Moto-Brian

It was the summer of 1994 when I took the WERA race school at Putnam Park. I thought I had this whole road race thing. Was watching on TV and had been street riding for a few years and had bought a year old CBR600 F2. My father was a drag race guy and we had numerous family friends that were road race car guys. Even one that had qualified for the Indy 500. The point is, I had confidence. I felt good. Real good... Too good... So, went out there on bone stock Bridgestones and everything stock. Back then, even the factory guys were running those stupid flat number plates on the tail sections and guys like Street and Competition sold the molded front plates that fit over the headlight hole... I looked pimptastic. Got out on track and felt like I was so out of element. Totally had issues with the speed, the cornering, the whole deal. The school was pretty basic and minimal. Hell, I didn't even understand counter steering, throttle control, etc. We didn't have track days back then. You raced or you watched. When I bought the bike at the local dealership, they thought it was a joke and never thought I was serious. I bought the whole racer starter kit. Suit, helmet, boots, race set up stuff, bike, etc. All but race tires... So, after the first session, I thought it was nerves and it would get better. I was a serious baseball player and soccer player in high school. Was up for scholarships and was always being pushed respectively by my father. I had this inner competitive drive that refused to give up. But, after the third session, I came in frustrated and really nervous. I told my dad, "I think I made a mistake, pop." I really thought it was something I couldn't grasp ahold of. My dad took me aside and started his typical dad to son talks we always had when I was frustrated. He simply asked me what the problem was. He told me that if I wanted to quit, he would support that and we'd load up and head home with no problem. He said he wasn't going to force it. I sat and thought and I told him that the tires sucked. They really did... So, he asked if it would be better if I had race tires. I said I'd like to try. Low and behold, after buying a set of the magical D364 Dunlops, I had an instant turn around and instant confidence. I made it through the mock race well enough, but my first "official" race was that next day in the 600 production class. Holy shit balls!! I was gridded 43rd in the third wave. Yes, 3rd wave at Putnam Park. I was literally almost at the exit of turn 10 from where I started. I could barely see the flagger! Experts went first and they had a pause. Then they let the second wave go. Then us. I didn't even have a clue how it was supposed to really be. But, did OK and got an OK start. I actually passed a good number of guys, but think it was due to the fact that so many were new like me and were pretty much out of their element. I made it through the 10 lap sprint. I got lapped on the 10th lap by "Revvin" Kevin Rentzel on his super fast Kawasaki. We actually banged fairings in turn 9. He came up on me and stuffed inside. I was holding my line and we touched. Nothing serious, but left a mark on my fairing and exhaust!! Actually, that scratch was there all the way through the next year and up until I got the new F3! But in any case, we talked after and he was awesome. He felt bad, but I felt worse for holding him up if I did. I think I finished in the top 30 overall. I think I passed something like 10-15 riders. It felt like 2 as it was so crazy. But, once that happened in my all orange tee shirt and then the second race at Grattan in the rain, I was officially a road racer. That was a looooooooong time ago!

So, I am looking for car wrapping quality vinyl. I need maybe need 15' or so? Looking for gloss black or matte black. As an idea, I am looking for something similar (actually prefer) 3M Scotchprint Wrap Film or similar...

I'd have to say that we need to hear the other side of the story. It is a bit shitty to come on here and bitch about it when you understand - or, at least you stated you understand. BUT, it is even shittier to sell it to someone else IF told that they were out of town and will get back with them when they return... I understand a dealership if maybe it was a trade in. That may have been the case and if so, that isn't shitty. Reason being is that he gets it sorted and handled easily, gets the tax break, gets the notory issue handled and everything is a done deal and he got what he wanted. I too would have done the same thing... Again, if he sold it after telling you he'd be back - no matter to whom - it was a douche move. But, we need his side of the story. For everyone jumping down his throat due to him being new... WTF? This isn't a new guy issue. This is a guy that no matter if part of the old boy's club or not got possibly screwed on a deal. Now, I say possibly and maybe it was a different story and why a lot of you are jumping his back, but I think newness, where he is from and anything related means nothing...

You've been playin XBox again, haven't you? Don't forget to wake up early for Nelson and not fall asleep dreaming like you are right now. That just happened.

Do it!! Great idea for a thread!!

Bingo. Under 1:30 (good guess huh?) is totally good. Understand one important thing that I actually learned from hero Doug Chandler. We were at Road Atlanta and I hosed the exit of five. I go to look over my shoulder to see where the fast guys were in the practice session. chandler passed me on top of the rumble strips. I went to see him and apologized for screwing his line up and told him I just dirt want to be in the way. His response? "race in from of you. Don't worry about behind you. If you race forward, you'll be fine.". In other words, race YOUR race and just be smooth and consistent. We will get around you. Unless you are Craig... Then, we will go THROUGH you.

