Alright lets see where this thread goes

[Gunner75]

I have a friend of a friend who is bipolar, says its under control with drugs, also states his doctor says he is allowed to own firearms including pistols and would be willing to sign off on a form saying he is good to go for one.

My issue is, being bipolar has some serious complications and Im not sure I would want someone who is bipolar who has to be on medications to control it to own a firearm. Whats the general consensus here?

[Pokey]

It is none of the doctors business whether his patient should be allowed to own firearms, it is the patients right to do so. See this is the slippery slope that we will be sliding down soon, there will be hand picked individuals that will determine your well being and others because of yourself.. What exactly is mental illness, is a bout of depression in your past gonna ruin your chances of owning a firearm, is coming back from war gonna ruin your chances of owning a firearm? There really is no mental illness plan or program that will ever work, too many variables and too many outcomes due to the complexity and randomness of the whole thing. If a mentally ill person wants to kill somebody or do harm....they are gonna do it with whatever instrument of carnage they can get their hands on. We cannot be saved from ourselves, choices are always made whether you are even aware of it or not. The human brain is too complicated of a device, and some folks are just not hardwired right.

[Gunner75]

I see where your coming from, I can honestly say that the person in particular has other mental health issues that are of a concern rather then just his bipolar. Him and I both have a mutual friend who I am very close to who has told me that hes has some bouts when hes slipped up on taking his meds. Now I personally would not stand in his way at owning a firearm assuming hes able to pass the background check. However I wouldn't want to be around him if he did own one giving his propensity to fly off the handle.

[330racing]

Now I personally would not stand in his way at owning a firearm assuming hes able to pass the background check. However I wouldn't want to be around him if he did own one giving his propensity to fly off the handle.

LEGALLY, it sounds as if he is able to own a firearm, but if you are afraid to be around him with a firearm, I would appreciate it you tried to convince him otherwise

Just my HO.

Edited May 8, 2013 by 330racing

[conn-e-rot]

If he passes background then he can own them. It is none of the doctors business or anyone else for that matter.

[Gunner75]

If he passes background then he can own them. It is none of the doctors business or anyone else for that matter.

It is if he's a danger to the public that has managed to slip by. Course we will never know till its too late.

Conne if the guy had schizophrenia and was treated for it under control would you be comfortable knowing he's passed a background check and now owns a firearm?

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[magley64]

Bipolar is an emotional disorder...not so much a mental illness.

[Helmutt]

Has he got ANY experience with guns or is this just one of those "I wanna be cool and carry too" scenarios? If you don't have any luck convincing him to stay away from guns, then the other positive influence you could have on him would be to take him shooting and teach him some gun safety.

Maybe even take a course or two with him. Reinforce proper handling, respect for the weapon, safe practices, etc. Then if he has a raging fit, he will hopefully remember all the good things you did for him and wont shoot you in the face.

[conn-e-rot]

It is if he's a danger to the public that has managed to slip by. Course we will never know till its too late.

Conne if the guy had schizophrenia and was treated for it under control would you be comfortable knowing he's passed a background check and now owns a firearm?

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I don't know the guy so wouldn't bother me one bit but if he ever was to draw down on me he had better pull the trigger because I won't hesitate. Really think about it there are probably 10's of thousands of people with "mental/emotional" disorders walking around with guns every day. Just because he isn't strong enough to control it on his own and needs meds does not make him a bad guy or a criminal so he has as much of a right to buy a gun as you or I do.

Some people might not like me walking around with a gun or some people that know you might not like you owning a gun but that's their problem and tough shit.

[magley64]

Just because he isn't strong enough to control it on his own and needs meds does not make him a bad guy or a criminal so he has as much of a right to buy a gun as you or I do.

Tim, dude... it's not about "strength", it's a chemical imbalance in the brain.

[Scruit]

If he "goes off his meds" then will he be a danger to people?

[Gunner75]

The person in particular, its hard to say with him. He can get really outrageous and irrational when he has an episode.

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[snot]

This goes with the if you have epilepsy but are on meds to control should you drive?

I feel if your on certain meds you should not be allowed to carry a fire arm. Owning is a little different than carrying IMO.

[fizzer]

Bipolar is an emotional disorder...not so much a mental illness.

Please elaborate. I'll get the popcorn.

For those interested, bipolar disorder is defined and classified by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which through its inclusion says that the APA defines it as a mental disorder. (illness is commonly substituted for disorder around the world).

While it is true that bipolar is currently classified under mood(not emotional) disorders, all fall under the hierarchy of mental disorder(or illness). Also notable is the fact that in the new DSM-V being released this year, bipolar will get its own chapter and the hierarchy of it being classified under the subheading "mood disorder" is going away. "Additionally, criteria for bipolar disorder will now include an emphasis on changes in activity and energy—not just mood—to reflect findings from recent research.(APA news update on DSM-V, Feb 2013)"

[Gunner75]

Hell a diabetic isn't allowed to drive unless they have paperwork filled out by their doctor. Why? Because if they have an attack they can't control their vehicle and could potentially kill people.

I believe people above 70 years of age should have to have their skills tested each time they renew their drivers license.

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[Scruit]

This goes with the if you have epilepsy but are on meds to control should you drive?

