chrismindless

http://www.wixt.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=458C6E15-45A3-4563-8CC3-B0DF7B48EEAB Summary: Man on crotch rocket runs from Police. Officer dies when he crashes his SUV. Man that ran will be charged with homicide and manslaughter due to a new NY law. Ok, it was completely wrong for the man to run from the police. But SUV police packages are explicitly stated as not suitable for pursuit... Where is the balancing point?

thx riding the bike i REALLY agree with #3.

have told us is fathers abandoning their children is in reality a tyranny of courts and government bureaucracies confiscating vast numbers of children from their fathers. What officials call “deadbeat dads” are more likely plundered pops: solvent and responsible citizens who are being looted by extortionate child support, coerced attorneys’ fees, and other government expropriations that — despite claims of it all being “for the children” – border on thievery. Child Support is big business … $21.9 billion in child support was taken in across the nation in 2004. Child abuse is largely a product of the feminist-dominated family law and social work industries. It is a textbook example of the government creating a problem for itself to solve. A few decades ago, there was no child abuse epidemic; it grew up with the welfare system and the divorce revolution. Almost all child abuse takes places in single parent homes. A British study found children are up to 33 times more likely to be abused when a live-in boyfriend or stepfather is present than in an intact family. “The presence of the father … placed the child at lesser risk for child sexual abuse,” Contrary to the innuendo of child abuse “advocates,” it is not married fathers but single mothers who are by far the most likely to injure and kill their children. “Contrary to public perception,” write Patrick Fagan and Dorothy Hanks of the Heritage Foundation, “research shows that the most likely physical abuser of a young child will be that child’s mother, not a male in the household.” Mothers accounted for 55% of child murders, according to a Justice Department report (1,100 out of 2,000, with fathers committing 130). HHS itself has figures that women aged 20 to 49 are almost twice as likely as men to be perpetrators of child maltreatment: “ “One scholarly study concluded that “An anti-male attitude is often found in documents, statements, and in the writings of those claiming to be experts in cases of child sexual abuse.” the judicial system, which is politicized to the gills, utterly favors women over men in divorce cases, without remorse, decency, or concern for children. The odds are 50% that your marriage will end in divorce. The odds are 70% that your divorce will be filed by your wife. The odds are 80% that your wife will get custody of your children-plus child support, alimony, and/or a hefty chunk of your property • 90% of homeless and runaway children come from single parent or sole custody situations. • 85% of youths incarcerated in juvenile jails are from single parent or sole custody situations. • 85% of adult felonies are committed by individuals who were raised in single parent or sole custody situations. • 75% of youths at chemical abuse centers are from single parent or sole custody situations. • 71% of all high school dropouts are from single parent or sole custody situations. • 70% of teenage pregnancies are to children from single parent or sole custody situations. • 63% of youth suicides are by children from single parent or sole custody situation. Randy Orville Brouse, 33, of Illinois, when jailed for felony failure to pay child support, hung himself on July 21, 2003. Prior to his death, he was one of 50 Hillsdale County's "Most Wanted". All are alleged to be dangerous and wanted "for serious and often violent crimes". In fact, more than 60% are wanted only for failure to pay child support. Reinaldo Rivera, 25, of New Jersey was jailed for failure to pay child support. He hung himself with a sheet after one week in jail in April, 2003. Mark Edward Dexel, 42, of Canada hung himself on January, 23, 2003 in a Kamloops motel after he was banned from seeing his son by the Canadian family courts. Derrick K. Miller, 43, of San Diego, California, walked up the steps courthouse steps to the San Diego family court's security guard on January 7, 2002. Miller had recently been judged to pay support he obviously did not have. While holding his divorce papers in one hand and pulling a pistol in the other, he told the guard, "You did this to me!". Derrick quickly pulled the trigger, on the only option left to him and many other fathers, that sent a bullet through his head and died. Darren Bruce White, 34, of B.C., Canada, killed himself sometime between March 12, 2000 and March 17, 2000, when his body was found. Darren's suicide came shortly after a court ruling he was capable, something US family courts are also known to do as attested by the author in his personal experience, of paying $2,071 a month in support. The court had no concern that he was paying $439 a month support in his first marriage and was only making $950 a month salary. White's daughter, Ashlee, expresses her grief regarding the current system. Every year 24,000 men commit suicide. Every 22 minutes one male commits suicide 90% of fathers with joint custody pay the ordered child support. 79.1% of fathers with visitation rights pay the ordered child support. 44.5% of fathers with no visitation rights pay the ordered child support In 1990, Lockheed employee and divorced father Bobby Sherrill was captured in Kuwait and spent nearly five months as an Iraqi hostage. The night after his release Mr. Sherrill was arrested for not paying $1,425 in child support while a hostage. 79.6% of custodial mothers receive a support award. 29.9% of custodial fathers receive a support award. 26.9% of non-custodial fathers totally default on support. 46.9% of non-custodial mothers totally default on support. Meyer and Garansky, Technical Analysis Paper No. 42, US, Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Income Security Policy, 1991. Child support is our system for replacing fathers with money. Everyone, including mothers, would be better off if we replaced money with fathers. - KC Author, Where's Daddy? The Mythologies behind Custody-Access-Support. 76% of all divorces are initiated by women. Almost 90% of all custodial parents are women. In some states, DNA Testing does not hold water in Family Courts. 835,000 men are battered each year by their wives/girlfriends. Male brains weigh around 1.25kg; female brains weigh on average 100g less

