Mini prepping. (Covid-19 thread)

[Pauly]

1 hour ago, jbot said:

I certainly am confused and scared of these sheep.  I LOVE that someone is considering you to be a leftist. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT GENDER YOU ARE OMG. hahahaha

I couldn't care less what his political leanings are. If you put "personal common sense" above clinical medical science... you're a fucking moron. 

Plus, Wtf does gender have to do with anything? He brought up a topic we weren't discussing because he has no solid ground from which to spew his idiocy. Any first-year psychology student can see through his veil of uneducated hogwash. 

I didn't dare say his mask of hogwash. That would have been too easy. 

[CJ74U2NV]

1 hour ago, jbot said:

No but really, why do you think the masks don't work?  It's scientifically established that microdroplets are the primary transmitter of the virus, and it's established that even simple cotton masks are effective at containing and reducing microdroplets.  Seems like a straightforward concept.  We don't even need to get all complicated leftist science here hahaha

I"m going to address just the mask first, not the lack of common sense about why people should wear them.

When was the last time someone sneezed and blew snot all over your face?  When was the last time someone coughed in your face and sprayed you with spit?  I've never had it happen.  The virus is so small that most masks don't work to contain it.  They might hold back some spit, but the virus will still go though the mask.  This is why every "scientific expert" says you have to stay six feet away and wear a mask.  Essentially, the virus won't travel more than six feet under normal breathing conditions.  Which is odd because if we all stayed more than six feet apart, we shouldn't need to wear masks.  And if we wear masks, and/or stayed six feet apart, all businesses should be open.

The exception would be an N95 mask with a nose pinch.  But the wearer would need to have no makeup, no facial hair and keep a tight seal around the mask.  Otherwise, every time the wearer breathes in, they suck in the virus.  However, even with an N95 mask (or any mask), the virus can be transmitted though your eyes.  So you'd need and N95, plus a full face shield.  

Cloth masks are the worst yet that's what most people wear.  You are actually increasing your risk of not only covid, but every other communicable disease by wearing one.  Don't want to believe me?  Here's SCIENTIFIC evidence from MIT....https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/07/do-cloth-masks-work
 

Now for the common sense part (or lack thereof).  The current mortality rate for covid is .026%.  That's pretty freaking low.  Like really low.  40% of people that get it are asymptomatic which means they don't have any symptoms. Those are CDC statistics.  Turns out I am one of them.  I regularly donate blood and at my last donation I was told I have the antibodies.  I caught the kung flu and it had zero affect on me.  I'm an older guy and according to the guberment I should be on a ventilator.  If you're in a high risk group, you should be taking precautions.  But IIRC, 90% or 95% of the population in this country is not a high risk group.  There are so many other things that have much higher mortality rates that worrying about covid just doesn't make sense.  Obesity kill way more than covid, but how many fat people are wearing masks yet not losing weight?  

If people are scared and want to wear a mask, I have no problem with that.  If someone with covid is near you, you have your mask on and will not catch it.  But if you need to be more than six feet from them, why do you even need the mask?  None of it makes common sense.  The curve has flattened but now we have "red counties" to keep the scare alive until the election is over.  DeWine is right with you in the trump-derangement syndrome.  That's why Ohio is where it is.  South Dakota is doing great with no restrictions or closures of any kind.

Further, the economic impact this is having will be way more detrimental to our society that the virus ever could be.  

Edited September 12, 2020 by CJ74U2NV

[CJ74U2NV]

3 minutes ago, Pauly said:

I couldn't care less what his political leanings are. If you put "personal common sense" above clinical medical science... you're a fucking moron. 

Plus, Wtf does gender have to do with anything? He brought up a topic we weren't discussing because he has no solid ground from which to spew his idiocy. Any first-year psychology student can see through his veil of uneducated hogwash. 

I didn't dare say his mask of hogwash. That would have been too easy. 

You da man 👍

[Mr.Gym10]

1 hour ago, CJ74U2NV said:

I"m going to address just the mask first, not the lack of common sense about why people should wear them.

When was the last time someone sneezed and blew snot all over your face?  When was the last time someone coughed in your face and sprayed you with spit?  I've never had it happen.  The virus is so small that most masks don't work to contain it.  They might hold back some spit, but the virus will still go though the mask.  This is why every "scientific expert" says you have to stay six feet away and wear a mask.  Essentially, the virus won't travel more than six feet under normal breathing conditions.  Which is odd because if we all stayed more than six feet apart, we shouldn't need to wear masks.  And if we wear masks, and/or stayed six feet apart, all businesses should be open.

The exception would be an N95 mask with a nose pinch.  But the wearer would need to have no makeup, no facial hair and keep a tight seal around the mask.  Otherwise, every time the wearer breathes in, they suck in the virus.  However, even with an N95 mask (or any mask), the virus can be transmitted though your eyes.  So you'd need and N95, plus a full face shield.  

Cloth masks are the worst yet that's what most people wear.  You are actually increasing your risk of not only covid, but every other communicable disease by wearing one.  Don't want to believe me?  Here's SCIENTIFIC evidence from MIT....https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/07/do-cloth-masks-work
 

Now for the common sense part (or lack thereof).  The current mortality rate for covid is .026%.  That's pretty freaking low.  Like really low.  40% of people that get it are asymptomatic which means they don't have any symptoms. Those are CDC statistics.  Turns out I am one of them.  I regularly donate blood and at my last donation I was told I have the antibodies.  I caught the kung flu and it had zero affect on me.  I'm an older guy and according to the guberment I should be on a ventilator.  If you're in a high risk group, you should be taking precautions.  But IIRC, 90% or 95% of the population in this country is not a high risk group.  There are so many other things that have much higher mortality rates that worrying about covid just doesn't make sense.  Obesity kill way more than covid, but how many fat people are wearing masks yet not losing weight?  

