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Fair enough. I don't care if people like him or not, I just want people to dislike him for real reasons and not made up ones.

Our pay increases were ridiculous through the Bush years, though. The DoD and the Senate Armed Services Committee would make meager recommendations in the 2% range, and then congress would double it for no real reason. It's funny, pay dropped so much in the 90s that right before I joined, troops were legitimately getting shafted. I joined right after they started playing catchup, and then I left active duty right when they realized they were overpaying us and cut the raises down to a reasonable level. In any case, congress sets the pay scales, not the president.

No, he was on last night. I don't think he was saying that at all. In fact, he was doing his best to dodge those kinds of answers because he was clearly just there to campaign for democrats.

Anyone watch it?

It's not even the road course. Well, that's part of it since it keeps speeds down, but it's the fact that, at the end of that video, the guy's pit crew comes over and opens the door to his Holden. USING THE HANDLE!

Indeed. I whole-heartedly agree with the sentiment that V8 Supercars is what NASCAR should be.

Tell me about it. These attack ads on both sides have been really uninspiring. The annoying "lost jobs" counter on Kasich's website is almost laughable, and this Lehman Bros angle is just stupid. I'm trying to cut through the bullshit and I haven't managed yet. Another Dispatch link, this one not painting Kasich in the best light re: being straight with the facts: http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/09/14/copy/facts-cited-in-debate-will-bear-watching.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

OK, this is my first year living back in Ohio and I'm admittedly ignorant of Ohio politics. I'm nominally liberal but I've voted for Republicans before, and I'm not a strict party-liner. I just read up on Kasich and he seemed all right. I appreciate his budget efforts in the House during the Clinton Administration, but I feel that Strickland has a good point that he had it pretty easy since the country was doing pretty well. Meanwhile, Strickland's managed to keep the Ohio budget balanced for the last 4 years while struggling through this recession and not raising taxes. Apparently he had to suspend a planned tax cut, and the tax cuts he takes credit for were actually gifts from the previous administration, but still, keeping the budget balanced is no small feat. It also looks like he's really done good things for bringing businesses to Ohio. All told, I'm not seeing any reason to be upset. Anyone want to convince me otherwise? Just read the Dispatch's rather lukewarm endorsement of Kasich. It raises some good points, but isn't a slam dunk. Link and conclusion from the endorsement: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/10/10/for-governor.html

Not much to add, except I also would never buy used shocks or coilovers, and I also hate Tein. I got simple coilovers (non-adjustable shocks) from a reputable brand because I wanted something solid and reliable that would hold up for lots of HPDEs. It's not a race-winning setup, but who cares? Nobody wins at track days. I'm with AudiOn19s -- I'd rather have the best shock/spring combo than either a used high-end coilover or a gazillion-way adjustable taiwanese piece of crap.

I like working on cars as much as the next hobbyist, but I was in the some boat. Fortunately my neverending project was an $800 heap, but the basic facts were the same -- I spent 3 years dumping money into something that I never got to drive. I eventually had to come to terms with the fact that I wasn't Moneybags McGee and I had to find a car that would fit in with my time/budget constraints; something I could work on and improve but still remain drivable most of the time. That meant scaling back my ambition and concentrating my goals. Since then, I've been hyper-sensitive to other people doing the same things, but it's really hard to get through to people. If someone wants what I wanted when I was 22 -- an 11 second car that can also kill Porsches on road courses, win car shows, and impress the ladies, it's hard to convince them that they're not as rich or qualified as they think they are. To make it worse, telling some people they should check their ambition only emboldens them, and then if/when they finally do get to the point they want, they don't have the money to maintain it. I've seen a lot of forum superstars go out in a blaze of glory when they blow an engine and can't afford to fix it. At this point, I'm content to keep a stock motor running in a 20 year old car. It's slow, but I have a wife and a job and 3 kids, and keeping that pile slow and running as at least feasible for me. So to answer your question, people are stubborn.

No, you're right. This isn't about twisties versus straight line, because it's not like the drag strip guys get bored and go to road courses. They get bored and stay home and drink beer and watch football. Or whatever the hell it is you guys do in on the weekends. But still, who can deny a good flame war?

I was skeptical myself but my sisters were insistent. When my car gets back from the shop I'll line 'em all up and get pictures/measurements. @jeffro - you know, it might. According to edmunds the back seat is just as wide as a Mazda 6. I'm not sure I buy it but it's definitely worth checking out.

Oh, lol, no I wouldn't one-hand a bike at 170+ either

What all do you do to make up for the time you lost in the corners? Press the gas pedal extra hard and steer the car extra none? No matter how much you suck in the corners you can always scratch your butt on the straights.

