Drug Testing For Welfare.

[DerekClouser]

Drug tests for government employees? Fuck you very much. It never ceases to amaze me how people are so quick to give up other people's rights. That it's what got us in this NSA mess. First it was just overseas, now the NSA it's giving info on domestics selling drugs to the DEA.

Why government employees? Is it because you think you have some special rights because you pay my salary? Well guess what, I pay yours somehow. I pay it off you work at a motorcycle dealer, or maybe you are the one that makes the f'd up Big Macs I keep getting. Whatever you do I pay for it.

Last big thing for us was forced background checks. New state law about four years ago. We had a 57 year old bus driver, perfect record at work her entire career. No tickets, no accidents....nothing. law passes, she fails because 35 years ago she got tagged for misdemeanor pot. Bam fired and retirement shot to hell.

All because some politician made some feel good law to get re-elected.

Same with welfare drug testing. Stupid feel good law so a politician can get his sheep to vote for him again.

 

No one is taking your rights away from you. No where is it legal in the state of Ohio to smoke marijuana or other illegal drugs.

 

My father taught me a lesson a long time ago, no choices without consequences. You make bad choices, you deserve bad consequences. She made a bad choice to carry an illegal drug and got busted for it. Whether you believe it should be legal or not doesn't change the fact that it's currently illegal. That decision cost her a 35 year tenured job, not some politician. People need to take responsibility for THEIR decisions.

 

And guess what, no one is forcing you to work for the state. If you can't pass a drug test or background check, then work at McDonalds selling those perfect Big Macs you love so much. Maybe then people won't make terrible decisions if they know it'll possibly affect their job down the line.

[magley64]

No one is taking your rights away from you. No where is it legal in the state of Ohio to smoke marijuana or other illegal drugs.

 

What if i go on vacation and visit my great uncle buck in seattle? or aunt anita twice removed in boulder?

 

The fact that it's legal in some states now is enough reason to give up this stupid drug war... that includes drug testing.

 

full disclosure, i got no skin in this game, never tried any illegal drugs.

 

As others have said: high at work? GTFO, points against you, termination if apropo.

Driving while high? busted, jailed, fined whatever..

 

What you do on your own time should be your own damn business.

 

 

In a related note...

http://news.yahoo.com/feds-wont-sue-stop-marijuana-2-states-173520230--politics.html

Edited August 29, 2013 by magley64

[madcat6183]

Serious question, why not just do away with Welfare?  I mean if it's going to cost more to drug tests them, than it would save by catching those doing drugs etc. whats the point of having it at all?  I get unemployment and disability but wellfare?  You get to have a ton of kids, do nothing, and we pay for your insurance, medical, kids, food, living etc.

 

And for the record both of my parents came from dirt, as in no christmas gifts, no birthday presents, cakes, nothing.  I may not have, but I've heard how they were raised and neither families were ever on welfare.  You just dealt with it. 

 

And yes, weed should be legal, and drinking age should be 18.  You can die for our country but not have a Coors Light?  F THAT.

[magley64]

Serious question, why not just do away with Welfare?  I mean if it's going to cost more to drug tests them, than it would save by catching those doing drugs etc. whats the point of having it at all?  I get unemployment and disability but wellfare?  You get to have a ton of kids, do nothing, and we pay for your insurance, medical, kids, food, living etc.

 

And for the record both of my parents came from dirt, as in no christmas gifts, no birthday presents, cakes, nothing.  I may not have, but I've heard how they were raised and neither families were ever on welfare.  You just dealt with it. 

 

And yes, weed should be legal, and drinking age should be 18.  You can die for our country but not have a Coors Light?  F THAT.

 

Clinton eliminated welfare back in 96 between beejays

[DerekClouser]

"No one is taking your rights away from you..."

LoL. Yeah, except the right to do with my body as I fucking please. Just because it's a controlled substance doesn't mean it's not a civil liberties infringement. Exactly where do you rights come from? Mine come with me upon my exit from the canal...and possibly before that.

 

And I'm all for everyone's rights as well,

 

You can do whatever you please to your body, but certain employers and tax payers should have the right to refuse to pay towards people who do illegal activities.

[DerekClouser]

What if i go on vacation and visit my great uncle buck in seattle? or aunt anita twice removed in boulder?

 

The fact that it's legal in some states now is enough reason to give up this stupid drug war... that includes drug testing.

 

Welfare is federally funded. Marijuana is still illegal federally. Therefore, they should be allowed to drug test and marijuana would be a fail and loss of welfare, especially here in OH.

 

This actually was a decent point and I think it could be argued either way, but I'll stick with what I just said to refute. If you were looking at welfare for people in Colorado or Washington, now we're getting into a real tough situation.  As for private employers, I believe it would be up the employer on how they would want to handle this specific situation and employees and potential new hires would adhere to the policies of that specific company.

