Moto-Brian

This isn't going to replace the SV. The SV is going to be the race platform and this is the street version, really. No frills and nothing new really other than design.

Seen it in person. Really neat bike. Very much similar to the SV in terms of size and overall specs. I think it makes the SV look better. I'm not a fan of all the garbage they have on there in terms of shields and such. The frame looks less beefy vs. the SV. Just looks cool in some way, though. The white and blue one was really cool in terms of colorway.

The GP Plus gloves are by no means AStar's top end gloves. Also understand that thinner gloves are something that some riders like (myself included) and you give up legth of use for feel. Thicker will last longer, but feels like shit - to me... You have Held gloves and a $475 suit??? You are right about their marketing, but understand that AStar makes some really good products and they do an exceptional job at making sure the high end stuff does what it is supposed to do. It isn't marketing BS and they certainly have a great R&D department. I know the lady who was responsible for the AStar top end suits from 2007 back to 2002. They did a good job making stuff and still do. But, you do. And, you have proven that it is true. You bought the Plus gloves and not the best glove of choice. A good entry level track day glove, but not the best Astar has. The Held glove is a HUGE step up and costs more money. There's a reason... Your Fieldsheer pants - entry level pants. Buy a better or higher end pant and they would hold up better. Don't subscribe (sounds like you have, however) to the sales pitch that Spartan shoots to you. You DO get what you pay for. Like I stated, is a Vega $70 helmet the same as a $500 Arai??? Yes it does. Spartan suits are not going to be a better suit than the Celtic, the AStar anything, the SHIFT Vertex, the Held suits, Dainese, etc... It's a $475 suit because it is worth that. If you think that it is fine that he CANNOT travel to Pakistan, he CANNOT test the leather to verify the level of quality, that there are no brand named products that are constantly tested and having to meet standards, then you'll be fine with the Spartan. Trust me when I tell you that you are wrong on this. Companies test the quality of the leather. If Spartan states it is Top Grain or Full Grain or whatever, Dave is simply having to trust that it is being used and is what they say it is. Other companies (read as ANY of the companies like AStar, SHIFT, Hein Gericke, Teknic, etc.) go TO THE COUNTRY AND THE FACTORY and quality check the leather they are to use in their suits. Most typically import the leathers and field test the leather for quality. Just that step alone is VERY important to your safety and the quality of the garment. They will also travel at different times (un announced) to verify quality control and processing standards. It isn't batch testing, but it allows them to make sure the standards they require are being met. Dave looks at suits when they get to him AFTER they are made. He has a waiting period to make changes. The people that get suits that need something changed? They either have to send them back and wait weeks for them to get repaired or updated or they are out of luck. No, it can't. Again, I am upset at the fact that Spartan makes it seem that way even though Dave says he never says it. People like yourself that do not know any better believe him. The suit you have may never give you any problems. You may only really use it sparingly. For someone like myself that goes to the track over 20 times a year, my suit is going to hold up. The Spartan will implode should I put it through the same thing. Spartan suits are $475 at full pop retail. Not close out or discontinued pricing. Spartan suits are NOT at the same level as most out there. If you feel they are, I am sorry. You then have fallen for the pitch and cannot be told otherwise. Actually, there are different types of thread out there that are used in higher end suits. Saying all "nylon" is the same is the same as saying all plastics are the same. They aren't. They can coat or use different thread types depending on the quality and level of protection the company wants. Nylon is a cheap alternative. Like I stated, they use the minimum in terms of how they make their seams. That's the bottom rank for seam joining. Other companies use a much more technical and elaborate way to meet seams and in doing so, it is more protection, but also more money. Again, you get what you pay for. Spartan would increase costs by using DuPont products, Italian armor, Schoeller products, Kevlar panels, different thread, better seam construction, and having leather imported for production of their suits. All those things would make the suit much higher in retail. Probably at minimal, $700-$1000... Have you seen one of these in person? I'm curious for an outsiders review from actually seeing one, naturally the people who buy them want them to be great and it sways their opinion. Then again you get the others with their brand name suits and want to rip on ones that may be a better deal.

