i knew that was the one you were going to post. their is a 20 dollar difference between what nick posted to gunit for the 03-09 wheels. the tires that are on there, at least the ones i talked about with him, were old and little tread left. practically useless. it would cost the buyer money to remove them (at least where i get my tires done) and install new tires more than just buying a wheel without a tire already on. so thats extra 20 bucks on top of the install. and their isn't anything in that thread you posted about the quality of the wheels, the bearings could be old or going bad. lots of variables that come into play. the only difference now is the rotors... sure im no expert, i'll give you that. yes you can find better deals if you're patient and do some shopping. i never said this was a steal! i just said its a good deal, which comparing this to that it could be a good deal. just trying to help someone else out thats all, not inflating my balls here. edit: no i read yours once, and the other thread 10 times.