1) Men have the Right to remain SILENT, even if she wants to "share." 2) Men have the Right to watch PORN, competition inspires. 3) Men have the Right to, and the need for SPEED, woman have the Right lane and need to stay in it. 4) Men have the Right to anything that EXPLODES: Guns, Fireworks, Video-Games, Orgasms... 5) Men have the Right to LAUGH, even if she's crying. 6) Men have the Right to KILL all other species, by any means neccessary. (Blow us PETA) 7) Men have the Right to POWER: Financial Power, Political Power, and Horse Power. 8) Men have the Right to control their own MONEY: Poker is an investment strategy. Lap Dances are financial aid. 9) A woman had the Right to change her mind, A Man has the Right to tell her she's full of SHIT. 10) Feminist modification cannot replace natural evolution. Men have the Right to be MEN!

if only the world worked this way but it doesnt and to be 100% honest, what about those that get married? Your opinion is noted but its lacking several key points. It makes sense if you have a narrow scope focused on the issue and dont consider it as a complete entity. ITs very broad, could you elaborate more? The current system is unfair and everyone that agrees needs to speak up and make this a topic commonly dicussed ... it will gain speed and momentum and things can be done ... just talk about it. discuss it with your friends, get a census, lets be heard, lets share ideas and understand this even better than those that are creating it to ruin our lives. yes, thats a big FUCK YOU to the feminists ...

The different groups im a part of are working to get 50/50 custody in place meaning that the other parent has to prove why they should get more than 50/50 if they want it ... and if you have a 50/50 system, than the debt or the expense of a child is shared evenly and then we can get rid of child support in THAT situation. And we are pushing for legislation that allows paying non custodial parents to get a list of where the money is being spent AND that if a mother is receiving child support that the person prove they have tried to make money on their own and that they just cant cut it. ALso there is a March planned, I believe its either in May or in JUne, Ill let you guys know but this whole issue is why Im off to law school. This has to change. This has to get fixed. And yes, you can blame feminism for the system today. Thats a very legit and provable point. Its not a hate point, its a fact. FOr future info: There are ways to win in family court, you have to have a really good lawyer. I stumbled upon one and his tactic is to do everything BEFORE the woman files anything. He says, if you file for custody first, that looks to the court like YOU want custody. And you can use it in negotiations. He also said that 98% of his cases end up with the the two parties settling outside of court and writing up a contract. This, for men at this point in time, is the absolute best legal position to be in and its the one Im in right now, we are drawing up our contract in a few months (once i can afford all the lawyer fees). Then everything will be out of the courts and the other party cannot go after child support OTHER than the agreed upon amount. We have a formula, its real simple: You take the AFTERTAX income of both parents, and you create a ratio. THen you tally up the monthly expenses for the child, and you each pay your fair portion. Housing, insurance, etc cannot be considered an expense as we both have to provide those for our kid. Since she has her more than I do, i pay more for food/diapers, etc. But clothes are the same deal. IN the end Im paying $60 a month for expenses. Since im in school, i dont make as much as her. She makes 3 times as much as I do. Plus our parents help us out by buying toys and clothes. All in all its a very fair deal and we are not fighting anymore, we get along which is really good for our child.