The guys who have said they like them are street guys and not racers. Crash tests? Where have you seen any posted pics and actual info stating they have? I've talked to Dave who sells them and have agreed to keep away from bashing his product. I will tell you this - you get what you pay for #1. #2, his mentioning of 90% of suits are made in Pakistan is wrong and in me pointing that out, he has removed that information from his site. He also is implying the suits are as good or better than more expensive suits. They are not. He knows this and should be more clear as to not mis-lead people. Few things: 1) US Nationals are told to not travel to Pakistan for reasons relating to the crisis in the Middle East. Companies that build their suits in China travel CONSTANTLY to check on the assembly, the testing of the leather, and the quality control while being built. Dave has to wait until they are produced in a batch to check for issues. He can change them, but it isn't to say you won't be the guy with the suit that should have had changes made. 2) The leather in Pakistan is not tested and there is no way to prove it at time of assembly. Dave says it is a certain grade, but has no way to prove that. Most companies like SHIFT and AStar and others import their leather from Brazil and Argentina. These places produce what is viewed as some of the best leather in the world. The leather is tested and verified and as stated, companies travel to China to verify before production. It is important to note that if it is stated as Full Grain leather, it can and should be proven. You can test it later as in taking it to a place here, but I know he doesn't do that... 3) Products that make the suit up are important and relative to the quality. Komodo is a Pakistan built suit and while considered a good suit, they also import into Pakistan certain products that they have put into the suits. I believe (cannot verify) they import the leather, as well... Spartan only uses one brand that is stated - Schoeller Keprotect. A VERY good source for the stretch panels, but one thing I am worried about and not sure if Dave can prove as he doesn't go to Pakistan is the fact that they do NOT run the Schoeller tags. It COULD be Schoeller as you pay extra for those tags, but it could also NOT be Schoeller and he'd really never know otherwise... The brand name products increase the costs and why a lot of entry level suits exclude them... CE approved armor is like SNELL for helmets. If Vega helmet has a SNELL rating and is only $70, then it MUST be as good as a SNELL approved Arai, no? We know the answer to that... 4) Thread and seams. They do not know the brand of thread other than it is nylon. That's not good. But, they also use the bare minimum in terms of seam assembly to protect the rider. Butt seams and such aren't as important as the ones on the hip, shoulders, forearms, etc. He talks about a crash that was on the butt area - that's sliding at slow speed and not tumbling. I need to see forearms and hips to understand how they crash... Buy what you want, but PLEASE understand that these suits are sub par when compared to other suits out there. The Celtic suit KILLS this Spartan suit toe to toe. But, that $475 price point is going to attract people who are just getting into track days and such. It certainly isn't acceptable to those who know what to look for and what they want in terms of safety...

Pumas were on my list until a few guys told me they tend to break things and are somewhat fragile in a crash - parts-wise and not safety or protection-wise... They are also somewhat heavy to me. Love the style and fit, though. I just thought the TCX was a little better feel, but I think it really comes down to preference and comfort for the rider. Pick what works best for you and you'll be better off.

Nah. Just a fun and hooligan styled bike that allows one to push really hard and not have too many issues. It could go faster on race compound tires MAYBE, but I think it was close to max for me due to things dragging. You know, like the right side case cover? Not a comfortable thing to have occuring...

My bad, sorry. Mis-read that...

Well, their "brilliant" marketing campaign in using that "going out FOR business" was the cause here. Just goes to show how dumb and short sighted some people are. In a feable attempt at trying to stir up business, they hurt themselves. I love it... I also think that Ohio has a law that doesn't permit playing on the words "going out of business" so, they probably got some heat over that, as well... I'm not totally sure on that, but it is what I have heard through a lot of people... I think with 60-70% accessories, it can be perceived they are struggling for business. After all, now isn't the time to be giving stuff away. If you have a decent amount of foot traffic, no reason to give the farm away. A lot of dealers are really slow and some are doing some low pricing on specific units or really old inventory, but nothing like the accessory sale Hinds is doing.

Dude, if you can get her to buy it, I will hook you up with some Fox mountain bike gear as a commission...

Just the cable. Love SIDI's technology and ideas. Just see a good number of buddies having to keep spare cable kits around in case...