[Tonik]

 

My father taught me a lesson a long time ago, no choices without consequences. You make bad choices, you deserve bad consequences. She made a bad choice to carry an illegal drug and got busted for it. Whether you believe it should be legal or not doesn't change the fact that it's currently illegal. That decision cost her a 35 year tenured job, not some politician. People need to take responsibility for THEIR decisions.

 

 

She did take responsibility. She plead guilty, did her sentence and then turned her life into a trouble free (remember, not even a ticket) existence for 35 years. She did EXACTLY what is expected of people that break the law. Do the penalty as prescribed by law, and then turn your life around.  And now she gets punished again a second time. That is bullshit.  Do you know how many 'bad' criminals got fired because of this new law. By bad I mean felons, wife beaters, armed robbers and the like.

 

Zero. Not one. In fact, she was the only person I am aware of in the entire State that lost there job because of this new law.  But the folks that wrote that law now run around pointing to it saying how much safer your children are because we passed it.

 

It's a bullshit law that did absolutely nothing.

[DerekClouser]

So, instead of clamoring for the abolishing of drug prohibition, your stance is to side with the lawmakers? I mean, if I have weed in my car and I get pulled over by the police, you believe it's completely just for them to haul me to jail and slap me with a felony charge? Legality aside.. let's look at this from a justification standpoint for a moment.

Do I believe weed is a terrible drug and hurts society? No.

Do I believe heroin is a terrible drug and hurts society? Yes.

If a cop pulls someone over for having weed in the car, do I think they should be arrested? No.

If a cop pulls someone over for having heroin in the car, do I think they should be arrested? Yes.

Do I believe that marijuana will be legalized in the next 10 years? Yes, probably.

Do I believe it will change anything? No, people who smoke pot, will still smoke pot, they'll just be even more open about it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's currently illegal. And if you are going to arrest someone who is carrying heroin, then you need to arrest or punish those who carry other illegal drugs as well and taxpayers shouldn't have to pay to those who commit illegal crimes as the law stands today.

Let me ask you this though... do you want your kids smoking pot when they get older??

If the answer is no, then why?

By legalizing pot, you are still going to get those who smoke pot to continue, and will even invite those who possibly wouldn't have, to do it as well. So do you really want to invite your children and friend's children to smoke pot, when they may have possibly not decided to do it in the past?

Also remember that weed is a gateway drug. Arguments could be made to the addictiveness of the drug, but statistics show that it leads to other drug use.

Edited August 29, 2013 by DerekClouser

[DerekClouser]

She did take responsibility. She plead guilty, did her sentence and then turned her life into a trouble free (remember, not even a ticket) existence for 35 years. She did EXACTLY what is expected of people that break the law. Do the penalty as prescribed by law, and then turn your life around.  And now she gets punished again a second time. That is bullshit.  Do you know how many 'bad' criminals got fired because of this new law. By bad I mean felons, wife beaters, armed robbers and the like.

 

Zero. Not one. In fact, she was the only person I am aware of in the entire State that lost there job because of this new law.  But the folks that wrote that law now run around pointing to it saying how much safer your children are because we passed it.

 

It's a bullshit law that did absolutely nothing.

 

 

Your argument is futile. If you are going to say the law didn't affect anyone, then why bitch about it?

[Pokey]

Pot should be legal....plain and simple. Now it should be no different than alcohol on the job, if you are high you are in trouble. Pot is not a hard drug, it is probably less addictive and harmful than alcohol "hell it grows wild". Now meth, coke, heroin, LSD, crack.......is what many welfare folks are getting high on. THAT IS THE PROBLEM, AND THEY ARE NOT BEING A PRODUCTIVE CITIZEN, plus they are living off of those of us that are. Test way but make mary jane legal damnit!!!!

Edited August 29, 2013 by Pokey

[RCBS]

Insurance companies usually dictate who gets drug tested. Employers can choose not to test and pay higher rates...pun intended. What a person does with their personal time should not be intermingled with what is done while on the clock. IDGAF if one of my coworkers snorted meth out of a hooker's asshole on the weekend as long as they show up and do what they are supposed to do on Monday. If the government were to mandate testing, they should be the first in line. I am in no way religious, but I'll borrow a quote: Judge not, lest Ye be judged first. I'm not talking about toll booth operators either...senate, congress, administrative, judicial, etc. The main drug problem I see these days is with prescription drugs. Phizer and Lily are the new Pablo Escobar.

Edited August 29, 2013 by RCBS

[turnone]

Do I believe weed is a terrible drug and hurts society? No.

Do I believe heroin is a terrible drug and hurts society? Yes.

If a cop pulls someone over for having weed in the car, do I think they should be arrested? No.

If a cop pulls someone over for having heroin in the car, do I think they should be arrested? Yes.

Do I believe that marijuana will be legalized in the next 10 years? Yes, probably.

Do I believe it will change anything? No, people who smoke pot, will still smoke pot, they'll just be even more open about it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's currently illegal. And if you are going to arrest someone who is carrying heroin, then you need to arrest or punish those who carry other illegal drugs as well and taxpayers shouldn't have to pay to those who commit illegal crimes as the law stands today.

