Why it should be harder to get a motorcyle license in U.S.

[Tonyblaze]

I'll admit the first time I ever touched a bike was in the MSF class. Completed it and was still nervous as hell. Drove to Chicago, picked up a SV650S. Didn't have the skills to properly ride it so waited until the wee hours of the night and rode in the Metroparks for a few weeks until I got the nerve to go in real traffic. Just dumb luck I didn't kill myself before gaining enough basic skills to control the thing. 

[hiro]

It's also situational awareness. That's a major factor on the street, I think. Unfortunately, some people only learn by facing real danger.

My son avoided something potentially fatal. He noticed a car with no intention of stopping at an intersection. He hit the horn (which is something I almost never do) then realized that he was still driving toward the intersection. So he slammed on the brakes, activating the ABS. Good! Nothing happened. (Later I explained to him to also be watchful for a potential rear impact.) It wasn't so much the ABS or horn that saved him, or the fact that he refused to take the driving course at Mid-Ohio.

Coming home tonight, a young cat was crossing in front of me. Cats aren't like squirrels usually, but they're most likely to get hit during their first year. Cat got to the middle of the road, but there was a jogger on the far side. Sure enough, the cat turned around. I had already slowed down by then. No problem. Doesn't seem like much, but it could have been for the cat, and who knows what cascade of events were avoided?

I remember the first time I rode in traffic. The cars seemed so big! Might have been worse if I were on a low cruiser!

[JustinNck1]

As far as basic bike handling skills go, I think it's hard to beat starting on a dirt bike offroad. I rode quads and dirt bikes in my early teens which made transition to street bike easier. This doesn't train you for dealing with traffic though.

[hiro]

1 hour ago, Isaac's Papa said:

I had a solid 3 years of riding under my belt before taking the MSF course. I could see how it might not be adequate for a total newbie. This is where a tiered system is beneficial. Lyns spent the first 1500 miles of her motorcycle career on a 50cc scooter. That way she could learn to navigate traffic without the need of a more advanced technical skill set. This is probably how I'm going to set Isaac up. Same scooter, too. She still rides it  

The problem I see with a low-power vehicle is being more vulnerable in traffic. I even felt that way on the 300, unless I were between 2nd and 4th gear and not already at highway speed. In a controlled area, lower power would be excellent. I used a 200cc bike during my class. I like the dirt bike idea, but there are more parking lots than access to dirt as far as I know.

[JustinNck1]

2 minutes ago, Isaac's Papa said:

If you're not comfortable with traffic, stay out of traffic. 

THIS. The sad part is people don't think logically and then get themselves into bad situations.

[motocat12]

18 hours ago, hiro said:

 

Coming home tonight, a young cat was crossing in front of me. Cats aren't like squirrels usually, but they're most likely to get hit during their first year. Cat got to the middle of the road, but there was a jogger on the far side. Sure enough, the cat turned around. I had already slowed down by then. No problem. Doesn't seem like much, but it could have been for the cat, and who knows what cascade of events were avoided?

 

:shrug: 8 lives left

[dorset]

5 hours ago, Isaac's Papa said:

I had a solid 3 years of riding under my belt before taking the MSF course. I could see how it might not be adequate for a total newbie. This is where a tiered system is beneficial. Lyns spent the first 1500 miles of her motorcycle career on a 50cc scooter.

^^^this is intelligent. i first fell down six hours after getting on my first motorcycle, because i was trying to learn too many skill sets at once. my 107-pound daughter just finished her ohio MC class, and we'll start her out on something that will let her concentrate on traffic skills without also having to deal with hard acceleration/braking/weight.

[whaler]

6 hours ago, Isaac's Papa said:

I had a solid 3 years of riding under my belt before taking the MSF course. I could see how it might not be adequate for a total newbie. This is where a tiered system is beneficial. Lyns spent the first 1500 miles of her motorcycle career on a 50cc scooter. That way she could learn to navigate traffic without the need of a more advanced technical skill set. This is probably how I'm going to set Isaac up. Same scooter, too. She still rides it  

My son spent 3000 miles on a moped the last two years and moved over to the motorcycle pretty easy.

