Moto-Brian

Also, he mentioned that it feels like the rear is on a point in his words and stated that it feels like when he barely leans, it wants to lean more or help more... That is basically saying that it turns in quickly. The diameter of the 190/55 is larger than the 180 he had. Thus, effectively raising the rear which again, is what those bikes needed to handle better. Quicker turn in with a wider tire is what the desired effect should be. That is what the tire is giving him. But, there needs to be a slight raise in the rear and typically lowering the front slightly. Or, raising both ends and jacking the rear more as they suffered from ground clearance issues - more track related than street. Overall, the bike is HEAVY. Stable and flat out one of the best memories of riding I ever had from when the bike first came out and the first RR I ever rode to the latest generation and even the RR version that was produced before they axed the line. I loved the bike. It was a porkly thing, but when you adjusted a few things, it was awesome.

Again, Dunlop is running a 190/55 and a 190/60 even on 5.5 rims all day on the current crop 600s. Now, Dunlops tend to be SLIGHTLY more narrow when compared to another company's 190 rear... But, not much. I was wrong on the front tire - again going from memory and what I could remember. The fronts on a lot of bikes had the shorter profile front for whatever reason and we ALWAYS jumped them up to 120/70 fronts... As for air pressure, the sidewall dictates that. In most cases these days, depending on the tire - even within the same brand - the sidewalls can be different. On the race stuff with Dunlop, we are running 21-ish rear HOT off the warmers and 23-ish right off the track. That's how stiff the sidewalls are on the Dunlop slicks for example. That's a 200 rear... On the fronts, we are shooting for 32-ish HOT off the warmers and 35-ish right off the track... Same with Michelins except we would check cold before warmers and the DOTs for example were around 17-19-ish cold. Fronts were 30 cold. What that means is that you'd bump the street compounds up as they do not have that aggressive sidewall, but the Q2s were getting 26-ish cold on the rears and 29-ish on the front cold. You'd bump slightly for street use... Not sure where you grabbed that info, but here is Dunlop's info for example on the GPAs which you also had listed which is strange... http://dunlopracing.com/tires-products/d211gpa/

Ya know what, you are right on the 190 tire size... I was a year behind. It's what I get for being old!! However, the current crop 600s all have 5.5 rear rims. Everyone runs 190/55s all day... Also, some are using 190/60 on the same rim width...

Actually, you are throwing out a ton of stuff. Things like harping on sag before the other stuff. Sag is about third or more down on the list for street riders and again, it isn't (if done properly) a set it and forget it for the whole year. Most street guys can benefit from setting the suspension to a general spot and then riding it and adjusting to them. Sag is really a track day or race benefit more than street... You do not adjust triples either. You raise or lower the front by raising or lowering the fork tubes. Also, the rear tire being a 190/55 is really the optimal tire choice for the bike vs the 190/50 it came with. That extra height is minimal, but will benefit the handling as it creates exactly what he stated it did - it falls in faster/quicker. On the OLDER chassis designs like the ZX7 he has, it is the way we adjusted the handling of the bikes back then. Worked great... Finally, he has to set the bike for himself for sure. However, he needs to get it to a general setting in an effort to have a good platform to work from. Otherwise, he is turning knobs and clickers and doing all this shit for nothing. All I am saying is that if he wants to PM me and set a time to help the guy set the suspension and see what we can get accomplished, I am available. I think the biggest thing he needs to do now he has new tires is get the suspension refreshed. That will benefit him more than sag or setting the suspension if the oil in the forks is as grey as the sky in winter... But, what do I know...

Tell me when and where ya wanna ride. I am wanting to ride also...

He's passionate and wants to do it badly and MANY a racer has been through this. I have heard some great things about racers, but one of the best ones has been that when you look at a racer standing in front of you, you see a normal dude, looks like any other average guy. BUT, you look over his shoulder and you will see a path of destruction. Financial struggles, destroyed friendships, destroyed families, etc. But, if you ask a racer if they'd do it again, they would say "hell yes!" It's impossible to explain unless you have what lurks inside of us. I've been through it all. Almost divorced twice, put myself in front of family and even my kids, burned up credit cards and beg, borrowed and stole to race. All for a lot less than I put in and we earned some good money... But, as they say: "If ya wanna make a million in racing, you gotta spend two." To answer the way to do it, after doing it since 1993-ish, I will say a few things. One, DO NOT use credit cards as it is too easy and too quick to get you in over your head. UNLESS you can be dedicated to paying them off. For example, I now use mine, but pay it end of month. DO NOT forget the expenses you don't think about. Driving your vehicle means you change oil more often, you wear out tires, you burn more fuel, you wear it out quicker. That's an expense that sneaks up. Food at the track, food that you buy at the store and even though you make PB&Js, there's an expense. It all adds up. Watch the group traveling. You need to make sure that you get the money from EVERYONE at the time you spend it. If a buddy says he will get you back next week or gives you half and you wait and wait for the rest, that adds up after a handful of events. Also realize that traveling far away even in groups is silly unless you get a return. Locally speaking, we have a shit pile of great tracks to race at. Sure, it is cool to drive all the way to Barber for an event or Jennings, but unless you can swing it and understand that the return of "Well, I got to ride Barber" doesn't mean much when the cost to get there and back would have paid for a set of tires AND a race up here, it doesn't make sense. If you think they are faster down south, they are. But, understand that they race those tracks all the time and more often than we do up here. But, they come here and it is the same thing. Know what I mean? Basically, save the money in the winter. Buy tires in the winter. Buy the parts in pieces and like Brandon stated, a lot can be had used that is damn good. Essentially, do what you can, but don't be silly and kill your family life and bank account...

