Mallard

The Northstar is also a 4.6 DOHC and I think it proves that they can be put into compact spaces. (Anything that fits in the back of a Fiero HAS to be tiny tongue.gif ) There is also a lot of potential with boost on these engines (http://www.chrfab.com/) Since an engine is just a large air pump, of course 4V will flow better then 2. The faster and easier an engine can pump the air in and out, the more power it will make. With a DOHC engine you get the advantage from 4V heads, VVT, and because intake runner design is not hindered by a pushrod. Can a pushrod engine overcome these hurdles? Maybe. GM has a way of using VVT on a pushrod engine. That design was shown about 2 years ago. Intake design? With all the CFD programs out now every company is getting better at optimizing flow. GM also has production ready 3V heads for the LS2 which allow the engine to rev to 7000 rom, and Nitrousbird showed the 4V aftermarket heads. Is there anything inherently WRONG with pushrod engine design? Maybe...maybe not. There are many ways to reach an end result and each presents its own design challanges. These could possibly be worked out to prove that either design is equally capable. Oh, and Nitrousbird, I keep refering to the LS2 because it is the state of the art, it is in production, and I had a comparison HP/TQ curve between it and the LS6 that I could post. I think that also shows that there are still gains that can be made in that package.

In the 90's Mercedes-Benz came back to Indy and won...with a pushrod engine. They used a rules loophole for pushrod engines, but I think that proves that they have the rpm capabilities. Also, the LS1 is all aluminum. Cheap materials...huh? They're not cast iron anymore.

Something tells me you're not getting your deposit back.

Nope! I was there. You ran by me while I was sitting on in the Esses...twice.

You forgot pissing. I have 2.0L of displacement and only 170 crank HP. My car sucks then, so you can't use it in that first part.

Put it in a car the price of my Protege and I will.

True, I just brought up the Mod motor because it's probably the most common DOHC V-config. engine that's built for performance.

Well I may have to take you up on that when I get home in October. I'll probably just take a ride in it though as it's not my car. Everything I get to beat on is at work so it's not really someones personal car. As far as this debate: I'm not denying that DOHC motors can make a lot of power, especially with boost. (also 10psi tells me nothing without knowing the size of the turbo) I think DOHC is better for racing, high rpm applications, but so far nobody seems to know why. Everyone keeps pointing and saying "look at this or that car." All I wanted to hear were the reasons: Variable cam timing, better intake runners because you don't have to worry about a pushrod in the way of the best path, etc. However, I don't think the Ford Mod DOHC motors are good because of size/packaging, valvetrain inertia, and cost. I like the pushrods because a small block can be put in any engine bay, mods are ~cheap, they make great power, and the LSx is probably the most technologically advanced OHV engines in the world. Matt- I don't care if the cams are hollow or not,there are 4 of them and they still weigh more then the one cam in an LS2.

What did you say the other week? "You drive a Dodge Shadow so STFU" That may not be exact, but I'm to lazy to look it up and I think you get the gist of it.

01 Trans Am: 32 mpg from New Jersey to Cleveland. Ran low 13's with a whole bunch of suspension mods that hurt drag times.

what about packaging and weight? I have owned and driven both types of engines. Although I've never experienced a DOHC V8 in a proper sports car, only a stock Mark VIII. But I have driven a 2004 Viper, C6 Vette, CTS-V, Mark VIII, 350Z, 240Z, and a bunch of other FWD cars of both configurations. I'd like to get behind the wheel of a DOHC V8 sports car...I'll let ya know when I find one.

Ok Mark, what advantage does DOHC give an engine when it's not utilizing variable valve timing? Are you claiming that the port shape of the DOHC motor is superior to the pushrod counterpart? Is having all that extra rotational mass in the valvetrain really worth it if you're not varying cam timing over the rpm range? Do you think that DOHC is used in racing series because they're better at high rpm's, or do you think the DOHC make them faster? I'd like to hear your reasoning.

buy mine so I can get coilovers.

Buy a bike, or shorten your stroke to the point where you have not powerband until 7000 rpms. Who gives a shit how many rpms the engine turns if you can't use the entire rpm range? *Interesting fact of the day* F1 engines turn nearly twice the rpms's as NASCAR, but they both have the same mean piston speed.

Is 6500rpm not enough? http://64.81.147.40//albums/album50/P4237723.jpg

Shut up nutswinger! better?

um...no. GM's best motor has to be the LS series of engines. The LS6/LS2 has as much to more power as the ZR1, and it's still a small block and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The small block makes more power then the Mustang in a more compact package. You may think pushrods are old architecture, but the LS engines are some of the most advanced engines technologically. Overhead Cam architecture has been around just as long. I'm not comparing the old 2V 4.6 to the brand new LS2, I'm comparing whats currently on sale. Whats the horsepower rating of the MACH1 compared to a Z06? How bout a new Cobra to a new Vette? How much rotational inertia is in your valvetrain?

How heavy is that engine? How many did they actually make in Mustangs? Good try, but that was limited production and didn't sell terribly well. I will give ya this though, the 5.0L Cammer Crate Motor is badass, but it's not production and costs more.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Mallard/Pics/6sfor25k.jpg

Your heads are HUGE You have to spin 4 heavy cams in your valve train. Your engine is heavy as shit. (because of your massive heads) There are 3 and 4 valve heads for pushrod motors. A small block can fit in almost any engine bay, your DOHC needs a VAST amount of space. DOHC technology has been around since the early 1900's, so what's "old tech?" (So have hybrid cars for that matter) If it's so much better then way does a Mustang need a blower to make as much power as a n/a LS2?

With the amount of power he could put out...probably. Plus, he's upgraded everything else in the car so I'm sure that will be the first thing to go.

It's about time that thing got moving. smile.gif

A clean black car > * Here's a pic of my car after some Zaino. http://www.msprotege.com/members/Mallard/Pics/DSC00313.JPG

Hell yes!

They had enough trouble getting the Russian Governments permission to film a car chase there. One of the stipulations was they couldn't go over 35. The camara tricks make it look faster. I heard they could go faster in the tunnel though.