TTQ B4U

okay, so your HSA funding was likely able to cover at least one year of out of pocket and then your insurance kicks in to a point where you were likely responsible for what 20% of the next $10k or so? then at some point you're likely covered 100%. That differences is what your continued HSA funding or savings is for. Yes, you have a responsibility for those bills and insurance picks up the rest. In the end, if you've lost what you said you have, then I'm sure you're well aware that somewhere along the way there were opportunities to save or protect your finances a bit more. You're correct. Everyone paying everyone elses bills isn't what I feel we should have. I won't beat that dead horse. Especailly when everyone has a different idea on what a healthly lifestyle is. I certainly don't need people who earn below the poverty line, are overwieght, drug users or smokers on my tab. Just the same they don't want my bills either. My being in your shoes wouldn't change my mind. My beliefs aren't based on "my situaiton" they are what they are regardless. If my wife or I become ill here's what I know. 1. We have great insurance and have saved in our HSA plan for over 12 years 2. Our insurance and out of pocket are more than do-able for the next several yeras thanks to #1 3. We have savings, investments and cash safety nets that we've worked hard to put in place and sacraficed a lot to insure are there 4. Like you we have familiy as well 5. We accept responsbility for our finances and would immediately implliment a plan to attack the situtation. 6. We would be accountable for our actions and not expect life to roll along in the same lifestyle should a life changing event strike. You would be wrong if you think we haven't had them. My wife had a serious medical situation with the birth of our daughter and I too was released from a job. My daughter was also admited to Childrens hospital age 14 days old. Now I'm not saying something like surviving a serious battle with cancer wouldn't put a serious hurt on us or even evoke a red light plan on our part, but I can't worry about that right now knowing it could happen and crush us. I can instead do all I can to insure we are as prepared as we can be for everything else and in the event of the apocalypes on us, deal with it then. Perfect, but insurance is just that, a safety net policy but it can't be seen as your only means. You have a role too.

I'm saying that if you're in a situation where all that shit has happened to you and in you own words you're still worried that something more could happen because you're not prepared, then yes, I'm saying you should be coming to the greater public for funding your healthcare when you're worried about putting another turbo on a car or something to that effect. If you are in an HSA plan, great. You're responsible for the first how much? How much does Chase fund yearly? How much have you contributed? What's the reason you're in dire straights then? You were in a dual income family at one point right? Did you make a choice to spend both incomes on daily living? Was that your best option or do you think you had options that you might have gone differently if you had a chance? Bill, given your situation as you described to be spending any money on "toys" is NOT a good move nor something I'm ever going to condone is a good move when you in turn want more public assistance. SERIOUSLY? What role you play in getting yourself out of the situation you put yourself in? Nothing happened to you or your wife that you didn't have a chance to head off in terms of savings. Your medical bills are YES, YOUR BILLS man. Come on already. You honestly think you should be able to pass them off on others? This is exactly the reason why Obamacare is a bullshit plan that will do nothing to fix the real problem. By your own account you have a good job, make good money and have an HSA that's funded and your fully insured. So in the end you have bills that you don't think should interfear with your lifestyle as you know it? You do realize that it's going to take a plan to make that happen and a plan whereby you pay them down. I know you know all this and that in the mean time yeah, life isn't going to be all grandure and fun.

Okay but you tell us all you work two jobs to have some toys and see nothing wrong with that statement when combined with wanting others to additional dollars so everyone in America can pay a healthcare premium? I disagree that healthcare is a right. I agree more with the HSA concept whereby you pay the initial XXX Dollars then the benefits kick in. To burden the rest of us with higher premiums and costs (because again, the reality is costs are being passed on) so that the masses can have costs associated with Heathcare can then be covered....and again, costs associated with that passed on isn't fair. You buy what type and level of insurance you can afford and I do the same. Together we each need to be accountable for our own bills. Yep and the taxes you pay aren't likely as high as mine so the system costs do vary based on where you live. I'm sure residents wouldn't want to have all the public system based taxes for Dublin, UA, New Albany or the costs to insure their homes and run their schools spread over the city of Columbus, Galloway and the Hiltop either. Just the same I'm not up to paying for their combined healthcare costs. I make the choice to pay to live where I do and insure my family well and that's a choice I make for my family. Let everyone else do the same to the best of their ability. Incomes vary as do the benefits that go with it. That's life man. The beauty of Capitalism is that everyone has a choice and a chance. Lowering the bar to accomodate those who make poor choices or choose not to work as smart as others isn't the answer. We need to teach accountability and responsibility.

flip side of that argument is also not fair. those of us others shouldn't have to flip the bill in terms of higher premiums for people who have not structured their lives to cover the premiums and or those that don't take care of themselves. I really have no interest in flipping the bill for people with multiple kids, living below the poverty line who smoke and are overwieght. THAT'S not fair. It puts the burden on those of us who are as someone here said "do everything right" I have empathy for what you likely went through during the ordeal, but the reality is that it happened to you and your family and not the world. To expect the world to flip the bill for it isn't fair to them. The reality is you also made choices along the way that didn't exactly align with someone who lost everything.

