turn this in to their insurance, either, or offer to make this right from the outset, as they should have. I doubt this thread would exist if that had transpired. They also could have easily come here and defended themselves if any of this was in error, or there is more to it and they are still free to do so. As a local business, it would behoove them to maintain their online reputation amongst potential clientele. If there's a defense for MJ in this, I'm perfectly willing to hear it. I don't think anyone, Buildit or myself has any prejudice or want in seeing something bad come to a business that's being unfairly slandered. That doesn't appear to be the case here, at all, from what's been laid out.

Yeah, I read that, and I also read the statement from the company that sold him the tac vest, and it's not armor. If he had armor on, its whereabouts or origin are unknown. I take the initial reports as the flaming speculative bullshit that they are. Much of the early reporting has been wrong.

That ship sailed about 100 years ago. We are awash in guns, there's a gun for every person in America. You going to uninvent them? Hell, you can make one with a 3D printer and a lathe. Let's use our grown up rational brains and think about this issue in America. Oh, btw, those bordering countries that smuggle guns in Europe? They have draconian gun laws too...so much for restrictive laws, you just explained why. Even if such loony, unconstitutional (shall not be infringed means something) restrictions were in place, it would only impair normal, law-abiding people from having access to sporting and self-defense weapons, and drive the gun market into the underground....where criminals already obtain the bulk of guns used in crimes. This would just skew the problem and give criminals more power and carte blanche to do what they'll do anyways. Given that we can't do a mulligan on our 2nd amendment and gun culture, it's wiser to educate and arm those who would rather not be victims. This, at least, has a historic record of saving vastly more lives than are ever taken (See Kleck and Lott studies). The AW ban of 94 didn't work, didn't impact crime, we know this (CDC study). Try again.

Glad to hear it's looking like a positive outcome. Damned shame it had to come to this...just awful way to run a business, IMHO. I've bought stuff from them and had no problems, but my good experience doesn't explain away the pooch-screwing they did here.

Congrats on the poochie. I'd suggest Diamond dog foods (I get it at TSC or off Amazon Prime), if you're going for best bang for buck. It's very reasonable, cost wise, but a much better food nutritionally than a lot of stuff out there. My lab is finicky and doesn't do well with some foods, but the Diamond stuff he thrives on.

Good points, and you pay more for that security and comfort. My wife cleans houses, just her and her mom as a team. They do it for spare $$, and just for friends or people we know or trust, so there's not much of an issue with theft or insurance....but they're able to do it for much less than a cleaning service, and their clients say they do a better job. So, if you have access to someone who works like that and you trust them, it can save you a lot of money and maybe get you a better cleaning service.