HEY FAG!!! Where ya been? We should do lunch or something when I am passing through Dayton!!

Look, dude... There is starting to get a bunch of crazy info in here. Take this for whatever you wish, but here's my opinion... The 180 is going to feel faster due to the width of the tire. The 55 profile vs the 50 as YSR mentioned is why it will feel different from the stock 190/50 vs what you have now. Will feel faster actually. BUT, if you had a 180 on there (Common tire size), the 190 will feel slower. Benefit of the 190 is a larger tire patch at lean. That's really it. More weight on rotational mass and slower turn in are the negatives. More grip at full lean while allowing for higher corner speed. All that and this shit with sag and everything is great if you are track riding... Here's my tips for you and your bike. I have a few hours of seat time and maybe some miles on this particular machine both at race and street level. The bike is NOT a current generation chassis like we see in 2005 and newer type bikes. The way to speed the handling up is to raise the rear and lower the front. BUT, be careful doing so. You've already raised the rear slightly. Also, if you want the bike to feel great, yes, sag is important. However, sag is pointless if the springs are not correct. All these people with race suspension and riding the street are throwing cash out the window as it is pointless. You can do great things on stock suspension if you set it up well to YOU and to YOUR riding style. Here's a few things to consider doing: 1) Get the forks and shock refreshed. I promise you the oil is pure shit in there. New oil is essential on any bike at times. This is an older bike and the oil probably looks pretty bad... Fresh oil, proper oil height, etc will make a difference. 35 Motorsports. Tell him I sent you. He gives members a discount. 2) Springs. This race shit and mentality is for the birds unless you do track days. BUT, the bike is probably oversprung for you at 135lbs. If you don't do springs, yes, sag is important but unless you constantly chase it (Again, a race mentality), once is going to be fine, but sag will change as you ride. It can be beneficial, but the oil breaks down, etc and will change sag. And, nobody is telling you where to set it and so, really... Just have someone help you set the compression and rebound, try it and see where it is and feels for you. Set the sag to where it will work well and forget it. Knobs clickers even in racing are weird folks. I was never one of them and just rode the bike. Reuben isn't a guy like that either. Adjustments and notes? Yes. Turning knobs every session and multiple laps? For the birds... 3) get a chassis geometry that suits YOU. Again, if it doesn't feel like it turns in as quick as the 180 did? Go back to a 180. The stock tire should have been a 190/50 from what I remember. The 190/55 is what I would stick with. The front is probably a 120/65 also. Throw that in the trash and get a 120/70 front. 3) Tires are different from brand to brand. Not much though. The profiles can be different. It is usually a diameter issue more than profile. Anyone that says the tire feels slower isn't adjusting the chassis to that tire. Change chassis? Get better results. Slap any ol' tire on and hope it works with the same settings you had with a different brand? Yes, will feel possibly different. Hell, may feel better!! In the end, you need to refresh the oil and suspension. Easy and cheap. Then, have Reuben talk to you on setting it up. Springs are like $100 retail. Just get them refreshed and work from there, dude. You'll get so much information from so many different people and many armchair types that your skull will cave in. PM me and we can work on getting you set up and even help set the suspension... Cheers.

Sounds like the other guys are ride sharing so, hitch with Craig and you two meet me and we can pull from here. That would be three of us and allow my son to fit in and we'd be golden. You'd drive an hour to and from, share with Craig from him to me around 2 hours and then share the rest with me...

If you are street riding, it is very similar and really, shouldn't go much differently than your sportbike. But, off road and MX style riding is as they say. In a left hand turn for example, you'd weight the right peg. You keep your body above and center of the bike while moving it left. The arm and hand position should be elbows out and hold the bars like you were turning a door knob. Mostly standing up everywhere also. This allows you to shift weight, stay center and move around. Coming to a corner, drop into the sitting position with the same elbows and hands and weight the pegs and squeeze the tank with your legs when braking. Move forward on the bike and enter the turn and exit out under load. Stand up on exit and repeat. But, again... You really won't be doing this when street riding... The bike is feeling loose most likely due to tires and the skinny chassis. You also need to remember that it is designed to use all that suspension and you probably have close to 11-12" of travel vs 6-7" on a sportbike. It's gonna feel loosey, goosey and all over the place...

