Disclaimer

The answer is not more guns I'm gonna post that link in the other thread too... I'm up for a good debate today.

Ohh, but it does. Because that's why we're debating in this thread and that's why Michigan went to a "right to work" state. It's about the unions... that's the ONLY reason right to work laws are on the books -- to dissuade unions. So, it DOES matter. Yet, the coin always seems to fall on blaming the common blue collar worker. Using "the lesser of two evils / cost-benefit" argument for continuing to perpetuate something you think is bad for business makes you a bad businessman. If short term pain would cure a longterm ill, then that makes for a much better cost-benefit case. the Big3 aren't FORCED into signing a contract -- they can hire scabs or retrain commoners off the street for the low skill jobs that people claim the autoworkers have. If they're that low skill that they don't merit the wages they earn, then any burger flipper with or without a GED can be trained to do the same thing, and they'd be lining up around the building for a job like that. I find it sad you use the terms "Luckily" and "disadvantage" when describing blue collar folks trying to earning a living wage for their families. It's even more sad when you consider that it's open and collective bargaining, no one forces either party to sign paperwork. The UAW isn't some big bad boogeyman fighting to keep executive pay in the 7 figures and maintaining golden parachute bailouts for the people responsible for making the business decisions that put these companies in the mess they're in. It's trying to maintain a certain community standard of living for people. What theory? I cited articles that back up my opinions. I also have the firsthand experience and credentials that validate my opinions. You have "Just trust me -- I know how things are" super top secret insider information that would never dare be broached in a public discussion so there's no way I can back it up. That's not really how a rational discussion works man.

All automakers... so that is not inherent to unions. We agree. Again, why is that the unions fault? Corporate agreed to a contract. I can't have a Ferrari because I agreed to a mortgage. Boo hoo for me. Regardless, even if that were true, cite your source that it's workforce related because I have firsthand experience that it's not. I'll stick with GM because that's what I know, but by all means, if you find evidence to the contrary in the other UAW constituent companies, present it. GM workers regularly go on shutdown, and GM has cut hours and production of the Volt due to reduced demand. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/business/gm-suspends-production-of-chevrolet-volt.html?_r=0 You know what they give huge rebates on outgoing models? Trucks. You know what has the highest profit margin? Trucks. http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-gm-pickup-truck-deals-20121218,0,2258198.story So, not only can they afford it, it's got little to nothing to do with the inflexibility as you put it, of the union workforce (as demonstrated by the Volt capacity planning). You're wrong on that point. I addressed this above. It's normally done with trucks and their truck sales have a lot of fleet and government orders that get shifted and moved in and out of the production planning schedule. Again, nothing to do with the inflexible workforce. At the present moment, truck inventories are up, but they're always up in Q3, plus GM is getting ready for a model changeover, so they've built excess old model while the change over occurs. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/12/gm-to-debut-new-full-size-trucks-thursday/ Proof? I've just demonstrated it's not due to worker inflexibility. It's a corporate decision. Plus, the issue that management agrees to the UAW contract still goes unaddressed... but continue to blame the UAW for their "inflexibility" Please, tell me more about my wrongness after I've just provided multiple sources saying I'm not. #CondescendingWonkaPic And they'd be wrong... if they "know" this. Which I doubt they've made any statement as such, but feel free to present the evidence for your case.

http://www.edmunds.com/deals-of-month.html Those are all the deals for this month... Not just UAW mobiles. And what do rebates have to do with profits? Companies are maximizing profit based on the time value of the products the produce, then offering rebates to eliminate old inventory as new product is rolled out... What does the union have to do with any of those corporate decisions?

Rebates are a factor of market demand, capacity planning, and inventory liquidation. What does that have to do with the unions?

Like I said in the Hostess thread... it's funny how it's never the corporations fault. They agree to the union contracts. If it was bad for business then it's on them signing something detrimental to their business. And just like the cop threads -- you let a couple goobers spoil the entire barrel. I'm enjoying my vacation days from work right now. I'm not in a union, but I have these vacation days because of the Labor movement.

Ahhh, so it's our fellow Americans that are the problem... How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/

I thought I spent a lot of time on the internet, but I missed a sh*t tonne of stuff on Youtube apparently. I missed a lot of these references. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCkYw3cRwLo If you get them all, you win at the internets and should try winning outside sometime.

I don't know whether this means there is actually hope that some people value some things more than money, or if this is just a horribly timed op-ed? (The links are cut off, but they are in fact two different stories). http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/wall-street-invested-in-firearms-is-unlikely-to-push-for-reform/?ref=business http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/cerberus-to-sell-gunmaker-freedom-group/?ref=business

Don't confuse "import" and "domestic" for union vs. non-union. Guess how many German automobiles (that are manufactured there) are union? All of them. Japanese Auto Workers (JAW) also... though I can't find the exact makes/models they're producing right now -- I'll keep looking. http://www.factcheck.org/2008/12/auto-worker-salaries/

And those are the word games we play.

"CCW holder doesn't become a victim" would be appropriate. "Elyria man doesn't have car accident with drunk driver today"

Two Kasich related articles. Turnpike will not be privatized: Gov. Kasich won’t lease Ohio Turnpike And the one thing I thought I'd be able to count on a Republican to do, he won't: Gov. Kasich spares the life of convicted killer Ronald Post I forgot this 2011 pardon too: Gov. Kasich spares death row inmate

Your avatar is ironic.

How about Thread Control? There's 3 threads now prompted by the Sandy Hook shootings. There is no "Right to Bear Threads" amendment when this has already been

So, can anyone confirm or deny why the NRA Facebook page was taken down and they stopped Tweeting? http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/nras-social-silence-146007 That's... weird if its true. I get this whole tact thing, but I mean... you need to stand by your views on good days and on tragic ones, no?

Where's the line for the Phalanx's? I want one for the roof of my house with RFID tags I can hand out to people for IFF purposes. All else, trespass at your own risk.

For S&Gs, I google image searched "retarded dickweed" and was sorely disappointed. This was the third result though... which is kind of funny to me.

My biggest fear is idiots on the internet.

Indiana Man With 47 Guns Arrested After Threatening to Attack Nearby Elementary School http://gawker.com/5968863/indiana-man-with-47-guns-arrested-after-threatening-to-attack-nearby-elementary-school

1) Give me your money. 2) ??? 3) Profit. I'd probably just add it to my already diversified mix of mutual funds/bonds. Reinvesting dividends, I've made around 15% over my initial cost basis since I started in 2009. I don't do the fancy schmantsy shittygsxr investing. I'd have to be good enough to make it my fulltime job if I wanted to setup Alaskan trusts (DAPT) and buy covered calls and whatnot. That's a lot of effort for what could end up being a zero sum game if you're not diligent.

If the Port Arthur Massacre is any indication where the US is heading... though I doubt we have the same amount of public support (85% per the articles I've read) on gun control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_%28Australia%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

Yea. I should've been more explicitly clear. "Amish people don't do isht like this."

I remember that, and if I recall correctly, the shooter wasn't Amish... he just happened to commit his crime in an Amish school. If he shooter was Amish, then I'd agree with you.

I love all the opinions of underlying causes... I want a turn This doesn't happen in Amish communities... maybe we should all go the way of Der Dutchman.