Actually, SHIFT addresses the Camel toe and has Schoeller stretch material in the crotch. It's AMAZING compared to normal suits and even last year's suit... Me love standing now!!

The 2CT is a great track day tire. Again, look at the You Tube video I posted with Edwards...

I can do mid :38s on street tires that were fairly burned up and on that turd Super Duke 990. Corsa 3s will be fine...

Ttt

Ttt

Don't worry about the vents and rain. The shoulders may get wet, but not much more. Your feet and other areas will be more wet than the vented areas... As for the boots and returning, STG allows returns as they guarantee fit. They have some great customer service, too. Basically, if you know what size you are in a certain boot, STG can cross reference what you'd be in the TCX. You need to convince Nick and Justin to tell the ordering peeps to get TXC in...

Kinda. I know the sites ask to have people sign up as reps. Not really industry reps, but more like ambassadors. Not an issue and it's cool, but anyone can sign up... Just was suggesting to him that he checks it out for himself and see what he can get out of it... Sounded like a good deal for regular guys. As far as the BP, I really like the Aegis because it is so slim and feels like it isn't restricting. I prefer the old school Dainese like I said so, it's tough on the others that feel bulky - to me. I suggest a chest protector, but like anything, it is preference. I wish I could find one that feels right to me. They make me feel too restricted...

Ok... I think we are both saying the same thing. I apologize if it got to a point that we are arguing pretty much the same thing... I think you were saying what the article is saying in that the tires come to temp pretty much the same. True. They go to 10 degrees, 20 degrees, to 100 degrees, etc. My point was this: Use the street tire to be ST. Use race tire to be RT... ST has an optimal temp of 125 degrees where it works at it's best. The range runs up from there. RT has an optimal setting (noted in the article you posted) of 165 degrees and up from there. A street tire if heated with warmers to 165 degrees will be very greasy and will not provide the best suitable traction. RT is heated to 165 degrees will be best in that environment where those temps are reached. Thus, a street tire at the track isn't a good idea for the best traction. Can be done, but not ideal. Same with the RT. It will come to 125 degrees well enough, but it isn't going to provide the best traction at that temp as it is designed to be at 165 or so. Now the ST will work great. The tires such as the 2CT and what Pirelli stated in the article are tires that bridge a gap. They offer the best of both worlds and can be used in each environment easily w/o too much of a problem. However, at aggressive track pace, they tend to fall off performance wise. Here's the article as I copied it from the posted link: "Finally, there is the aspect of using race tires on the street. Interestingly, Knoche says Pirelli's street and DOT race tires should come up to temperature equally quickly and at no time does the race compound offer less traction than that of the street tire. However, this is not a statement that we feel can be safely applied to all brands of tires, as we've heard differently from tire engineers (not marketing managers) from other companies regarding their specific brand." I agree that they will come to temp equally and I think that's what you were saying. I apologize. I was referring to performance levels at certain temps. Think of it this way: My wife's sports car. She has a set of tires that are Summer Performance only tires. They work great at temps above say, 50 degrees. Good adhesion, the optimal operating temps are easily obtained and held. Now, if it gets to winter, we use winter/snow tires. These tires are good at temps below 40 degrees. They offer good adhesion, and reach optimal temps easily and are held as long as needed. However, the summer tires suck at grip in 40 or lower temps. the compound cannot reach the desired temp for that type of compound. Same with the winter tire. If I use it in July on an 80 degree day, they would turn to rubber cement. They get gummy and greasy. They reach the same temp as they need to be, but exceed their optimal temp for best performance. Make sense? Otherwise, we'd have a single compound to use for both street and track. Tire companies could save billions if they could develop a tire that does both equally well. Race tires for the street probably work great for you guys and the guys out here that carve a lot of curvy roads and ride aggressively. that beautiful 200+ hp GSXR you have would eat tires if ridden well and I assume you can ride it that way. However, average street riders don't need nor can get use out of race tires for the street. Average riders don't have over 200 hp GSXRs, either. So, I put you into the range outside the average. Again, sorry for the bashing and you were right. I was correct to a degree as well and will make an attempt to be more precise when debating.

