Tonik Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 No, it's the republicans constantly bitching that we need voter ID laws, when they're also the ones bitching about how intrusive government is and How the government is passing laws that can't be enforced... IF you truly can vote anywhere, why the hell do we need voter ID laws? Are you one of those illegal immigrants I keep reading about? Cuz it seems like English might be your second language. Yes, the R's bitch about NEEDING ID laws. But you didn't say that the first few times. You said ABOUT ID laws. My response was the correct response based upon accepted best practices with the English language. And speaking of that, WTF does WHERE you vote have to do with ID? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 And speaking of that, WTF does WHERE you vote have to do with ID?If you're voting in your kitchen, who is going to check your id? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 If you're voting in your kitchen, who is going to check your id? Tonic, ahem, I'm going to have to agree with Magley on this one... Voter ID is like redistricting - everybody SAYS they want fairness, but nobody seems to want to agree to the specific rules until they've analyzed how it'll likely affect ballot results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Tonic, ahem, I'm going to have to agree with Magley on this one... Voter ID is like redistricting - everybody SAYS they want fairness, but nobody seems to want to agree to the specific rules until they've analyzed how it'll likely affect ballot results. Two day ban. One for agreeing with the apparently illegal alien and one for mis-spelling my handle. You are right, they all say they want fairness but they don't. And I think by now you all know my position on all of these issues. They all blow dead goats, both sides. I just strive to get other people to be intellectually honest with themselves. And you look like you might be close to getting there when you say the last part there. When the R's trim the length of time I do believe they are doing so because it negatively impacts the Dem base. But come on, how can you not see and accept and acknowledge that Fitz mailing ballots to his 87 percent blue county doesn't impact the statewide totals for the governors race he is running for. How can anyone dispute that he is just as much a dead goat blower as the State GOP legislature? And keep in mind, this issue has been hot here for years, he did the same thing for the last Pres election. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 If you're voting in your kitchen, who is going to check your id? So it's ok for me to order a handgun online from my kitchen too then right? No need for ID right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 So it's ok for me to order a handgun online from my kitchen too then right? No need for ID right?Or clothes. Not that there's anything wrong with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 So it's ok for me to order a handgun online from my kitchen too then right? No need for ID right? I'm not talking about online, I'm talking about mailing in a ballot....can you mail order guns? I dunno, I've never tried...Have no use for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I'm not talking about online, I'm talking about mailing in a ballot....can you mail order guns? I dunno, I've never tried...Have no use for one. Yes, you can mail order guns. But they have to be shipped to a local gun dealer then you have to show ID to get them. Now that you know how it works, answer the question. No ID for mail order guns either, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) Yes, you can mail order guns. But they have to be shipped to a local gun dealer then you have to show ID to get them. Now that you know how it works, answer the question. No ID for mail order guns either, right? Votes don't blow big life threatening holes into people's bodies... once they do then we can start regulating them like firearms. Edited April 10, 2014 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Votes don't blow big life threatening holes into people's bodies... once they do then we can start regulating them like firearms.No just their businesses and wallets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) Votes don't blow big life threatening holes into people's bodies... once they do then we can start regulating them like firearms. The families of 4500 soldiers killed in Iraq would disagree with you. Votes do cost lives, all the time. So, now that we agree on that point we agree that its either ID for guns and votes, or no ID for either right? I suspect though that you will continue to be intellectually dishonest and we won't be in agreement. Edited April 10, 2014 by Tonik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 You're own your own with that comment Magz. Votes very much influence where we go to war, what companies we bail out, social program and defense spending, who controls your bedroom and a woman's body and a plethora of things totally worth mentioning but I'm on a short lunch break. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Agreeing with Tonik - many repubs know this and have crunched the numbers. They're ginning up a sense of crisis to require voter IDs, limit mailed ballots, return times, etc. in a way that sociologically tips the scale towards their camp. Many dems want the opposite - to include everyone, not just because that's what the founding fathers wanted (as they repeat over and over), but also because they've done the math on whose votes would be disenfranchised. The exact same thing happens with district gerrymandering of course and any politician that doesn't claim partisan bias on either topic is a liar. Personally I believe that voters should ultimately present a reasonable proof of identity, but I don't call for changes at this time. Why? The problem is that many, many legitimate citizens lack sufficient state ID cards (like a driver's license) or national IDs (like a pilot's certificate or military ID), often due to socioeconomic factors and indeed, those citizens would be disenfranchised. If repubs were sincere about eliminating potential fraud while appreciating that a vote is a right, they would sponsor dollars to get valid IDs into the hands of every legal citizen who doesn't have one, AND they would say they're willing to pay for more accessible voting channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 The problem is that many, many legitimate citizens lack sufficient state ID cards (like a driver's license) or national IDs (like a pilot's certificate or military ID), often due to socioeconomic factors and indeed, those citizens would be disenfranchised. If repubs were sincere about eliminating potential fraud while appreciating that a vote is a right, they would sponsor dollars to get valid IDs into the hands of every legal citizen who doesn't have one, AND they would say they're willing to pay for more accessible voting channels. I agree. There should be 'free' ID for everyone, and ID laws should be delayed or phased in to allow peeps to get this ID. It amazes me how different we are on that than Europe. Last time I was over there you couldn't wipe your ass without valid photo ID. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I agree. There should be 'free' ID for everyone, and ID laws should be delayed or phased in to allow peeps to get this ID. It amazes me how different we are on that than Europe. Last time I was over there you couldn't wipe your ass without valid photo ID.If photo id's are free, I'm for it, until then, I've never heard of someone going ona voting spree and killing dozens of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 KABUL, Afghanistan — Afghans braved the rain, muddy streets and possible attacks by militants to head to the polls Saturday,voting in what turned out to be a mostly peaceful election that marks the first transfer of presidential power since the Taliban fell in 2001. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/05/afghanistan-elections/7343425/They have voter ID cards so they can vote in Afghanistan, a place where you would might expect to have troubles. I can't buy the argument that voter registration is racist. Or that having an photo id card is racist. Or that the 'dis-enfranchised' are being discriminated against.It seems that only the democrats complain about the idea of photo ID. The objections would have a lot more credibility if they were bipartisan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I can't buy the argument that voter registration is racist. Or that having an photo id card is racist. Or that the 'dis-enfranchised' are being discriminated against.It seems that only the democrats complain about the idea of photo ID. The objections would have a lot more credibility if they were bipartisan. No, they wouldn't... fact: Republicans do better in elections when voter turnout is low..period.Any means of supressing votes = better election results for republicans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 No, they wouldn't... fact: Republicans do better in elections when voter turnout is low..period.Any means of supressing votes = better election results for republicans. Street, Magz is right about this, and the US hasn't historically been ruled by a military state that established a national ID, so any comparison with Afghanistan is a poor one at best. Interestingly, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of republicans AND democrats would be staunchly against universal ID assignment for fear it would be used to track the movement of people, firearm transactions and more. Or are you saying you're in favor of an ID system similar to Europe's? Like I said, pay for universal IDs and I'll be right there with ya requiring them to vote, but until then, ID laws = voter suppression that asymmetrically favors the GOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) No, they wouldn't... fact: Republicans do better in elections when voter turnout is low..period.Any means of supressing votes = better election results for republicans. Street, Magz is right about this, and the US hasn't historically been ruled by a military state that established a national ID, so any comparison with Afghanistan is a poor one at best. Interestingly, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of republicans AND democrats would be staunchly against universal ID assignment for fear it would be used to track the movement of people, firearm transactions and more. Or are you saying you're in favor of an ID system similar to Europe's? Like I said, pay for universal IDs and I'll be right there with ya requiring them to vote, but until then, ID laws = voter suppression that asymmetrically favors the GOP. Another way of saying this would be that more of the Repubs base vote all the time in in every election than do Dems. Which isn't the same thing but gets you the same result. So the claim of voter suppression seems like it holds water when in fact it is comparison between a causation without a matching correlation. In short it's a 'Bait-and-switch' argument. Saying it is so does not make it so. Voter ID laws do not equal voter suppression. That argument can't be made for just the reason I pointed out. If you want to make that claim fine, get a better argument. Your right about the universal ID being an issue that isn't popular with anybody for just the reasons you mentioned. Yet we still have voter registration but no verification to see if your even a citizen. Without verification why have registration at all? Either do it or don't do it. On the other hand how do we feel about dead people voting? With or without ID I'm thinking we can all agree that this is not a good thing. It does seem that the way to find out if they are is a voter ID law to force voter registrations to check. Which is a side effect of Ohio's law and also the one in North Carolina and at least 28 other states it would seem. Voter registration, it's not just for jury duty. In interesting aside to this, if I believe a fast check on line, there are more Repubs than Dems which might also explain your voter suppression theory. Check it out - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S._states so any comparison with Afghanistan is a poor one at best Be careful with your assumptions here. She is shown with a voter ID card, not a mandatory universal ID card.Note the photo, that was the point, even there they want a photo. Ohio non-driver ID $8.50 - Not that hard to get.http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/fees_for_services.stm Edited April 12, 2014 by Strictly Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 $8.50 is 2 or 3 meals for some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 The government gives everything else out to the poor or lazy anyway so might as well give free IDs if they are gonna want voter id laws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) $8.50 is 2 or 3 meals for some people. The dead only eat brains which are free, everybody knows that. The government gives everything else out to the poor or lazy anyway so might as well give free IDs if they are gonna want voter id laws Interesting also is the Dems using the IRS to target voter registration drives but only if they are Repubs or Tea Partiers. Oddly enough they have no problems with the Greens or the Communist party. Dems also are de-facto buying their voter base with your money in the form of entitlements. Not quite so noble when you look at it that way. Edited April 12, 2014 by Strictly Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 The dead only eat brains which are free, everybody knows that.Interesting also is the Dems using the IRS to target voter registration drives but only if they are Repubs or Tea Partiers. Oddly enough they have no problems with the Greens or the Communist party.Dems also are de-facto buying their voter base with your money in the form of entitlements. Not quite so noble when you look at it that way.Oh yea, because retirees in sunny climates pulling down social security, Medicare, Medicaid, prescription benefits and paying minimal taxes are SO liberal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Oh yea, because retirees in sunny climates pulling down social security, Medicare, Medicaid, prescription benefits and paying minimal taxes are SO liberal... The IRS did in fact do this. Lois Lerner is in contempt of congress for it right now. And they were in fact selective over who they targeted. I'm not sure I get the point of your post. Your saying Florida is conservative? Or not? In your statement you selectively choose old retired people "in sunny climates pulling down social security, Medicare, Medicaid, prescription benefits and paying minimal taxes" as some kind of "class envy" point? Or what? I'm a little slow before my second cup of coffee, I'm missing your point. Old people who paid into the system their whole lives and are now getting less than 1/10th of 1% back on their investment are bad people because... Paying minimal taxes as they have a small income is bad, why? Sorry, I'm just not getting your point here. Edited April 12, 2014 by Strictly Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Why do we keep using the euphemism "entitlements"? What you really mean is Democrats are buying votes with food stamps and unemployment benefits... Yeah let's stop giving people food stamps, then they'll start voting for fucking Republicans, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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