Damion Hamilton sits, waiting and fuming, in a room at the state Office of Child Support Enforcement. His legs bounce in his plastic chair. He’s too upset to read any of the magazines lining a far wall. He burns with frustration over paying child support, the same kind of frustration that helped fuel a killing spree in St. Louis last week. In offices like this one, frustration is not unusual. Hamilton is distraught over the child support he’s been paying for his only child, a 4-year-old boy who shares his name. His wages are being garnisheed to the tune of $260 a month. That’s a lot of money to a man who makes $6.25 an hour as a short-order cook. He said his last paycheck, after taking out child support, was just 60 cents. Hamilton, who bristles at the term “deadbeat dad” and insists he is a good father, said the system is strangling him financially. He’s here to argue that he’s paid enough. So, he said, he feels a little of what a witness said drove Herbert L. Chalmers, who was reportedly enraged over having his wages garnisheed for child support, to kill four people before turning the gun on himself. “I understood his frustration, but what he did was wrong,” Hamilton, 28, said. “But just imagine you can’t pay your house note, or your car note. It hurts. Hurts the heart. They look at you like, ‘You’re a man, you can take it.’ But it hurts. I can’t go on with my life.” Last week’s spasm of violence hints at the highly charged world of child support cases, where fights over money simmer for years and occasionally explode. Most cases proceed without notice. But while Chalmers’ violent reaction was unusual, the powerful emotions behind it - the rage, frustration and sense of helplessness - are common, say people who deal daily with family-law cases. “When you couple financial frustration with the emotional baggage, you have a situation where, unfortunately, it can turn tragic,” Dallas divorce attorney Jonathan Bates said. A hot-button issue Child support is especially fraught with pain. It hits the noncustodial parent, often a man, in the heart and the checkbook. Payments can extend for up to two decades as the child grows up. Each paycheck can feel like a reminder of that failed relationship. Rational thoughts about the duty to support a child are not factored in. “If you talk to these men and ask them, ‘Do you want your kids to sleep in the street?’ they say, ‘No, not at all.’ But they’re not thinking about that,” Clayton divorce attorney Allan Zerman said. “It’s a hot-button issue for a lot people.” The cost of child support appears to be what pushed Chalmers over the edge. In the months before last Tuesday’s shootings, he learned he’d need to fork over even more from his paycheck at Finninger’s Catering Service in St. Louis’ West End. He reportedly felt he could not survive on the $200 he was taking home every two weeks. He told Finninger’s co-owner Charlie Finninger that the garnishment was a mistake. Chalmers fatally shot four people: Sylvia Haynes, mother of his children; co-workers Cleo Finninger and Christine Politte; and Carol D. Moore, whose relationship with Chalmers is unclear. Another employee, Patricia Meier, was shot and survived. Across the country, child support cases have come to violent ends. In January, a University City man killed his girlfriend, their 7-year-old son and himself because he was worried about going to jail for failing to pay child support for his other children. A New York man upset about paying child support shot two of his ex-girlfriends before killing himself in October. Last February, a Texas man shot his ex-wife and a bystander in a rampage caused by a child support dispute. And in Seattle, a man frustrated by the child-custody system stormed a federal courthouse last summer and was killed by police. Before his death, the man had staged solo marches and written e-mails protesting the child support system in Washington state. A huge industry Collecting child support has emerged as a huge industry. Over the past 30 years, states and the federal government have stepped up efforts to track down parents and seek reimbursement for federal assistance money. As a result, $21.9 billion in child support was taken in across the nation in 2004. Missouri collected $527 million in child support and Illinois pulled in more than $1 billion in fiscal year 2005. To cut down on people job-hopping to avoid paying child support, federal law requires companies to immediately report all new hires to the state, so the names can be checked against child-custody rolls. Most states use a formula for calculating the amount of child support, though family-law judges have discretion to push the amount higher and lower. The best way to collect child support is to take it directly from paychecks, experts say. Wage garnishments account for two-thirds of all collections in the United States. In Missouri alone, 135,000 new wage garnishment orders were signed in 2005. “Some people find it a convenience. Some people find it uncomfortable, too,” said Jim Carney, a Missouri child support field liaison. Garnisheeing wages sometimes puts companies in a difficult spot. “It can feel like an invasion of privacy, involving an employer in a personal matter,” said Frank Murphy, a divorce attorney with the St. Louis firm of Cordell & Cordell. One payroll company, Midwest Accounting Service, includes a copy of the court order with the first paycheck. The line item on a pay stub reads simply “garnishment.” Still, people call to complain. “They get upset, and we just tell them we’re following the law,” office manager Julia Beardon said. “It’s not fair” At the child support office in downtown St. Louis, Hamilton’s wait is over. A caseworker opens the secured door. “Are you ready, Mr. Hamilton?” the caseworker asks. “Can you sign in for me? Can you step into Room 2?” Hamilton disappears behind a door. Muffled voices pour from the room, getting louder and louder as Hamilton calls his son’s mother on his cell phone and lets her join the conversation over speakerphone. After 15 minutes, he comes out, phone to his ear, continuing to talk with his former girlfriend. They are arguing over what happened to $1,300 he recently paid in child support. The phone call ends. But it is not clear whether anything was resolved. “This is not fair, not fair,” Hamilton said, standing outside. “I live with my mom. I sleep on the floor. I don’t have a car. I walked down here. It’s not fair.” He puts the phone in his pocket and begins the walk home, certain he will have to return. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/66751EC0A00EC39886257158005EAE8E?OpenDocument