You talk a lot out of your ass. Wanna show me where the Pirelli guy stated that the race compound tires heat up just as fast as street tires? I used the race track idea for street tires in an effort to point out your buds are doing something wrong if they crash on street tires and seem to think they need race tires for the street... What do I know? You're a street dude who knows everything that you hear from gixxer.com and other pointless forums... Oh well. You win. CONGRATS!

Where are reputal guys saying they are that ratio? 3/16 is pretty close to 1/5 so they may have vague info. 1/6 I think is older stuff... Where was this stated? Let me guess - the vast knowledge base found on gixxer.com?

They aren't doing it right. Ever seen Collin Edwards on Michelin street tires? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alYYU4mTc-g Never an issue. I've also ridden pretty hard at the track on DOT street compound tires. Proper heat up time will allow the tire to work rather well. Of course, it got a little greasy, but rider ability helps, too. Guys crash at the track on the first lap with race tires, too. Cause? Poor judgement usually. Tires don't let go for no reason unless they are worn or not to temp or over temp or poor tire management... I'll give you POS street tires are never any good, but there are some really good street compound tires that at street pace will do just fine...

My issue is that you come on here and are giving a bit of bad info. N Tecs are race compound tires. Race compound tires DO NOT heat the same as street tires. Street tires come to temp quicker and have a compound structure that allow them to work great at street pace. Under your mentality, you can run street compound tires all day perfectly fine at the track. You can, until they get too hot and get greasy as a result. Trust me, I know a few things about tires and compounds and would sell race take offs all day to street guys BUT let them understand that they will take some time to get heat into them. They heat up, but they take longer. Your bike is a street bike, no? I see it has the turbo and the whole nine yards and it is impressive, but you street ride, right? Not sure where I mis-led anyone... Now, if you want to go back and forth, there are some really good Michelin and Pirelli tires suitable for such an application and will get you decent results. N Tecs are full on race tires - not intended for both... Here's a good read for the street guys to understand the N Tec better: http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/whatsnew_article.asp?id=171&monthYear= Here's another showing the benefits of their RACE tire... http://dunlopracing.com/

It would make contact as the cable comes from the inside area outwards. 40,000 miles is cool, but it only takes one time and it isn't too cool... Track day guys like Adam aren't going to want to do this mod at all. Stick with a throttle tube kit that you can buy... As far as what I was saying, again - it is for GSXRs. Not sure what the other guys do...

Actually, the R6 tube is 1/8th - not recommended for a liter bike and the R1 is the in between which is 3/16ths. A lot of racers use these tubes and they work fine. Trust me... But, what do I know, right?

It only takes one screw up and it can hurt a business quickly. If he acted even remotely like was described, I would say he needs to be sat down and told the way you wish him to proceed... Again, you NEED to talk OTD pricing. It is common. Trust me when I tell you I know how things work in a motorcycle shop and in sales. People want OTD price and SHOULD get a price. You adding service, warranty, insurance, etc can be all added later or described in detail while on the phone. People get deals and want an OTD price. It isn't stupid and it isn't something that should be taken as lightly as you seem to be doing. Understand something - there are a LOT of dealers that give stuff away, a lot that play games, and a lot who do stupid stuff like buddy packs. The customers are smart and if they do ANY bit of research, they know what to ask for. If I called and asked OTD on a bike you have, I expect a price for what the unit, Doc fees, license fees, and tax are in total. IF i decide to get GAP, IF I decide to get a service warranty, IF i decide to get an extended warranty, etc., then that can be added later and isn't a concern at the start for most people... Mitch needs to be professional. 450 bikes isn't many bikes per year for a shop and if he had his hand in a good number of them, cool. However, he needs to be professional. Like I said, it only takes once. He wasn't. Nuff said. You CAN fix it and DO have an opportunity to do so. Make your guys act like they should and do not expect less and be aggressive when they aren't acting the way they should. Sales people are the easiest people to handle and train. A great sales person is hard to find - one that can do it rather well. In general, a basic salesman is easy to get and bring up to speed. Therefore, guys like Mitch are pretty easy to come across and if he knows his job can be pulled from him for acting unprofessionally, maybe he'd take it a little more serious, no? Again, good luck.