Tpoppa

Are you speculating or saying this actually happened?

Fleeing is illegal, but does not justify the use of deadly force. When a chase puts the public in danger, CPD policy is to break off the chase to end the danger. This policy was not followed. To minimize the potential of public danger, another CPD policy is to limit the numer of chase vehicles to 2 unless specific orders call for more than 2 (there were 59 vehicles involved in this chase, more that 2 were not authorized). The people killed were the ones who created the situation. However, through a series of not following proceedures, misinformation (like shots fired), and a few really stupid moves, the Police were the ones that escalated the situation into a shootout. While the poeple killed were not the most upstanding citizens, police are not judge, jury, and executioner. Police are here to serve and protect the public, even the ones you may find unsavory. If you follow the details of the actual shooting, the police basically encircled the vehilce and shots were fired (by police)...creating a crossfire. MANY POLICE VEHICLES WERE SHOT, BY THE POLICE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CIRCLE!!! An officer seeing bullets tearing through his car, would likely be inclined to return fire, escalating what is already a huge clusterfuck. It's really surprising that police weren't shot and killed by friendly fire. Scary.

So...the 2 people killed were not armed. Mike Dewine is saying Cleveland police are out of control and lack leadership. A local congress woman is calling the police murderers. This should get interesting... http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_chase_and_shooting_scene.html http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/East-Cleveland-Councilwoman-calls-police-chase-shooting-murder

Magz, The thing that bothers me most about you and people like you is you consider your self some kind of of expert on topics where you've barely scratched the surface. That attitude breeds ignorance and prevents any REAL comprehension. You've proven this many times. ...tried to tell a thread full of former military personnel that you understand the mindset of people serving in our military because you have a cousin in the Navy and you talk sometimes (but not for a long time) or some horseshit like that. Your understanding of the mind of military personnel is based on the stories that your killer robot cousin chose to tell you. Great, that paints 0.001% of the picture, but just skip to the part where you consider yourself an expert and refuse to accept any new information from people who have lived it. Ignorant. The comment in this thead about snipers not having courage is another example of ignorance. You know that a sniper can hit a target from a long distance. OK...fantastic...that is 1% of being a sniper, but you've already convinced yourself that you know it all. Snipers display more courage in sniper SCHOOL that you will in your whole life. Just applying to sniper school take brass balls. Being in hostile territory, behind enemy lines, by yourself trying to evade detection to take out a target to untimately save more lives...few men have that kind of courage. Shut your mouth and LISTEN to people that know more than you. If you're lucky, you may just learn enough to put together an INFORMED opinion. And you may just understand why people think your UNINFORMED opinions make you a bad person.

It doesn't take an abundance of courage to post a-hole comments from your cozy chair behind your keyboard. You should find some active military personnel and share your opinions face to face...that would take some courage.

You could stretch it all the way back to 2004. IMO stretching swingarms is for poseurs...unless its for drag racing. And a gs500 is generally not a drag bike.

Most companies charge higher premiums if you smoke.

That's pisising away a lot of money. How much does that add up to in a day, month, year? That would be a payment for a sweet motorcycle.

I haven't consumed caffiene, on purpose, in over 10 years.

The "If it saves just one life" arguement is a dishonest attempt to tug at heart strings after a disaster. It's an emotional arguement that frankly contradicts the constitution. It's dishonest because it's attempting to use a national tragedy to gain a political advantage. If the true intent is to "save just one life" they should be just as driven to outlaw swimming pools, motorcycles, and fire.

The Volunteer School Marshall concept was discussed in some earlier threads (I believe those were limited to school employees, not including neighbors). I think it would be the most effective action to deter and minimize any future disasters like Sandy Hook. It's a very American approach to solving a problem in a 'We The People' kind of way. Volunteer Marshalls would not need to be considered law enforcement. If police cannot respond for 10 minutes...their ENTIRE mission would be as a first responder to provide armed resistance to keep a potential criminal at bey for 10 minutes. I still do not like the idea of teachers carrying in the classroom. I prefer a small group of anonymous (like Air Marshalls) volunteers with access to a weapons safe in a secret location. This would also be the most cost effective solution to our cash strapped education system. Several groups have already offered to provide free weapons training to school employees. You would still need a couple of strategically selected weapons, perhaps a helmet and vest, and a gun safe. I'll bet gun owners and concerned citizens across the country would be willing to donate to puchase this type of equipment for their local schools. Shit...I would donate a gun safe to my kid's school. Of all the ideas I've heard, this would give the best results, IMO. Just the notion that a School Marshall was present would be a deterrent.

I use a professional accountant. He charges what a professional accountant would charge. Bigger refunds + sound tax advice = money well spent.

Well not everything.

...OBAMA. Just like everyone else with no paycheck.

I got a SR22 a couple months ago. Great shooter, feeds anything. I saw a stainless 22/45 in a shop yesterday for a good price.

Assuming a NK rocket had the capabilites to reach the US, what would be the point? It could never get past our missle defense system. The US military response would be harsh. I would not be surprised if Kim-Jong-whoever meets a sudden demise after making such a ludicrous statement.

A well regulated militia?

^^ It's a multi billion $ industry with a price fixed labor market set right at $0. You get credit that you can only spend at the company store. Free market or antitrust?

South Park explains everything http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s15e05-crack-baby-athletic-association

Well this is awkward...still tho.

That idea might just catch on.

Early Americans were rough, tough risk takers. They had to be to leave their established country and try to carve out a life in an untamed land all in search of Freedom from over-controlling federal governments (you know like one we have today.) That was the famed American Spirit that made us a super power and the world leader for damn near anything that mattered. Today, we are a bunch of seat-belt-wearing-sissies & the American Spirit is a commercial for Chevy trucks.

The owner at Stonewall is also an asshole. I don't support their business. Unrelated to being assholes, their prices are the highest in town. Stonewall was the closest range until I moved. I would drive further to go to B&T.

If anything...gun restrictions could potentially lead to civil unrest. But most Americans are too complacent and too detached from our own history to understand the consequenses of letting the very freedoms slip away that early Americans were willing to die for. Everyone should believe this: "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." ― Abraham Lincoln