My dad sent me this in an email from his vette club .... http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1369957 can only imagine the looks on the faces of the ppl behind the guy!

so right and the sad part is this issue goes even further and deeper than this ... so sad, but you can thank really selfish and stupid people for this one.

can i venture an EXTREME idea, as its extreme compared to the mainstream opinion, but as we depart illegals, we should deport their families as well that even though born on american soil, they should never of been here in the first place, they were born here illegally and in my mind makes them illegal as well, so deport the illegals and the illegitimate kids etc. I know its an extreme thought but i dont really see how it is wrong, all things held constant, under just this one point of view, it is right, all other things held constant. Bring other factors into the equation and its not this simple though it feels REAL good saying it.

^^^ and we look retarded for keeping them here as well ... at every one of those rallies, there should be ppl checking their status and i bet we'd cap hundreds of thousands of illegals at each rally and force them into Mexico!

btw dont hate on the subaru community, we rank #1 in reliability and we can drive year round at full throttle.

for a second i thought this douche was talking about me ... making fun of the gold rims ... come now i didnt know the cookie-cutter rims of the TAs were any better (you know which ones im talking about, the mid 90's, weren't they on 2 or 3 model years?) and the wing ... not a ricer mod because its a ricer mod when you have a huge wing creating downforce on the rear of a FWD car ... the STI drives it's rear wheels buddy so i would say it makes sense to have a wing there, shit the WRC car has the same wing!! (kicked out a few more inches to the rear, but roughly the same style) and the pink badges ... the TAs are known for the friggin chicken on the hood .. come now ... i owned an 01 ws6, those cars come rusted from the factory ... im sure ill see your ta on the side of the road one day as i go driving by ... no leaky t-tops, no oil spitting from the rear pinion seal, no rusty panels and i can roll my windows up ^^^ taken from personal experience and my car was only 1 1/2 yrs old when all these things happened ... prompted me to just sell the car. /rant

the more i see of this stuff, the more i feel a burning desire to be quite racist but I know that that just isnt the right way to go about this issue. I feel your frustrations on this and I think the bottom line is the VERY first word of every headline, and to me, it stops right there at that is : ILLEGAL immigration protests ... ILLEGAL immigration reform .... ILLEGAL immigrants do the work we dont want to do ... ILLEGAL immigrants ... ILLEGAL ... ILLEGAL ... ILLEGAL ... if we need workers to do crappy jobs ... well, lets give our citizens a chance to do those jobs and if there is a shortage ... than we can allow some ppl in to do those jobs, but thats after every ILLEGAL has been deported and every CITIZEN given a chance to do those jobs and let the market balance itself out ... if there is a need, ill consider it BUT i doubt there will be a need as the MARKET will fix itself ... Adam Smith for the win!

