Uncle Punk Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/rqeGNTP.jpg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Regarding possible injuries to Officer Wilson, so far I've read:1. Broken orbital bone (possible hoax per Scruit's link)2. Severely beaten3. Beaten nearly unconscious4. Repeatedly punched in the face If any of those were true wouldn't Wilson have been visibly injured after the shooting? If an officer is injured isn't it normal operating procedure for an ambulance to be called to the crime scene to assist the injured officer? None of that happened. Wilson is going about his business like nothing happened to him. See photos on this link:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2728166/Video-shows-cop-shot-Michael-Brown-pacing-lifeless-body-immediately-firing-six-shots-teen.html Here is the video of Officer Wilson walking around after the shooting. There is no ambulance, no medical attention, not even an ice pack. Hell, he's not even holding his alledgedly severely beaten and severely swollen face. I'm afraid I can't believe that the officer had any significant injury until I see some concrete evidence that proves otherwise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSy69cbDXsk Edited August 22, 2014 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/20/kajieme-powell-shooting_n_5696546.html 3 miles from the ferguson shooting, sounds like this happened on tuesday. Warning, video of the actual shooting is at the link. So, this Kajieme Powell...did this guy warrant a shooting? (NOT SAYING THIS GUY WASN'T A MORON, WHO WAS ASKING TO BE SHOT) But, I have a hard time dealing with the variance between the "description" of the shooting by the officers initially and what appears to be the actual reality.Why wouldn't both officers firing tazers be effective here? Or the youtube video link here: Suspect was using deadly weapon (knife) and met with deadly force. A taser isnt always effective, sometimes it gets caught up in clothing, a prong might miss etc. This guy was an immediate threat to the life on those officers, and clearly didnt care if he got killed doing what he was doing, which makes him an even bigger threat. Seriously....you see a problem with how that went down? If you have a knife, and youre approaching officers and refusing to follow orders all while yelling "shoot me" and advancing on them....you dont think that warrants use of deadly force? youre seriously saying the only time a gun is justified is when? when the assailant starts shooting at cops first? Fuck, a cop has to get fucking shot before he can use his own weapon to defend himself, to be considered right to some people....i bet even then, people would be all like "well, joe shot the cop, but during his magazine reload he wasnt a threat anymore so he should have been shot with a bean bag" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 They posted a grainy video of Zimmerman which people said disproved his injuries. Then a hi-res pic showed them. This video proves he wasn't "holding his head" or staggering etc, but does not disprove injuries. Does not prove injuries either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigd Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Suspect was using deadly weapon (knife) and met with deadly force. A taser isnt always effective, sometimes it gets caught up in clothing, a prong might miss etc. This guy was an immediate threat to the life on those officers, and clearly didnt care if he got killed doing what he was doing, which makes him an even bigger threat. Seriously....you see a problem with how that went down? If you have a knife, and youre approaching officers and refusing to follow orders all while yelling "shoot me" and advancing on them....you dont think that warrants use of deadly force? youre seriously saying the only time a gun is justified is when? when the assailant starts shooting at cops first? Fuck, a cop has to get fucking shot before he can use his own weapon to defend himself, to be considered right to some people....i bet even then, people would be all like "well, joe shot the cop, but during his magazine reload he wasnt a threat anymore so he should have been shot with a bean bag" No, not what i'm saying at all. I didn't see a knife, nor was it "over his head" as was discussed by the officer in charge. If there's truthfully a knife (that he was brandishing aggresively), that changes my opinion of the situation, dude should have been put down for sure then...but it certainly doesn't seem like they were too inclined to disclose the actual details of the situation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Suspect was using deadly weapon (knife) and met with deadly force. A taser isnt always effective, sometimes it gets caught up in clothing, a prong might miss etc. This guy was an immediate threat to the life on those officers, and clearly didnt care if he got killed doing what he was doing, which makes him an even bigger threat. Seriously....you see a problem with how that went down? If you have a knife, and youre approaching officers and refusing to follow orders all while yelling "shoot me" and advancing on them....you dont think that warrants use of deadly force? youre seriously saying the only time a gun is justified is when? when the assailant starts shooting at cops first? Fuck, a cop has to get fucking shot before he can use his own weapon to defend himself, to be considered right to some people....i bet even then, people would be all like "well, joe shot the cop, but during his magazine reload he wasnt a threat anymore so he should have been shot with a bean bag"I like you. