chevysoldier

How would you define torture then? Let's go to a third party, Merriam Webster:

torture, noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure

True, the act of waterboarding in and of itself does not wound, crush, or burn, however the infliction of intense pain (vis a vis the fear of imminent death via asphyxiation) IS certainly there, as are the motives behind it to coerce information or to punish for crimes already committed.

However, if you wanted to get back to the classics, I'm sure I can borrow a Spanish Boot from the numerous torture museums here in Prague. You can have a few go-rounds with that whilst being waterboarded and we'll see if that changes your view.

Okay, you say it is torture. Thats fine. How would you get sensitive information out of a terroist then? What would you recommend?

OK... so now I'm confused as to what the point was then....

There was no point. That's the point

I'm sorry but I don't follow. What happened? To who?

Stopping distance depends on grade conditions and tonnage, but for shits and giggles we'll just say that it takes about a mile to stop in an emergency application(only used for if we hit a car, person, etc.)

The fuel normally comes to us but there are locations that have big fuel tanks. The fuel tanks are between 3 and 5 thousand gallon capacity depending on locomotive so we dont have to fuel up very often.

:eek:

i used to moon the trains when i was a kid. no joke. dont know why, but i always did.

you're not the only one, and this is annually:

You know perfectly well that's not what I was saying; I don't put words in your mouth, I'd appreciate the same courtesy. The post you quoted was in response to your saying that they'd think twice about messing with us if we mutilated their corpses and dragged them through the street.

I haven't heard anyone on here advocating any of the things you posted in the above quote. All I was saying is that publicly mutilating and humiliating the corpses of the people we call 'the bad guys' wouldn't really serve any of our long-term ends.

Saying I want to give this asshole a job and an education is like me saying that you're advocating slaughtering every last man, woman, and child in the region. It's hyperbole and adds nothing useful to the debate.

As I've said before, I simply think that having a trial which is as objectively fair and transparent as possible will portray us in the best possible light, while minimizing the propaganda value the enemy might derive from any proceedings.

Part of being the good guys means holding ourselves to higher standards than the people we're trying to fight. Being more fair, more humane in our treatment of a defeated enemy, is not a sign of weakness. Knee-jerk brutality most certainly is. Even though the immediate primate reaction might make us feel better short-term, we'll be better served by living what we claim to be fighting for in the first place.

Of course, I'm only speaking of matters off the battlefield, when we're dealing with unarmed prisoners. If they're shooting at you, kill 'em graveyard dead.

We extend prisoners a whole lot more humane treatment than they do for us. We don't drag them through the streets. We don't publicly parade around abusing POW's. Those soldier's that took pictures if the Abu Graib detainee's being abused were wrong and I do not advocate what they did and were punished accordingly. We don't put out propaganda saying "All middle eastern people are the devil, they are infidels and must die. God is great." If a enemy combatant stand before us with a weapon, we shoot to kill. If he drops that weapon he is no longer a threat and we cannot shoot. We are one of only a handful of nations that follow (for the most part, yeah yeah) the Geneva Convention, ROE.

I don't think the trial should be take place in NYC because this isn't just about NYC. What about Flight 77 or Flight 93? What about all the people evacuated in DC? Los Angeles International Airport being evacuated? Or all the terrorized poeple in those areas? This wasn't a crime against the WTC, or NYC, or NY. This was a crime against the USA and should be treated as such. They came into our country's front door, the WTC. This was a crime against our way of life. You want to talk about being fair then it should be held in D.C. since D.C. is kind of no where, it's own entity. Or in D.C, NYC and PA, best out of three sorta way. Military tribunal's don't take years to sort out. How long was Saddam on trial? I don't think it was very long. We put him in D.C, how far are we going to let him drag it out. How many more rights are we willing to afford him. He isn't an American citizen and should not be treated as such.

/End

Yep... I totally missed any jokes... I didn't see any. No smileys, no /sarcasm, no j/k... I assumed you really believe that Obama doesn't have a US birth certificate.

Next time I will clarify.

Why didn't he just come out with the stupid thing in the first place?

so far it worked perfectly for me and justin (jrmmiii).....I guess

if somebody checks my wife out in a bar, I buy him a drink rather than a fight.....so far worked perfectly for my 17 years of drinking life......even in ghetto Bronx gangsta bars........somebody told me "dude you have some nerves and bought me a drink back " who wins......???

so checking out your wife compares to the 9/11 attacks. And your saying we should have been able to talk our way out of the war on terrorism?

Obama: "Please North Korea. Don't fire your missiles."

NK- "Uh yeah right"

Boom boom boom boom boom boom boom

Yep, talking works great. Didn't Clinton try that method too?

I'm ill informed because you're a "Birther"? Really?

lol out of all that, thats what come back with. Sorry you missed that joke.

I am from the land of Gandhi so I will do it better with pen paper and brain !!!

let me know how that works out for you.

And there's where I stopped reading your post....

And this is why you are and will remain ill informed. I read all of your post since you took the time to post it. It's okay, you know how it is so therefore don't need to hear any information that goes against what you think you already know.

Really ?????

http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqtortures.html

Wow. For one thing right off the bat, the pic at the top was from some dumb soldiers that thought it would be funny to take pics. They werent trying to get info at that moment. Those "dont enlist" and dont marry a soldier" parts. If it wasn't for those soldiers and families that died you wouldn't be allowed to say whatever you wanted.

From your link:

"If you are an American soldier, and you are wondering why am requesting that everyone spit on you, read this essay to understand why"

"Today’s soldier kills mostly defenseless civilians and most of them children. He excuses his brutality as collateral damage."

Uhh, no not really. We advoid areas of prayer at all cost so as to minimize the civilians. I'm sure they cared about the innocents in the WTC. They were only trying to take down the buildings.