This article is proof that these people dont want to be American citizens, they just want to be given something and dont hold any loyalty to the people supplying the money and just because there is a case here and a case there of one of them actually doing something great like serving in the military, creating jobs, helping people out, something credible doesnt mean the rest of them are so great. I think they make lousy AMericans. im puking in my mouth ....

http://www.pbase.com/blackieonassis/racetracks if you have GOogleEarth, some locations of global race tracks ... and if you havent seen GoogleEarth, its pretty neat. googleearth > mapquest enjoy!

we did scientology in class and we even had a scientologist speak and explain to us. He says that Lord Xenu is all a hoax they dont believe in it ... its very expensive to gain levels (hmm wonder why) ... He also justified why his "religion" sued everyone all the time and he said that if someone was attacking OSU, wouldnt we want to protect it? That was his reason. Oh and my roommate's dad, had a partner that was a Scientologist, but never told him ... One day, he opens a huge law suit against him and takes his entire business ... it was all bogus ... Those Scientologists are shady characters. Bravo Matt and Trey! Great episodes!

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2006_new_york/0605_2007_subaru_wrx_sti_limited/ http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2006_new_york/0605_2007_subaru_wrx_sti_limited_445.jpg Limited to just 800 units, this U.S.-only STI variant is aimed at the shy, quiet wannabe banzai rally driver. The transformation from wild-child base STI to the business casual STI Limited was achieved primarily by swapping the regular car's gargantuan rear wing and roof-vane spoiler for a far more subtle, single decklid spoiler. The Limited also gets foglamps, a front air dam, unique Enkei wheels, and black Brembo calipers in place of the usual gold grippers. Inside, heated leather seats, satellite radio, and a sunroof improve the livability. Of the 800 cars, half will be painted white and half will be gray.

WAPCE ftl

Just wanted to share some info. If you are opposed to illegal immigration, one group Ive been a member of for 2 years now helped lead the battle that influenced congress to vote down these ridiculous Amnesty bills last week. http://www.numbersusa.com. Its a very credible organization and its free ... you sign up, they link you with faxes to send, you click a button, off goes the fax. They give you numbers to call. You pick up the phone call your senator and express your point of view. Sen. DeWine's staff are for the most part, the best to speak with, they have listened to me (most of the time) and have responded to emails i have sent as well. If you are interested, here is a link. ENjoy! If you know of any other credible groups, please post them up so we can all check them out!

and what about the water stations setup in the desert? they are there so the illegals dont die of dehydration as they are illegally crossing the border ... im 100% WTF on this one ... 1. if you are gonna cross a border that is a desert ... wouldnt taking water with you sound a bit of a good idea? And its hard to get lost, you head due north ... so whats going on here? 2. you arent supposed to be there in the first place ... its a good humanitarian effort BUT it encourages illegal activity ... so who's the real winner out of all this? and who is the real loser?