Sucks to be him right now.

There's this neat system of computers in the world called the internet. Start by reading up on that you old fart

this

Your lawn needs BrianZ06 love

The storm yesterday knocked down our neighbors gutter along the garage and revealed this small but growing nest of nastiness. It's about the size of a baseball now. Will be staying that size too as tonight comes death. Paper Wasps. Usually not aggressive unless their home is disturbed :no: http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/144418166/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/144418165/original.jpg

buy new car and post about race gas boring but more consistant at the track.

funny you say that. our kids beach balls and other toys were lifted up and blow across the street. just got them back today.

I empathize with what you went through, but I hope in terms of changing your perspective it has since changed the way you live, save and spend so that YOU can take control of even the bad situations. Hopefully the Vodka you joked about drinking while posting isn't negatively impacting whatever ailed you. Either way, that's your choice. Regarding your income? (rhetorical questions) - How much of it have you saved for the rainy day or in this case, the perfect storm? - Is your family prepared to survive on one income? If not, why not? - What in your situation didn't work that put you on the edge? There are people on this board with more money in their car(s) than they have in cash savings. That's their choice. I also see hourly wage workers driving 300M's with 22's on them. Their choice. I'm sorry, I can only empathize but nothing more for people in such situations who chose not to work their own personal plan to fund the perfect storm. I also don't feel I should have to pay for anything when it hits them either. They own the car and the fancy wheels and the debt that comes with said storm. Let them carry it with them and pay it off. I'm way more in support of helping those that help themselves. The rest have to pay up or yes, suffer. ^^ take that bad and reword it, it's poverty in the making to never consider planning for unintended consequences. It's also bad business and honestly completely unfair to expect everyone else in the world to pay for those that choose to not do it. The real question becomes in such a situation, how much of their income are they saving and do they have a plan to live on just one? Bullshit. My wife does bankruptcy as part of her law practice and I've heard and seen the worst and in EVERY case there was an opportunity to plan and work to become better. Yes, they were responsible citizens but many chose to squander money and not advance their own careers or stretch their personal goals. I'm sorry but life isn't all about what happens to you. Unfortunately some did have some major medical situations crash down upon them, but that doesn't negate the fact that the last 20 years of their life were spent not planning for it. They lived for the present not worrying about the future and came to her to let our broken system bail them out and 99.9% don't feel they should pay for any of it. It's about education reform, not health care reform. The parts of this bill that I'm pissed with aren't what would help Mr. and Mrs. Smith in Westerville who have life changing event that even their plans couldn't handle. We can address that without incurring costs for the 8% of the welfare mongers that will cost us far more than helping someone who has shown a plan to help themselves. You're right, the bill isn't all bad, but it's costs and funding weren't thought through and the goals of the program go to help those that don't even try to help themselves. That's bullshit. Yeah, you're right, it would be much better to think I was born in a leap year and it's everyone around me who have the responsibility to fund my insurance premiums and care for my kids that I can't afford and shouldn't have had to begin with. Not to mention pay for my rent because I'm too lazy to keep a job and actually work, or heaven forbid, go back to school or learn a skill that would in turn pay me more so that I can dig out of the hole I created for myself.

I lived there Bill. Yes I have a perspective. However there are people everywhere who feel Appplebees is the shit when it comes to great food. The system works but sucks for the majority of folks above the median line of success. It's built for those below it. Not a recipe for what I would call success. I watched coworkers unlucky enough to be a part of that system get some pretty shitty doctors that they had to wait a long time to see. Sure, a simple clinic visit for a sinus infection isn't months out, but there's a reason why you don't hear of too many people around the world going to Canada for heart surgery or transplants. Their system pays for meritocracy and delivers it in a less than average way. But hey, at least the poor will live longer and the taxes that fund their system fuck the general population in a fair and uniform way. Don't believe me on wait times, just do some web browsing on how it's a major discussion point during their elections. Here's a screen shot of real time data for a simple Tonsillectomy. All Providences have web sites set up for such searches because the problem of waiting lists is so bad. Here's the wait time list as of today. Have fun eating for the next 3-6 months. Dental care is 10x worse. My coworkers hated that I could go back to the states, get a cleaning and if I needed a follow up filling done my wait was perhaps 1-2 days or even same day. http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/144412258/original.jpg