Well, way faster than Craig and he others. They really clog shit up. I'd say if you can pull sub :30 at Nelson, do it. It's different for every track due to line of site, length of the track etc. If a 1:40 at Nelson, you're not going to be racing anyone and will struggle with the fact you will get passed no less than 3 times every race. Look, I've been lapped by everyone from a top WERA National guy to Heroes I admire in AMA. It's part of it all at every level. But, if I were lapped 3 times in a pro level race, I'd be black flagged. That is a saftey issue solely. The fast guys are just like any other group. There is a battle within that group. 3 guys blitzing 30 seconds faster in a group can lead to serious issues for everyone. It's. I different if a novice rider enters an advanced group for a track day. It's not safe. Everyone starts somewhere. I did, you did, even Ben Spies did. But, going out in a class where you are well below the pace is just adding more danger to an already dangerous sport.

If you were lapping a guy in 4 laps running :22s, that means he was running something like you mentioned - over :40 per lap. THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE! Trust me, the fact of being 30-31 plus seconds slower a lap for a good number of guys presents a serious danger issue. I know Todd would pull a guy. The closing speeds and the fact if running that slow, the rider most likely will have jitters and be somewhat sketchy out there. If two guys split him like wet, rotted wood, he will most likely get spooked and change his line. That isn't good... 1:40, 1:30 are really Intermediate times at Nelson. Really, unless you can get within 20 seconds of the fast guys, you will be lapped more than once. In a 10 lap race at 30 seconds a lap slower, they would see us 3 times. That's not any fun for them but also dangerous for th others... I don't accept that. I have also seen riders pulled or black flagged. As for the tire comments, you are seeing the light, my friend...

Dude, you are totally fine. My point was directed at guys racing and running street bikes. If they are good enough to race and running a consitent pace and suitable to be out there, race tires WILL make things easier to do in those conditions. I have always stated that street tires like the Q2 are amazing and well suited for I and N levels. Even A groups at times. I think I ran a 1:35 on Q2s at Mid-Ohio the time we had a lap timer on a bike from a KTM employee? They can do what you need them to do. But, I can certainly go a lot faster than that on race compounds. I'd have to look at my times in 2010 at Mid-Ohio when I raced a bone stock RC8R and won the MTT class. We used Michelin Power Ones front and rear. That's honest to God the only thing we added. I didn't even have clip-ons. My bad - we had a 520 kit for gearing and rearsets... And, that 2010 RC8R is lower HP and not as good as the 2011/12 R... Point I am saying is that if you are racing, race tires will assist you more than street tires. If anything, the effort to go even the same pace is enough to allow a rider to focus on important things like feedback and feel than working around the tires...

Uh, not sure where I remotely gave off the idea I was offended. A lot of guys on here will tell you that I am ALWAYS one to help and willing to help anyone at any level. The point I was making was that this is in the road race forum section and talking about the race specifically at Nelson. An intermediate rider that runs track days isn't ready to race. Sorry... Well, let me correct. Not on a 600 or liter bike. Maybe a smaller and somewhat less dense class they could. But, the idea is that the times an intermediate rider would be at would make it somewhat dangerous and they should really consider more seat time at track days to get better with not only their riding, but with traffic management. There hasn't been a single I rider I have seen that manages traffic well enough. I also think Advanced riders aren't ready until they can run a consistent and comfortable pace. That's all. If you are an I guy, don't get offended. Again, everyone starts somewhere. I just believe that you aren't going to get better if you are getting blitzed out there. I think you will improve more by riding more track days and working on key elements.

I think 07s are there. But, we probably won't hit it with each other as the pace is something where we would have to really hammer each other and push. We have too much fun out there and I think it slows us down a tad. But, after looking at WERA and their pace and being dead nut serious, they were only in mid to 09.3 range. We actually ran faster lap times. I know in 2010 with WERA, they were into 07s. But, I think the track fell away a tad this year... Again, I think we may be into 08s this year. Dunno with the RC8 and chasing Justin's cheater bike, but we will try!