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 109th Congress - 2nd Session as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate Vote Summary ::::::::: [ this bill has nothing to do with securing the borders but moreover it has to do will letting illegal immigrants gain citizenship. I am very opposed to this as my girlfriend is Japanese and has been on the list for 3 years now, waiting in line legally ... what about her? This kind of movement makes us look real bad in the world's eyes and makes a mockery of out laws] Question: On the Cloture Motion (Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Specter Amdt. No. 3192 ) Vote Number: 88 Vote Date: April 6, 2006, 10:58 AM Required For Majority: 3/5 Vote Result: Cloture Motion Rejected Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 3192 to S. 2454 (Securing America's Borders Act ) Statement of Purpose: To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to provide for comprehensive reform and to provide conditional nonimmigrant authorization for employment to undocumented aliens, and for other purposes. Vote Counts: YEAs 39 NAYs 60 Not Voting 1 Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---39 Akaka (D-HI) Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Biden (D-DE) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Cantwell (D-WA) Carper (D-DE) Clinton (D-NY) Dayton (D-MN) Dodd (D-CT) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Feinstein (D-CA) Harkin (D-IA) Inouye (D-HI) Jeffords (I-VT) Johnson (D-SD) Kennedy (D-MA) Kerry (D-MA) Kohl (D-WI) Landrieu (D-LA) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (D-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) Menendez (D-NJ) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Obama (D-IL) Pryor (D-AR) Reed (D-RI) Reid (D-NV) Salazar (D-CO) Sarbanes (D-MD) Schumer (D-NY) Stabenow (D-MI) Wyden (D-OR) NAYs ---60 Alexander (R-TN) Allard (R-CO) Allen (R-VA) Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Brownback (R-KS) Bunning (R-KY) Burns (R-MT) Burr (R-NC) Byrd (D-WV) Chafee (R-RI) Chambliss (R-GA) Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Coleman (R-MN) Collins (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Cornyn (R-TX) Craig (R-ID) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) DeWine (R-OH) Dole (R-NC) Domenici (R-NM) Dorgan (D-ND) Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Frist (R-TN) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA) Gregg (R-NH) Hagel (R-NE) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Isakson (R-GA) Kyl (R-AZ) Lott (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN) Martinez (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) Nelson (D-FL) Nelson (D-NE) Roberts (R-KS) Santorum (R-PA) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL) Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK) Sununu (R-NH) Talent (R-MO) Thomas (R-WY) Thune (R-SD) Vitter (R-LA) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA) Not Voting - 1 Rockefeller (D-WV)