I'm sorry if you don't like the slight confidence I've injected. I've amplified it purposely. In return I don't appreciate the similar injection you provide where the people of this country need to have handouts provided on order to succeed and lean on excuses all day. You're right I do look at things in terms of how the world aught to work. I'm a firm believer in things happen because of me and my actions vs the whiners of the world who sit back and cry about what's happening to them. I'm not ignoring anything, I just believe its time to face reality and that everyone as a country and a people need to get back to making things happen instead of waiting for it to happen or for govt programs to pay their way. Everyone has a chance man. The wife and a married at age 19 And didn't have squat. Two people in school living in a studio apartment together. I'm sorry if you feel your hand was different. Newsflash, that's life and everyone has to make the most of what we have. Doesn't mean you fold your hand and accept a crappy life and say "well that's just what I was dealt" Perhaps that's your way of it but not ours. We bust ass and work hard and yes we fail too. I'm sure others could have capitalized even more than we have given our situation. Many others have done even more with far less. We know that. However we continue to focus on our goals and not worry about the guy next door. There's always someone faster as they say. All that said, Obamacare still sets the bar low and forces the spreading of wealth and pain. The reality as you call it is that will NOT help the people of this country become better. It will simple force us all to pay for their woes in life as they continue to just suck air with govt and people paying thier way and keeping them alive. It's time the live, contribute back and realize choices they make create the bed they have to sleep in.

Federal law does not permit a pre-existing condition exclusionary period of more than 18 months so it's not like under today's standards you'd be screwed. In fact state laws often shorten this period. You'd have to check with Ohio's insurance commissioner to see what the details are. If you kept your premium, my guess is they would use the Creditable Coverage policy to reduce or all but eliminate the pre-existing condition exclusionary period under your new policy. Many group employer policies (particularly those issued to large employers) don't impose a pre-ex period for new employees, as long as you enroll right after you begin employment. That will vary based on the contract with the employer. depends on a lot of variables on how they set up the coverage. if both spouses are 1099's, they should be budgeting accordingly I hope. key to any dual income household is to live off only one income. the other should be used for investments, retirements and safety nets. doing otherwise is a huge risk IMO. I completely disagree with you. If a family budgets and plans their finances correctly, they shouldn't be a burden to themselves in situations of dire straights. Again, way too many people fail to plan and fail to save for life changing events like health situations and that's what needs fixed. We need to stop throwing money at support programs and instead teach others to support themselves. It won't resolve all things overnight but how fast it does resolve things isn't up to the rest of the tax payers, it's up to those that it impacts. Be Obama, spread the pain and redistribute wealth.

Innocent until proven guilty. Prove it was me and you can have that fun. Until then, it's just a dog that died and I doubt a lady living in a trailer has the money to have a vet perform many tests or even a necropsy. I hear skunks and groundhogs around us die like that all the time. We have no idea why.