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 They posted a grainy video of Zimmerman which people said disproved his injuries. Then a hi-res pic showed them.This video proves he wasn't "holding his head" or staggering etc, but does not disprove injuries. Does not prove injuries either.You're right. It doesn't prove he wasn't injured. But it does suggest that. If the other officer took a long hard look at the side of his face, or if there was a paramedic shining a light in his eyes checking for a concussion that would better support the injury claims. If there were any injuries, his actions make it appear that they were not severe, or at least did not require any immediate attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiomike Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Legally the robbery is largely irrelevant other than the fact that it adds to the reasons for Brown to struggle to get away. Just robbed a store a cop I'd coming back to confront you? Fight or Flight kicks in real fast.Yep, no direct bearing, but it could help explain his demeanor at the time, something worth noting imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yep, no direct bearing, but it could help explain his demeanor at the time, something worth noting imho. It's only natural for people to ask themselves "Is it more likely that a police officer with no disciplinary record lost his tempter shot a surrendering man knowing there was a witness 5' away? Or that a robbery suspect fought with the officer to escape because he was afraid of getting arrested?" It is also possible that all the eyewitnesses are correct. BOTH the hands-up and the charge could have happened. He may have put his hands up initially, then charged at the officer - or he may have charged at the officer then put his hands up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Something I noticed on the other St.Louis shooting (the guy with the knife) that nobody is upset about... After the man hits the floor 2 more shots are fired over a second? Why is nobody upset about this? Shooting starts shortly after 1:37 in this video. Why is nobody pointing out that the last 2 shots were fired at a motionless man lying on the floor completely incapacitated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadTrainDriver Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm upset over the shooting of the guy with the knife...upset for the LEO's involved that had to shoot the guy...and that's where my "upsetness" ends.Suicide by cop is nothing new, and is only a tragedy for the LEO's forced to carry it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) I'm confused why nobody pointed out these last two shots. Not saying the first few were not warranted... Edited August 23, 2014 by Scruit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 I watched it on my phone and could see he was moving even after the last shots were fired. Not sure what you're seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadTrainDriver Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 At least the dead guy had the preconceived kindness to steal two cold drinks for the LEO's to drink afterward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 I watched it on my phone and could see he was moving even after the last shots were fired. Not sure what you're seeing. Last two shots, he was on his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadTrainDriver Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Last two shots, he was on his back. Ya...with a knife in his hand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ya...with a knife in his hand! Was he still trying to attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadTrainDriver Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Knives can be throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Don't know the details on this one. Could a taser have stopped him? Who saw the video of the MO cop who was willing to do a "bunch more killing." http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/missouri-police-officer-suspended/index.html?hpt=hp_c2 Edited August 23, 2014 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Knives can be throw. That is a stretch. Anyways, my devil's advocate streak comes to an end here. The reason I don't personally consider those last two shots be be an "execution" is to do with reaction time. It takes time to react to the fact that someone is attacking you, and it also takes time to react to the fact that the person has stopped attacking you. The first shots were justified in my opinion, he was clearly advancing with a deadly weapon. The last two shots, and indeed the couple of shot before those, happened when he was falling or had fallen. Over that second, the officers had to perceive the change in circumstances and react appropriately (stop shooting). How much time does the officer need to react to this? I'm not an expert, but I say a second is not enough time for the officer to process the new information. The reason I'm even bringing this up is that the officer in the Brown case clearly fired at least one shot into Brown while Brown's head was facing the ground. That's not really a "charging" position (unless you're doing jujitsu and "shooting for the legs"). That strikes me as more of a "falling" position. The first few shots hit his arm and he began to fall, and the last shot caught him falling. A key question would be if any significant time passed between Brown beginning to fall and the last shot. The witnesses would certainly be asked about that. - If that amount of time was a second or less then it is likely to be considered to be Brown 'falling" and the time would be faster than the officer's ability to perceive, parse and react to the change in posture and recognize that the threat is stopped.