I have mixed feeling on the training classes. Yes they help the very new or unskilled rider, but they also teach some things I consider bad habits. My biggest complaint is the competence of some of the rider coaches... have seen many who should not be riding let alone teaching. Brooks will travel and do his class with @jacobhawkins 

Edited August 23, 2017 by whaler

[hiro]

For reference, here's a list of LAMS approved novice bikes. It's based on power to weight ratio. http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/licence/approved-motorcycles-for-novice-riders.pdf

[jacobhawkins]

2 hours ago, whaler said:

My son spent 3000 miles on a moped the last two years and moved over to the motorcycle pretty easy.

I have mixed feeling on the training classes. Yes they help the very new or unskilled rider, but they also teach some things I consider bad habits. My biggest complaint is the competence of some of the rider coaches... have seen many who should not be riding let alone teaching. Brooks will travel and do his class with @jacobhawkins 

Only class I have left this year is in Rio Grande September 16/17. If you guys come down for that it would be great, but that's a hell of a drive.

[hiro]

Positioning the bike on the road and at intersections took some thought sometimes. That was covered at the BRS course...in a classroom. Be visible and claim your space without becoming vulnerable.  I guess you don't need to know that stuff on trail.

[JustinNck1]

22 minutes ago, hiro said:

Positioning the bike on the road and at intersections took some thought sometimes. That was covered at the BRS course...in a classroom. Be visible and claim your space without becoming vulnerable.

I call it my "Exit Strategy". If I see someone approaching at a high rate of speed, I want a way out to avoid it.

[hiro]

2 hours ago, JustinNck1 said:

I call it my "Exit Strategy". If I see someone approaching at a high rate of speed, I want a way out to avoid it.

Right. At a stop I'll leave a little room and/or angle the bike in case I need to bolt.

One bad thing I did was move way to the right to make a right-hand turn. Probably made me less visible and allows another vehicle to get up next to me. Waiting for a left turn, sometimes I stay to the right of the left lane where cars tend to cut the corner. There are just more options when on a single track vehicle. Some are better than others.

Edited August 24, 2017 by hiro

[serpentracer]

old thread but I just wanted to add my 2cents.   I would recommend the motorcycle ohio classes over MSF all day.  for one they're the same thing but far less expensive.  offered in way more locations and easier to get enrolled due to how many places have the classes.  

https://services.dps.ohio.gov/MotorCycleOhioTraining/student/Home

Edited April 14, 2019 by serpentracer

[serpentracer]

in case the above link changes over time,   https://www.motorcycle.ohio.gov/

[Gixxus Christ!]

Put the shovel down and back away from the tombstone sir.

[SpecialEd]

On 8/24/2017 at 7:13 PM, hiro said:

Right. At a stop I'll leave a little room and/or angle the bike in case I need to bolt.

One bad thing I did was move way to the right to make a right-hand turn. Probably made me less visible and allows another vehicle to get up next to me. Waiting for a left turn, sometimes I stay to the right of the left lane where cars tend to cut the corner. There are just more options when on a single track vehicle. Some are better than others.

I was once clipped and very nearly run over by a cager driving a large SUV turning left while I was stopped at a red light. The driver was not looking where she was going, and was instead WAVING at someone across the street. She knocked me off the bike and dragged me a few feet before stopping. I had witnesses, and let her know this when she exited the vehicle to yell at me for calling the cops, telling me she knew this accident was going to "cost" her, and that she couldn't afford money for a law suit because she had to send her kids to summer camp. I sued her and won, but nearly paid for her distracted driving with my life.

[Parrot]

On 8/22/2017 at 7:12 AM, flashesbuck said:

I need to correct this. Ohio's is $50 for the BRS (basic Rider Course) not affiliated with MSF anymore. MSF did raise the price for a student to $100 this year, but Ohio is not recognizing MSF anymore.  Motorcycle Ohio is working hard to get an advanced course together now. But the new BRS is a whole new ball game and would recommend it to everyone to take it. The last class I taught a few weeks ago had 3 "no shows". So that's 3 open seats. And they are only getting more empty this time of year, and the weather has been phenomenal! 

This is correct. I took the Motorcycle Ohio course last fall and I have to say that it is both easier than what I have read about the MSF (No Box) but, they do work hard at teaching you to think about being in traffic. 

I would love to take an advanced course as well but, the only one in my area was full months ahead of the start date. I hope they get more setup soon. In the meantime I am sticking to researching riding techniques and continuing to practice and not just take the same roads everyday.

I do think that just requiring that everyone take motorcycle Ohio in order to get your initial endorsement (no matter how much practice you already have) and requiring that anyone looking get back to riding take a refresher course would be a good starting point.