We can agree that it's great to have everyone covered. We disagree on the fact that I don't want their poor financial situation and health to burden my costs. Lump them together in their own plan and make them responsible for funding it or paying for it over time and become responsible for their own healthcare spending. Again, I don't need some broke-dick people and their shitty lifestyle impacting my premiums. For the past 11 years I've been on a high deductible HSA and love it. I have ZERO premium and contribute money to my HSA in place of pissing away a premium like most everyone else. It's MY Money and I manage my care. Most I'm out of pocket is $4k and every year my employer adds $2k to my HSA for me. Over the past decade the wife and I have accumulated a very, very nice savings on that card to cover our costs. Not everyone can afford our plan and I like it that way. That's why my employer is able to offer it to us with a ZERO premium. Users of these plans have far less claims, are way more responsible for our health and healthcare spending, marked by the fact that we we pay the first $2k per year out of our pocket (except for wellness) and as discussed that results in great benefits/premiums. Toss in the bottom 8% and my benefits of all that go out the window to cover them. No thanks. First, this heathcare bill isn't going to have the poor or currently uninsured by choice pay a TON more, it puts their cost burden on me. Obamacare is going to result also in EVERYONE getting a lower quality of care and to wait weeks for specialized services. I'll let Kirk chime in if you're not familiar with why. Again, I've lived / worked in Canada and seen the system in action. It sucks. Obamacare is also going to tax me more in a number of other ways to fund the costs involved. Bullshit. I'd rather have the system of today than flip the bill for everyone else and let the gov't try and run it. They can't effectively do what it is they have in front of them let alone the healthcare and insurance system. I'm not bothered at all as he paid his premiums himself, they weren't funded by the taxpayers around him. Again, he was responsible and accountable for both his premiums and out of pocket expenses. Obamacare encourages nor requires either. Bullshit. The result of his care and expenses does add to the increased premiums of everyone, that is natural, but again, those who are paying the premiums themselves and using the services in return are getting what they rightfully paid to have. Obamacare is going to mandate that companies either pay the way or that collectively the taxpayers fund the premiums for others to have coverage they've never had before. Bottom line is the state exchanges aren't going to have rates that are lower than today, they aren't adding doctors/choices to the panel either. Look at Massachusetts since 2006, rates have gone up 20-40-60% under a plan that's very similar. Wagner is right, bend over because all of us are about to get fucked to support those you feel "still have to be covered". Again, no thanks! A very, very small term plan through his employer. However, no, my family and even my wife and I have an investment plan of our own for such situations. Term is cheap and covers a relatively small amount in the grand scheme, but my family from father down is of the philosophy that you build your own self funded life insurance policy through investments and will be way better off for it in the end. We are secure there. Read up on http://www.daveramsey.com and you'll get the gist of what the plan we follow is. Again, more people need to be taught the right way to do things that are not only more financially sound but hold them accountable and don't impact others when exercised. Obamacare doesn't encourage, require nor imply that is the way to go either. Again, no, our family has a self insured program and has invested in it since my mother and father got married in the 50's. My parents saved and invested to insure me and my 3 siblings would be in good shape. My brother's costs were covered by that plan and the investments which made up his portion. The wife and I created and have followed the same plan since the early 90's and have since expanded our plan to include life insurance coverage for our own kids. We have all lost loved ones to battles that wore down their health. To your last statement, I'm right there with you. I'd gladly pay my share for my family and am glad you would do the same for your family. The difference however, is I'm not at all interested in paying part of a premium for the 29M people on welfare. They need to get a job and start doing what my family and many others have done and that is pay their own share. The scale and amounts may be different, but as long as they pay their share and work a plan, I'm fine with them. We don't need healthcare reform, we need education reform and a focus on reforming the people sucking money out of our system. If you don't fix the source of the pain, the disease will never go away. Obamacare doesn't fix the source of the pain. I hope the above makes sense 'cause that's a lot of fucking words ain't it :gabe:

I hate to take it out on the dog, but a couple nice scraps of steak soaked in prestone then tossed in the yard say early morning when he's likely taking a morning piss and hungry.

We fared very well. Nothing happened on our property. Thankfully just last weekend I spent a day trimming trees and removing old dead branches. http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/144401755/original.jpg

It was fucking Epic.

Insurance both primary and secondary covered the majority of it but my parents paid for his treatments and meds and essentially the rest of his needs. His wife pussied out and left him. His two three kids stood by him though. It was very costly yes but family came together and yes my parents financial plan worked. It's in fact covering them now as they go through struggles too.

You're failing to see that "through their insurance" means through premiums that then we will ALL end up fronting. I don't need the poorest and likely the most unhealthy 8% of the US piling on their issues to MY premiums. In the end they cost the rest of us money. Again all part of Obama spreading the pain and sucking up my earnings to cover those on welfare. Yep, the financial situation of the US continues to suck ass more each day.

Emotion, no, not really. I do look at it as a financial situation and business plan vs an emotional event. In thats what results. I just have a pretty strong opinion on how the business plans or lack there of for so many then in turn cause thier financial situation to take a shit and in turn that burdon gets put on the rest of us. It is black And white. It's money and financial responsibility or lack of. Don't turnit into shades of gray filled with emotion about people that need to rise up and fight for thier own self. You can't save the world or in t his case the 8%'ers and push that off on those t hat have done what they need to do. Leave that to thier family, church and charities. What's left and not covered is thier responsibility. Knock knock on their door comes reality. Time for people to face it and deal with it. I do everyday and do sleep well knowing that my expectations are equal to what I expect of others.

Heavens are going to open up n Dublin very soon!

You don't know that I haven't nor the details about my brother who went from a similar situation to his death after a 12 yr battle with cancer. I know the details of what you speak. I do. I also know the costs involved and the personal struggles that go with it. That said I never said I wasn't empathetic. I am however ver staunch on my belief for people to be accountable for themselves first and to be a part of the plan that will enable them as the move forward. My families situation is by no means bulletproof, but we have plans and safety nets of our own and it has taken sacrifice and hard work that I don't see the majority of others doing. I'm sorry but here to my expectations are high and I by no means am holding others to expectations I don't hold myself to. The monies being spent on this plan would be way better spent on education reform. It starts by teaching others to support themselves. Not by providing a system that provides better support for them. Will there be casualties along the way? You bet, but this bullshit reform headed our way is going to cause a lot more.