You need a doctor's note to say that your symptoms have been under control for 6 months, and that you can be relied upon to take your meds, to get an unrestricted license. You need to further renew each year with a doctor's note.

[Scruit]

Has he had any violent episodes since starting to take meds? (ie, Has he ever gone-off-his-meds, or have his meds been shown to be ineffective?)

Define "irrational'. Does he maintain his grasp on reality but act more angry than a normal person would? or does he lose touch with reality and base his decisions upon things that don't exist?

Example: On my law exam I had a question about a woman who believed the driver of the car in fron of her was the devil and she rammed him off the road and tried to kill him. That woudl be a case where she is acting under an understanding of the world that is not correct. In another case a man who was prone to losing his temper killed someone over something minor that anyone else would be simply 'annoyed" by, but his understanding who the people around him were, what had happened to make him angry etc were all correct and appropriate - it was his reaction that was over-the-top.

Think of those people who wind up on the news because they beat up a McDonald's worked because they had no onion rings, as opposed to someone who beats up the McDonald's worked because he believes the onion rings are poisoned.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Scruit

[conn-e-rot]

Tim, dude... it's not about "strength", it's a chemical imbalance in the brain.

Yep and daydreaming is now ADHD.

[snot]

You need a doctor's note to say that your symptoms have been under control for 6 months, and that you can be relied upon to take your meds, to get an unrestricted license. You need to further renew each year with a doctor's note.

So why couldn't this be done for other medical reasons and other privileges? Like a person losing there sanity (schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, etc.).

Not saying I agree with doing this asking...

Edited May 8, 2013 by snot

[conn-e-rot]

So why couldn't this be done for other medical reasons and other privileges? Like a person losing there sanity (schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, etc.).

A doctor can pull your license for many reasons.... we requested my grandmothers license pulled a few years ago all it took was one form from the doc and she got a letter from BMV

[magley64]

Yep and daydreaming is now ADHD.

and people who misbehave or don't learn as quickly have "autism":rolleyes:

just because you aren't affected by a disorder, or just because it may be overdiagnosed in some circumstances doesn't make it any less real of a condition...

[Gunner75]

Has he had any violent episodes since starting to take meds? (ie, Has he ever gone-off-his-meds, or have his meds been shown to be ineffective?)

Define "irrational'. Does he maintain his grasp on reality but act more angry than a normal person would? or does he lose touch with reality and base his decisions upon things that don't exist?

I personally have not dealt with him. My best friend and him grew up together and I trust my friend when he's told me of his outbursts where hes gotten exceptionally angry over little things . I've seen some of his posts on Facebook that make me question his distance from reality. Hes had a few posts that had concerned me as far as his outlook on life and how it sucks, then 2 minutes later he mentions how it would be better if he just rid the world of himself

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[Scruit]

So why couldn't this be done for other medical reasons and other privileges? Like a person losing there sanity (schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, etc.).

Not saying I agree with just doing this asking...

As far as I am concerned:

- If his doctor says he's good to go then he's good to go.

- If his doctor says he is a danger to the public then he should be barred from owning guns, get rid of all guns that he can access (family members can use a safe that he cannot access) and be flagged in NICS.

He also should be allowed a well-functioning appeals process if he disagrees with the doctor.

We're talkign about the recent gun debate being a deflection from one of the larger issues, mental health. Here's where we address it. Mental health records should go to NICS so people who have been deemed dangerous by a doctor who has examined them and knows their condition are not allowed to own guns.

We also need to accept that some conditions are stigmatized inappropriately. If a person is bipolar they may or may not be dangerous when they are in a mood swing - that's something that family/friends/doctor have a better idea about than some zero-tolerance law on all "bipolar" spectrum disorders. People similarly have heard of famous shooters who have autism and say "why does an autistic person have a gun?" Well, because autism is very poorly understood by those not connected to it, and does not actually have any associated unusual risk of violence.

[magley64]

Please elaborate. I'll get the popcorn.

feel free to grab it...

I've lived in a home with a person who has bipolar disorder for many years. It's difficult for them to control their moods, and for no reason at all their outlook will go from happy to inexplicably angry or devastatingly sad. The medicines this person takes helps to control these shifts so that they are less severe and less frequent. As a child, I couldn't understand what made this person angry at me one moment, then exuberant and happy the next. As time went on, I came to realize it was an internal conflict, not anything I had done to cause them to act towards me the way that they did. Now this person has reasonable control over their emotions, thanks to some medication, and some mood management techniques. They still have the disorder, and they struggle with it daily, but it's managed.

The reason I would classify it as an "emotional" disorder more than a "mental" disorder is because this person has full control of their faculties, are aware of reality, and have no hallucinations or breaks with the physical world, the only thing that seems to be affected is their mood, or emotional state regardless of the situation they happen to be in at the time...

Now this person is affected by the events of the world, some things make them mad, some things make them sad, some things make them happy, but sometimes one or more of those emotions will overwhelm this person without any outside stimulus to cause it.

[Bad324]

Yep and daydreaming is now ADHD.

bingo!

I was "diagnosed" with ADHD at 23 (only went to appease my parents) and you know what I did? Laughed directly in the face of the doctor (and later my parents) and said no I just have a short attention span for things I could give two shits about