Let me ask you this though... do you want your kids smoking pot when they get older??

If the answer is no, then why?

By legalizing pot, you are still going to get those who smoke pot to continue, and will even invite those who possibly wouldn't have, to do it as well. So do you really want to invite your children and friend's children to smoke pot, when they may have possibly not decided to do it in the past?

Also remember that weed is a gateway drug. Arguments could be made to the addictiveness of the drug, but statistics show that it leads to other drug use.

So much full of shit in this argument. Pot is no more of a gateway than alcohol or tobacco.

750,000 Americans get arrested annually fucking up their lives for a natural drug with no overdose deaths ever recorded. Prescription drugs are abused and kill thousands per year. Alcohol and tobacco kill tens of thousands.

I'll chance more people smoking pot and hopefully less drinking. Net positive.

Every civilization since the beginning of time has done drugs. Why do we think we can imprison out way out if that. Here's some insight. We can't.

As far as the kid argument, regulated drugs are harde to obtain than weed. Ask your preteen and teenagers which is easier to get.

[RCBS]

Oh and as far as testing "entitlement" peeps goes...won't work and if it does, which life will a drug addict choose? "no more welfare!?...I better get a job as a gas station clerk for $7.50/hr!". Doubt it. Kick them off welfare and pay for a prison cell...which one is cheaper to the taxpayer?

I don't condone abuse of assistance, but at this point there is no going back.

[turnone]

As far as testing. I've already stated that I don't think we should test people. Just a select few. But the only way to get rid of bullshit laws is for those of influence to feel the pain that the law causes. At a minimum we should drug test the politician involved in making laws.

[Tonik]

Your argument is futile. If you are going to say the law didn't affect anyone, then why bitch about it?

 

Wow, how disingenuous. I didn't say it didn't affect anyone, I said it accomplished nothing. Don't twist my words, my meaning was crystal clear. That is lame, even for the Political sub-forum.

[shittygsxr]

I don't think so...and I think the cost/benefit has already been proven to be a major loser for the taxpayer.

And i know several people who pass drug tests flawlessly regardless of getting high regularly...it's not difficult.

the biggest problem with drug testing is who's gonna pay for it?

Did you do all of those calculations while you were collecting unemployment. Get off your high horse bro

[Steve Butters]

Lol at weed being a gateway drug... I know plenty of fully functional members of society that smoke weed and pay taxes and aren't meth addicted welfare rats. That's just the bullshit they teach in schools trying to get kids to avoid a completely harmless drug. What else can they argue? Hey kids, don't smoke weed because it'll make you feel good and won't harm anyone at all. Right... Gateway drug... Smdh

[shittygsxr]

Lol at weed being a gateway drug... I know plenty of fully functional members of society that smoke weed and pay taxes and aren't meth addicted welfare rats. That's just the bullshit they teach in schools trying to get kids to avoid a completely harmless drug. What else can they argue? Hey kids, don't smoke weed because it'll make you feel good and won't harm anyone at all. Right... Gateway drug... Smdh

I take it you have never watched the documentary walk hard

[Howabusa]

 Perscription drugs are a HUGE problem, the mother of 2 of my granddaughters overdosed & died last weekend from perscription drugs.. Nobody in the whole of human history has died from smoking pot! Pot is not a drug it is a weed that you dry & smoke, but the feds say it is as bad as herion or cocaine. BULLSHIT!

[max power]

Perscription drugs are a HUGE problem, the mother of 2 of my granddaughters overdosed & died last weekend from perscription drugs.. Nobody in the whole of human history has died from smoking pot! Pot is not a drug it is a weed that you dry & smoke, but the feds say it is as bad as herion or cocaine. BULLSHIT!

Agreed. Sorry for your loss.

[Howabusa]

Agreed. Sorry for your loss.

 Thanks.

[magley64]

Also remember that weed is a gateway drug. Arguments could be made to the addictiveness of the drug, but statistics show that it leads to other drug use.

 

Did you ever think that maybe this is the case BECAUSE it's currently illegal?

 

otherwise alcohol would be a gateway drug...

[magley64]

Did you do all of those calculations while you were collecting unemployment. Get off your high horse bro

 

I didn't do ANY calculations, those were done by other entities...

 

and it's not a "high horse" to understand basik maths...

[John]

Also remember that weed is a gateway drug. Arguments could be made to the addictiveness of the drug, but statistics show that it leads to other drug use.

 

 

you know that the gateway drug theory has been largely discredited right?

 

not to mention, post hoc ergo propter hoc... 

 

saying A occurred, then B occurred, therefore A caused B is a fallacy. 

 

its easy to see how silly this really is, and why it's a fallacy... 99% of herioin users drank milk when they were a child... therefore drinking milk leads to heroin use.  makes sense right?

 

 

correlation does not equal causation.

Edited August 30, 2013 by John

[John]

does this include testing for alcohol or tobacco? why should people be drinking beer or smoking cigs while receiving benefits?