[flashesbuck]

On 4/16/2019 at 4:31 PM, Parrot said:

This is correct. I took the Motorcycle Ohio course last fall and I have to say that it is both easier than what I have read about the MSF (No Box) but, they do work hard at teaching you to think about being in traffic. 

I would love to take an advanced course as well but, the only one in my area was full months ahead of the start date. I hope they get more setup soon. In the meantime I am sticking to researching riding techniques and continuing to practice and not just take the same roads everyday.

I do think that just requiring that everyone take motorcycle Ohio in order to get your initial endorsement (no matter how much practice you already have) and requiring that anyone looking get back to riding take a refresher course would be a good starting point.

The advanced rider course has not been approved by Motorcycle Ohio yet, to my knowledge no one should be teaching it. There is however "rr" returning riders, and BRS2 (newly approved) classes running. 

Sir we are so over booked as it is. As it stands now, it's difficult to get everyone that wants a class now, actually in a class. If the state "required" this class, our demand would go though the roof. 

Do I feel everyone should take ot, absolutely but we simply don't have the capability currently. 

[Koala]

On 4/16/2019 at 4:31 PM, Parrot said:

I do think that just requiring that everyone take motorcycle Ohio in order to get your initial endorsement (no matter how much practice you already have) and requiring that anyone looking get back to riding take a refresher course would be a good starting point.

They would need to get their shit together coaching wise if they were going to start requiring this. In my experience with the BRS and the RR, as well as talking to/watching other coaches, some are absolutely awesome and others are almost worthless unless you've been riding for years and already have an idea of what you are doing. They would also need to learn how to coach people that learn in different ways and at different speeds, as well as taking into consideration group anxiety.

The coaches at the BRS I attempted were very nice guys and seemed to know about bikes and riding, but when it came to coaching, they just stood there for the most part. When doing the drills there was no actual coaching of anything, just showing you on a card multiple drills to do and then sending you off. It was the complete opposite at the RR course. Ken Brown (coordinator for Hudson High School site) was great, the guy with him (can't remember name, looks like Santa) was pretty good too.

I just know that if I went by what happened at my BRS, I would have given up on learning to ride thinking I did not have the ability at all. After one on one coaching, I know that to not be the case. I love my bike, I feel great on the roads, and I know I can get past the test anxiety to get my endorsement. 

[flashesbuck]

On 4/27/2019 at 9:53 AM, Koala said:

They would need to get their shit together coaching wise if they were going to start requiring this. In my experience with the BRS and the RR, as well as talking to/watching other coaches, some are absolutely awesome and others are almost worthless unless you've been riding for years and already have an idea of what you are doing. They would also need to learn how to coach people that learn in different ways and at different speeds, as well as taking into consideration group anxiety.

The coaches at the BRS I attempted were very nice guys and seemed to know about bikes and riding, but when it came to coaching, they just stood there for the most part. When doing the drills there was no actual coaching of anything, just showing you on a card multiple drills to do and then sending you off. It was the complete opposite at the RR course. Ken Brown (coordinator for Hudson High School site) was great, the guy with him (can't remember name, looks like Santa) was pretty good too.

I just know that if I went by what happened at my BRS, I would have given up on learning to ride thinking I did not have the ability at all. After one on one coaching, I know that to not be the case. I love my bike, I feel great on the roads, and I know I can get past the test anxiety to get my endorsement. 

God I hope I wasn't that coach

[hiro]

On 4/16/2019 at 2:53 PM, SpecialEd said:

I was once clipped and very nearly run over by a cager driving a large SUV turning left while I was stopped at a red light. The driver was not looking where she was going, and was instead WAVING at someone across the street. She knocked me off the bike and dragged me a few feet before stopping. I had witnesses, and let her know this when she exited the vehicle to yell at me for calling the cops, telling me she knew this accident was going to "cost" her, and that she couldn't afford money for a law suit because she had to send her kids to summer camp. I sued her and won, but nearly paid for her distracted driving with my life.

Wow... Sorry for inconveniencing the woman by almost being injured or killed by her. What was I thinking??

[SpecialEd]

10 hours ago, hiro said:

Wow... Sorry for inconveniencing the woman by almost being injured or killed by her. What was I thinking??

Her attorney called me at work the next day and offered me a settlement of $600 😤