@CarWhore - I'm selling the old car this month, but then I'm going TDY for 4 months and it makes no sense to have a car sitting around while I'm gone. Otherwise I'd be buying within weeks. The decision being made now has more to do with how much I decide to save over the next 5 months. @Panduh - I'm thinking I really need to bring some seats somewhere and do a test-fit. The back seat seems really big and that would handily be the most fun/useful car that could fit the bill. @Gas, Grass or Ass - My wife said I can finally get a DD with a manual and I'm not going to miss this opportunity. @Jones & @lmfaoryan - Sonata, interesting. It definitely fits the bill, so it goes on the list. Thanks! eta - hot damn, less than 3200 lbs and sporting a 200hp 4-banger, while still having the biggest back seat of anything I've looked at. Not bad! The turbo model doesn't come with a manual, unfortunately. @El Karacho - Sorry, I'm definitely the kind of guy to pick out a specific year/make/model/trim/color and then wait around for the perfect specimen. I know it's annoying for salesman, but I likes what I likes. @Got-Busa? - Kids are 4, 2, and fetal. Will be doing booster + forwards + infant at first. I asked around and my sisters both said they got 3 across in a Camry/Maxima, which is what prompted this new line of thinking. Fallback plan is/was a Mazda5.

I know. I wasn't all that fun to begin with, and the reality of 3 kids sucked even that little bit out of me. If there was something awesome that fit the bill, like an M5 that wasn't too heavy, expensive, or complicated, I'd get rid of the Integra and just have 1 car that did it all, but I don't think that's realistic. Performance is tied to luxury, which means the world is awash in bloated "sport sedans."

For VW I'd have to start with Passat sized, and I'd need to be sold on a Passat.

Due to an unfortunate turn of events, my wife is finally letting me get rid of the much-maligned Corolla. The only requirements for the new car are that it sport a manual transmission and be able to fit 3 car seats in the back. So keep your GTIs and Civic Sis, because we're entering Camry land. Actually, this is M5 territory. A6, CTS, TL-S, or what have you. Except those who know me know that I despise luxury cars. I like light, and I like simple. I don't care about gutless. Leather annoys me, but I suppose I could deal with it. A sunroof is a dealbreaker. Do not want. I haven't picked a price yet, but I'm not paying a premium for shit I don't need. Figure 02 or newer because LATCH anchors are must. Purchase time will be in the Jan-April time frame. I like wagons/hatchbacks, but I've got a van so it's not crucial. Fuel economy isn't a big deal, but I'd rather it be fast or efficient, not neither. Leading the charge right now is a base model '07 Fusion. Simple, 5-speed, slow, and wide enough for the family. Only 3100 lbs. Altimas and Maximas also fit the bill, but I'm not much of a Nissan fan, and if I'm getting something dull like this I'd like to stay away from a V6. Kinda depressing, though. Surely a Fusion isn't the sportiest cloth-seat no-sunroof mid-size on the market. The unusually wide '08 WRX seemed promising, but looking at the back seat quickly put that to rest. It's not 3-seat friendly.

Hey I don't care what people do for fun, I'm just answering the OP's question. If drag racing is so awesome this thread shouldn't exist.

The straights are where you have time to check your gauges, look at the trees, relax your hands, and scratch your butt. It's generally regarded as the most boring part of the track. But that's beside the point. You can't call someone who's been to drag strips closed-minded. I was open-minded and I tried it, quite a bit actually. I got bored. It seems that everyone gets bored. Guys in their 50s will still go out and road race slow-ass Neons. How many guys in their 50s go out and run 12s and 13s like they did in their 20s? Hardly any. You either keep going faster or you stop going. Amateur drag racing is a dead end. The only exception seems to be guys with classic muscle cars.

Sorry, I should have added, "And people are too stubborn to admit that they're bored with it and they should really find a new hobby, even if it's not car related, because a car guy isn't a car guy if all he does is sit around on the internet jerkin' it."

Because driving in a straight line is boring?

CSI says otherwise!

GM never claimed 230mpg, they claimed 230mpg-e, which was some stupid made-up number the EPA told them to claim. The EPA has since dropped that test because they realized it was retarded. Should GM have advertised it? Perhaps not, but we've entered an era where one-size-fits-all EPA ratings are essentially worthless and testers/marketers/journalists/consumers haven't quite caught up. 36.3 miles per charge, 52mpg thereafter. That works for me. But that's just for this one specific type of vehicle, so it's not all that useful as a yardstick. All I can do with that is compare the Volt to other Volts.

Thanks for the link, zietgeist. I waded through to the source blog for the "75mpg" run and here's my takeaway. First off, I'm going to get really sick of journalists spouting "mpg" numbers like that. Secondly: They took it on a 122 mile jaunt. Much ado was made of how much they thrashed on it, but for all their machismo it appears that this was a relatively normal drive. During which, they went 36.3 miles before the battery was depleted, then on the remainder of the trip achieved 52.4mpg. Based on those numbers, I'm inclined to agree that it's looking better. 52mpg is certainly reasonable/expected for a hybrid at this point, and 36 miles without the gas engine even so much as turning on is pretty close to GM's marketing claims. If anyone else finds any more test drives, post 'em up. I wanna see if these numbers hold.