If they don't make you better, what do they make you if you run faster lap times? I can put you on 211s and another guy like Wrobel on the same tire. It isn't a comparison, but if I put you both on the same street tire and send you back out, Jeff is still faster, but slower than race tires. That's making him worse than the race tires. Same ability, same bike, same suspension, same everything and even if he set the bike up to adjust for the street tires, he isn't going to pull the same lap times and certainly not the same constant times... I guess I need you to tell me what that result equals... ANd no offense, but the basis of that comparison is that I know Jeff can exceed the potential of that tire. Again, do not take this wrong, but you cannot. Know what I mean? Potential of a piece of equipment isn't how you judge. Otherwise, I should go just as fast as Blake Young on his bike because the potential of that bike. That's nowhere close to reality. But, I will go faster than a stock GSXR. Or, more realisitc ideas? I can run faster on a stock RC8 with GPA211s than I can on a set of Q2s. It is close, but still faster on race tires. The tires made me faster. Faster is better and allows me to do things with the bike that were not allowed on the Q2s. I can still ride a Q2 shod RC8 pretty good around Mid-Ohio for example. But, the times I can run on a 211 shod RC8 is faster and honestly, easier to go faster. Again, limits are limits. But, ability will not excel if it cannot have a solid platform to work with...

We were in 09s last year. I didn't get an 08, but I think he might have hit that... Mostly low 09s...

Again, I have hauled numerous bikes via standard tie downs looped through and using the bars. Doesn't do anything. I promise you that there had to be an issue to snap a bar. No way... The loads you put on the bars under heavy breaking are more constant and heavy pressure... He was doing it wrong. Also, if he has suspension done on his bike and is doing a bunch of track days, he needs to either get the Pitbull system or do the fork bottom tie down method vs what he was or is doing...

As for longevity, that's a loaded question. Suspension setup will hurt or help. Tire pressure will hurt or help. Track will hurt or help...

You heat the right way and let them cool the proper way and depending on your ability, they should last longer.

Dude, we are talking racers here. If you are an Intermediate rider at track days, you really shouldn't be racing. No offense. Plus, how do you explain 2-3 seconds faster? That's better and that is a HUGE differnce. Huge. 2-3 seconds - how much would that cost in engine upgrades? I can run top tier Advanced pace on Q2s. That's a difference of ability. But, I cannot run as fast as I can on race tires. Same ability - difference is in race tires. Plus, getting a good set of tires will make you better because you will be able to do things that will make you faster and help you learn more. No sure why you can say they won't make you better...

That's a really big difference... Plus what JBot stated and that's why street tires limit you when racing. Think about if it is 70 plus degrees also... Street tires are gonna get greasy quicker and certainly have issues for you before race end... If you are ok with riding around a shit tire, cool. But, unless you are running an endurance and have to manage a tire that is smoked and you need to finish your stint, why would you want that result EVERY sprint race you run? Street tires will grease up every race out. They will progress to worse status as the weekend goes by. That $100 savings is trivial. The BStone difference of $60-$70 makes it even easier to decide... Overall, it is your call. But, why run an aftermarket exhaust? Why run rearsets? Why run better suspension? "I'm not fast enough" is BS...

Q can't get them due to licensing and such. STS is the real place to get them or Walt down south... But, you will have to pay for mounting at the track... I think you guys are off on the STones pricing...

You won't get charged mounting at the track if you buy them. Plus, the Pures are a street tire, guys. $100 between street and race... Trust me, the difference is minimal in price. The difference in performance and longevity is going to be big between the two... Get race tires, guys. Don't settle for street tires because you think you are not fast enough. Ask Craig how much faster and how much more confident he was on race tires vs street... Well, don't ask him since he went to the shit Pirellis...

They are spec tires. $399 for the newest compounds. Cheaper for the last year stuff which was very good. Certain compounds are suggested higher than others... They are all priced the same as they are a spec tire and have to be or they violate AMA rules...

No offense, but that is a loser mentality. The fact is that the savings is really minimal. Think wear length, think the fact that you WILL get better. Understand that better tires will make you BETTER. You can settle for a tire that is cheap and that none of the experienced guys are really running and have issues with getting info should something arise that causes issue. I'm pushing Dunlop, but Pirelli would be another better choice or even Michelin. Reason being is there are more guys with your style of bike that run them vs the Stones... What's the savings? $60??

No way, dude... There was an issue with his bar. The load on the bars isn't that much. They would bend before they snapped and have NEVER seen that in the years of racing, working at shops and hauling literally thousands of times...

That's because they literally copied Cycle Synch'd design. Yes, CD II works WAY better... But, they copied and CS is the original guys that had that idea...

there are so many of these battery companies nowadays. It's like cheap helmets... I think the thing you should consider is who the company is and what the specs are. The warmers are the same thing...