- If that amount of time was several seconds (meaning Brown was kneeling or doubled-over rather than falling) then that becomes a huge problem for the officer as a jury would very likely conclude that not only had the threat stopped, but that a reasonable officer would have had time to see that and stop shooting - meaning that the last shots could be perceived as punitive not preventative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Don't know the details on this one. Could a taser have stopped him? Who saw the video of the MO cop who was willing to do a "bunch more killing." http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/missouri-police-officer-suspended/index.html?hpt=hp_c2 Taser is a one-shot deal. If you miss then the taser is limited to drive-stun mode, assuming the darts don't short out. A Glock gives you more than a dozen chances to stop the guy approaching you with the knife. I don't have a problem with this guy getting shot. The officer has a right to free speech, however if any of the opinions that he holds impact his work in a way that would be illegal or in violation of policy - or creates a reasonable suspicion that it might, then I can see him being suspended while it is determined if he is safe to continue being a police officer. Free speech does not protect you from the consequences of what you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Trust me, I would rather carry a Glock than a taser. I think every time a cop fires there needs to be questions asked and perhaps an investigation. To a degree that does happen. It's more effective in some jurisdictions than others. What was the link in this thead like 8 billion post ago?..out of 1,100 police shootings in Wisconson all 1,100 were found to be justified. Come on. I think many American citizens are losing faith that our justice system can keep police officers from violating civil rights or punish them when those violations occur. What happens behind the Blue Line protects officers...citizens not so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Was he still trying to attack? So police should just shoot to incapacitate huh? My feelings on the matter are.....empty the damn magazine in them. Police are not known for their overall marksmanship and accuracy, then add in a very stressful situation and things get worse. Police do seem to have to get hurt before using what many deem as excessive force, but easy for us to judge when we are not soldiers or in law enforcement. If somebody comes at me to do me harm or enters my home uninvited to do who knows what, you can be assured that I will be firing more than one round into them. Adrenaline is a crazy thing, and I fully believe in some situations we just blackout and are in survival mode. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) So police should just shoot to incapacitate huh? My feelings on the matter are.....empty the damn magazine in them.Couldn't possibly disagree more with this. I'm sure your feelings would be MUCH different if said magazine was emptied into a friend or family member. When a Marine or soldier empties a magazine into an enemy combatant that is completely within mission. However, the mission of police is to enforce laws and protect rights of citizens. We have a HUGE problem when police start treating citizens like the enemy.. Edited August 23, 2014 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Couldn't possibly disagree more with this. I'm sure your feelings would be MUCH different if said magazine was emptied into a friend or family member. When a Marine or soldier empties a magazine into an enemy combatant that is completely within mission. However, the mission of police is to enforce laws and protect rights of citizens. We have a HUGE problem when police start treating citizens like the enemy.. And yet all throughout this country every single day, we do not hear of too many bad run ins with police and them abusing their power. But oh when they do it is all on tape and it is plastered all over every social media and news source out there. And I have to disagree with you on treating citizens like the enemy, because it sure seems to me like many times they are very much in fact the enemy....they are my enemy with many of the choices they make and the lives that they live. Choose to make a really bad decision or choice, and there are sometimes dire consequences to pay, stupid hurts man......it hurts. And the friends that I tend to choose and hang out with and especially my family members, are extremely unlikely to ever put themselves into a bad situation like what has played out as of late with certain individuals in the media. Break the law like some "choose" to do, and I have no sympathy for them if they get taken down by the police or by an innocent citizen trying to protect themselves. I agree that police can at times take things too far and we should be concerned, yet we should also be very concerned with the society we have become as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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