Yes you are so correct on this one. It is the debate, and for example in a search for an idea on guarding the border, I talked with a few buddies in the army, about why or why not we could use the army to guard the border ... simply put, it would expensive, we would have to buy up land and label and its just a huge mess, so Im very convinced using the army to guard the border is most likely not a feasible option. It could be done, but not at the top of my list. Yes, I see your point. It is very sensible. But I think the expense of deporting and all that jazz is more for the idea and concept of our laws and what we do to those that break them. Its a VERY expensive example we would be making, but it is something that has to be done and something that should of been done many years ago. That is the debate, I've resolved to the point that the illegals need to be removed from our country, but the ramafications to current businesses and people's lives would be enormous ... its a complex issue and I think a proper break down would be needed, but I do not understand this issue well enough to make that break down and until I see a well layed out breakdown, then I really dont think I will change my view point unless new evidence proves that my viewpoint isnt the best choice. (even the phrase best choice is debatable and how I use it is very broad, but I think the idea is clear) Yes, I agree with you on this and last year i wouldnt have. A concept learned in ECON is the natural unemployment rate. THere will always be unemployment. However, if the job market is filled with ONLY legal AMericans, than that unemployment is a natural and 'fair' one. ANd reducing the illegal population would reduce the supply curve and in theory raise wages (all things held constant). So even though unemployment will always exist, it is more fair to Americans to be given the best possible situation and to remove anyone illegal to help improve that situation. I personally dont feel I owe anything to illegal immigrants and the impact they have on our economy CAN be viewed as positive however mostly from what Ive seen it is more negative than positive, and thats looking at the issue without any consideration to the very fact that they are illegally here, which also a smack in the face to those legally seeking citizenship (my JDM GF for example). interesting point, one made a bit ago on a radio show and a caller made the point that right now crossing the border isnt a high crime and some legislature now is trying to be passed to make illegal immigration MORE of a crime than it is now. I havent dipped into this part of the issue much, I really dont have much to say on that. But honestly if i was in a bad situation, i would do the same, but even stealling bread to feed your family is morally just, it is illegal and cant be allowed. The bread has to be earned, or given, but stealing is not the way to go. Neither is breaking the law. ANd im very guilty of breaking some traffic laws and etc ... but if I get caught, I too will pay the price and in all honesty deserve it. Thats kinda why i dont feel bad about deporting 11 million ppl ... holy crap that is a lot of ppl and would be a huge impact on our country... hmm interesting thought.

yep, you got me Ive had to use that so much, i have a custom key to insert it in my word processor ... yes you are correct ... Ceteris paribus

Good thing this week for those that didnt read it ... BOth the Frist bill, the McCain/Kennedy, and the Spectator bills have all been shot down in a demo vs rep votes , winning with at least 60 votes, in some cases 62 votes. Bottomline, there will be a two week break until these bills are picked back up again. ANd if you are like me, and are against illegal immigration, you can DO something now, sign up for http://www.numbersusa.com and help join the fight. I read many replies here from people that support illegal immigration and I want to ask you to be sure that you are clear here: 1. We are not against IMMIGRATION ... this country is built BY IMMIGRANTS, shit, we are all decendants of IMMIGRANTS!!! but, illegal immigrants are different. THere is system, there are rules. If you cross the border to come here seeking a new life, thats great! I applaud that BUT you have to follow the rules. What are you saying to the ppl around the world following the rules and waiting in line? What do you say to our foreign policy in that regard? You have to consider that option, its very important. 2. According to the illegals CAUGHT crossing the border, 12% of them were convicted violent crime criminals not just in Mexico, but here in the US in some cases. That means, of those 11 million illegals, very close to 1 million of them are criminals of some kind ... 3. National security ... period. BOrders need to be sealed up and patrolled more than it is now. 4. There are more than 11 million unemployed AMERICANS in this country. What about them? 5. It is illegal to cross our border illegally meaning that you are breaking the law. What say you to that fact? (hears crickets) ... I thought so. 6. It doesnt matter how you FEEL about the issue, illegal immigration is wrong and isnt fair to the other hardworking immigrants and SOON TO BE IMMIGRANTS ... it just isnt. 7. The illegals that are here now, dont have GREAT LIVES!!! They are mostly working shitty shitty jobs and being overworked and underpaid ... thats just wrong, period. They shouldnt be here, i dont feel bad for them, but being an ECON MAJOR, I can tell you that simply put, if you INCREASE the SUPPLY of workers, the equilibrium point follows the rightward shift of the supply curve and that will follow down the demand curve which doesnt change (not much if any) causing a lower equilibruim wage ... more workers for the same number of jobs means lowballing ... ppl willing to take the job for less just to work ... Dont believe me? Look it up, its basic MacroEconomics 101, i have my books from class, id love to lend you it for abit, might open your eyes. I have no problem quoting ssome of the text for you. its superlate, i just got home, hope i didnt miss anything or misquote. cheers!