Wait, you want to ride share from Indy to 40 miles west? Really? If you were still in CBus, I'd say for sure! But, I am willing to bet that the 40 miles drive for you is something that isn't too hard to absorb...

Sag is important and you are correct that most street guys do not do it, but sag isn't going to change the way the bike turns in for this case... He added a different profile and caused a geometry change. That geometry change caused the bike to handle differently and in this case, really for the better as this bike is in need of chassis changes... He needs to find the sweet spot for the handling and what he wants out of it. For street, he can get away with about the stock setting and this tire. Setting suspension to suit him is also going to be important, but the sag is probably a moot point as the suspension is probably in dire need of a refresh and re-spring. Sag can be set, but he probably will have so much preload to get where he should be that he will cause serious issue in the way the bike rides for the street...

Both days are race days also. It isn't MS racing, but really just a cool time to get in some racing. Think Jennings end of day with a bunch of A group guys... I am in. Again, MS is my focus with the racing this season. But, I need seat time to get my bearings and break this motor in. I may do Nelson, but will know maybe end of the week. I'm not paying the insane later registration fees. That's why I like the Nelson idea as to cost and distance. Putnam will be cool, but it doesn't give any return. It isn't going to be anything but a track day... So, I will find out more info and figure it all out and try and have an answer by end of the week and let you know. I'm all cool with ride share seeing gas is $4 here in MI...

Cool. Let me know. Maybe we can travel over and ride share. Maybe grab Mad or someone also. I will have my older boy and he can help in the pits, etc... I can haul 4 bikes, but 3 is best... That way, we can get a scooter and we can even put bicycles and pit bikes in the back of the van...

Practice for what? If it is for the RRGC, you ought to do the MCRA events with the racing they do. It isn't going to be as fast as the RRGC, but a good way to get in a higher than track day pace and setup for the RRGC... Not to bash the STT event, but it will certainly be stacked and packed...

MCRA and Indy Ducati, I guess... It also has some racing, but would just use it to get some laps and test a bit more. Really hate to go as the track kills tires at speed and is really not an easy comparo to Nelson for suspension... But, would be good to get the bike sorted. The issue is that it is the first track day and will probably be packed like Madcat's lunch if ya know what I mean... That makes for a fairly tough way to get clean laps and dial things in... You'd like it. A corner speed track for sure.

An hour is all I'd need. I am trying to decide if I do Putnam the weekend b4 MS Nelson or come up Saturday for the track day and finish break in then and sort details. I am going to have some suspension stuff to sort through and test and really hate to do it the day b4, but traveling to Putnam for nothing is tough also... What are your plans? Wanna do Putnam?

I gotta get mine down to get some break in time also... Did he give you an idea on cost?

You forgot less power...

Did that exhaust bracket work out? I can't tell if that is it on the pic... Also, let's get that cannister cut down!! That thing is way too long and actually, a hazzard if extending past the rear tire. Hard to tell in the pics. But, cutting it is easy and will not hurt anything performance-wise... Looks good, mang!! Now, how bout a top mount damper! Make ya a deal!!

I think you'd have to be in front for me to the rear and it's size...

Right on it, man. Right to the edge....

I know you have an opinion. But, it reads like you are saying the tires other than Shitgos are all junk and shit based on what you've ridden. The 950 is a porkly beast. Not a street bike really, either... Trust me when I am being as polite as possible - the tires we have run on the Adventure in the different environments at the pace we were running, the Shinko would have died quickly from what you are showing... That ain't a good tire. The Pirellis we run on the Adventure while not a sportbike tire, handles pavement rather well and provides good feedback. It balled up a bit as we were very aggressive, but it wasn't doing what you are having with the Shinko... Bottom line is that you can say you don't like the feeling it provides to you or say that it doesn't suit your needs or what you want out of a tire. The minute you start saying they are shit is the minute I call BS and say what we have done to the tires, you aren't doing to them and they held up fine. Not exactly shit...

I removed all the decals on the Matte Black lid... Ready for a new owner at a fraction of the cost of new!!

I'd say something to oppose that idea. We've run Pirellis on the Adventure at speeds and on terrain that would make you wet your pants. They gummed up a tad, but overall, held up really well... We also have tried the Michelins and they are just as awesome... Plus, off road in a true adventure style off road environment, they are amazing. And, when used in single track situations, worked great... Dunno, but I would definitely would try a set of Shinkos if you bought them and mounted them and then removed and replaced. I'd give you some feedback, but honestly, they wouldn't get anywhere near my bike unless I am testing a set that was full on free and no labor to do it... Otherwise, a ton better options...