"In this war, Americans openly use banned weapons such as land mines, napalm, white phosphorus and cluster bombs and they use them on children. In WW II, even Hitler avoided the use of such weapons"

Hitler lined people up in showers and gased them, children and all!

Get your facts straight. Why don't you jion and take up arms to defend your right to find useless shit like this.

but if you go to mcdonalds you'd better order in spanish... or you'll get mc nuggets when you asked for a big mac.... rules don't apply to people with no sense of freedom or fairness...

Exactly.

yes I do

Really? Anyone not muslim is an infidel to them. So swearing on the BIBLE, not the Koran, won't do shit. You think the Bible means anything to them? You'd have better luck swearing them in on a piece of TP.

Oh, yes, I'm sure that would solve the problem right there.

You can't combat an idea by reinforcing it in the minds of the people likely to believe it.

Lets let him live in NYC for awhile, he can get a job, tax free of course. Get educational assistance, for free of course, free heathcare through Obama's plan, we could even pay him as an incentive to change his way. I mean we did kind of ruin his life by throwing him in jail. It's the least we could do.

It's not like no one knows our rules. Commit an act of war and we catch you, you will be tried my military tribunal. So why now is he getting the right to a trial in NYC? Everyone know if you drink and drive and get caught, you will get points/lose your DL. Come in illegaly from Mexico and they can get healthcare and education. Maybe if we stopped doing that, they'd either stop coming here or do it the right way. My grandmother came from Germany with her family. They got jobs, paid taxes, went through the process. We are so intent on making everyone happy and being "fair that we have gone to the extreme and alienated those that do stuff the right way and given way for those who don't abide by the laws of the land to walk all over everyone else. It's bull and if you can't see that you're as blind as a bat. It's not that difficult to understand.

A long court process and details can bring up lots of overlooked info and names which still may be a threat.......a quick trial and execution will not help that.....he will get it anyway......but are you guys worried that he is physically in NYC........come on fear mongers

I never said I thought he was in NY. And if they have tried to get info out of him,which I'm sure they have, do you think by making him swear on a bible will yield more info?

But really, sorry to hear this. Of course hopefully it will make you look really good.

Just keep it unloaded (gun and mags) and in a case then it doesn't matter where it is in your car.

I actually seprate everything. Ammo, mags, and a disassebled gun.

And something else, we have always been the ones to be fair and honorable. Maybe thats why other countries/groups take advantage of us. Mabye if we dragged the dead body of a terrorist through the streets and stuck his head on a pike, they'd think twice about messing with us. But we don't do that. We don't stoop to the level of Somolia, Iraq.....And not being aquitted isn't the point. The ends don't justify the means.

I think the idea is that we would rather not turn this into another recruitment poster for the other side. If they see us railroad him into a military tribunal and swift execution, it might make us feel better, but it gives our enemies someone they can point to and say, "See? Look what America did! No fair trial, they just killed him because they wanna kill all of us!" Then, they gain a useful tool for recruiting and promoting their agenda.

If, on the other hand, we settle for a fair, open, legitimate trial, we remove their ability to use it in that way. Part of winning this kind of fight is going out of your way to be seen as the 'good guys', even if it means being more fair than our enemies would. If we become what we're fighting, what was the point of fighting? While we certainly can't change some people's minds, we can definitely present ourselves in such a way that they'll have a harder time convincing people that we're all evil. If one angry teenager over there sees us behaving honorably and decides he doesn't really need to attack us or our troops, it's a step in the right direction.

And anyway, let's be real-- it's not like he's going to be acquitted.

Umm, they really don't give a shit about being "fair" . And if they want a fair trial, go rob a bank, don't commit an act of war against us. It's not that hard to figure out.

I had the joy of saying that 4 times! Yes I have four boys. And yes I lost my mind awhile ago. LOL! It is a great time though. I have a 2,4,6,8 year old son. And I am 33 years old. So they will all be 18 before I am 50. Congrats on the good news.

:drink:much? lol

me and a buddy were talking about this.... these worthless pieces of shit deserve the firing squad, period. All the legal bullshit that the low life lawyers can come up with to make it look like it was our fault that they attacked us. That along with the bastich that killed 13 at the military base........ we thought, whats the worse thing you could do without maken a marter outta em. How about putting them in jail for life with a bunch a gays? just a thought..............

I'd rather save the bullets and just make them base jump without a chute. And If we put the guy from FT. Hood in jail, that just wastes our tax dollars.

Ok, TARD!!! I got it! I think I clearly pointed out my error in the first post...

So just HOW far can you go on reserve?

Apparently not far enough.

B-A-L-L-O-O-N

And yeah, they were idiots for pulling this stunt. At least make sure your kid is old enough to understand what's going on . Geesh. LOL

Yep, he's our first! Mark and I are excited. I think we've waited long enough. We didn't want people to think our kid(s) are our grandkid(s) if we waited any longer.

I have a 2 year old lil girl. It's so amazing watching them grow up and learn. But remember, how you set the tone now, well after he is born, will determine what kind of person they will be later. Have fun and good luck.

Yep, we've thought about that too. Well more like when he sneaks out the camaro or one of the motorcycles...He's probably already learned that from me by now when I sneak out the vehicles when Mark's at work.

Are you sure it's Mark's baby then? j/k couldn't resist.

Good thing the Wrangler driver reacted quickly. Otherwise it would have been a much worse day for that rider.

That would have ruined the rider's day even more.

Agreed, never move a victim or remove the helmet unless extenuating circumstances require it. IMHO.

More people need to be aware of this.

That looks like it hurt. Without seeing more before the camera started filming, it's difficult to tell what happened.