If people are scared and want to wear a mask, I have no problem with that.  If someone with covid is near you, you have your mask on and will not catch it.  But if you need to be more than six feet from them, why do you even need the mask?  None of it makes common sense.  The curve has flattened but now we have "red counties" to keep the scare alive until the election is over.  DeWine is right with you in the trump-derangement syndrome.  That's why Ohio is where it is.  South Dakota is doing great with no restrictions or closures of any kind.

Further, the economic impact this is having will be way more detrimental to our society that the virus ever could be.  

Did you even read the article you cited? It is literally advocating for people to wear a cloth mask.
 

“the virus is spread through respiratory droplets, and since people are most contagious in the 48 hours before symptom onset, our cloth face coverings are meant to protect other people, not ourselves. And there is steadily accumulating evidence that cloth masks perform that function well, by containing respiratory droplets before they can be expelled into the air.”

 

”A recent study, for example, used publicly available data to calculate the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia between the end of March and late May of 2020. Researchers found that mask mandates led to a marked slowdown in the daily growth rate, estimating that mask mandates may have prevented up to 450,000 cases of COVID-19.”

 

 

”.. in combination with social distancing, our cloth masks are very effective at preventing the spread of the virus. Remember, your mask protects other people; their masks protect you”

Edited September 12, 2020 by Mr.Gym10

[jbot]

English may not be his native/primary language based on what appears to be a lack of basic comprehension of the "discussion" taking place here. 

[Tpoppa]

I miss these threads

[Pauly]

I most appreciate the use of the word "fear" over "common-courtesy". I am not afraid...but I do travel a ton and I try to be respectful of everyone I meet. It isn't fear that drives the mask. It's self-respect and basic human decency.

I mean... damn. Talk about missing the point by a landslide. 

[Pauly]

@jeepenvyguy.. You realize wearing a mask keeps you from expelling droplets onto public usage items.. like, doors and chairs and shit, right? Someone doesn't have to vomit covid down your throat to catch it. It is highly contagious and not everyone is as lucky as you. Congrats on blood doaning. That is noble, but your hangups about the mask is confounding. I think you mean well, but you are advocating directly against the advice of medical professionals. Are you on their level? Because, if you aren't inside their boundaries of education and intellect required to obtain and execute usage of said education, you're quite full of yourself. 

[Pauly]

Lastly, how much of this bullshit do I have to participate in before one of you old timers challenge me in all aspects of life? That is my MO at the moment. Quarantine makes me twitchy.

 

[CJ74U2NV]

The first paragraph The study concluded that moisture retention, reuse, and poor filtration could increase wearers’ risk of infection.

N95 masks do work, but there you go again with the "in combination with the 6 feet rule".  
EDIT:  No one wears N95 and no one covers their eyes or other entry points for the virus.

Answer these questions please and try to do so without personal attacks.  You can be a dickhead in person is you think it's smart:

1.  Why do we need 6 feet apart rule if masks work?
2.  If masks work, why do we need to continue to shut down everything?
3.  Why would you wear a mask or shut down an economy over a virus with a .026% mortality rate?
4.  Why would you wear a mask or shut down an economy over a virus with a 40% asymptomatic rate?
5.  Why don't we take such drastic measures about things that really are much more deadly?
 

Edited September 12, 2020 by CJ74U2NV

[CJ74U2NV]

40 minutes ago, Pauly said:

Lastly, how much of this bullshit do I have to participate in before one of you old timers challenge me in all aspects of life? That is my MO at the moment. Quarantine makes me twitchy.

 

If you're that tired of it go away.  

[Disclaimer]

@Pauly we're all too busy eating chicken wings for $1.87 to worry about challenging you.  Btw, your mask.... it LBTS, GLWS.

[snot]

8 hours ago, CJ74U2NV said:

When was the last time someone sneezed and blew snot all over your face?  

I have never been "blown" on a face. I have .....NVM. That would be a different thread.

[Pauly]

4 hours ago, CJ74U2NV said:

The first paragraph The study concluded that moisture retention, reuse, and poor filtration could increase wearers’ risk of infection.

N95 masks do work, but there you go again with the "in combination with the 6 feet rule".  
EDIT:  No one wears N95 and no one covers their eyes or other entry points for the virus.

Answer these questions please and try to do so without personal attacks.  You can be a dickhead in person is you think it's smart:

1.  Why do we need 6 feet apart rule if masks work?
2.  If masks work, why do we need to continue to shut down everything?
3.  Why would you wear a mask or shut down an economy over a virus with a .026% mortality rate?
4.  Why would you wear a mask or shut down an economy over a virus with a 40% asymptomatic rate?
5.  Why don't we take such drastic measures about things that really are much more deadly?
 

Aah.. now it makes sense. We did the shutdown to keep our hospital system from complete collapse under the weight of that insignificant number you say doesn't matter. This is a basic "lack of resource" situation. 

Masks work and help curb the rush. Americans just won't wear them. I have seen enough cities this year to see a vast difference in political position. Americans are fucking weird. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Pauly

[jbot]

5 hours ago, CJ74U2NV said:

The first paragraph The study concluded that moisture retention, reuse, and poor filtration could increase wearers’ risk of infection.

N95 masks do work, but there you go again with the "in combination with the 6 feet rule".  
EDIT:  No one wears N95 and no one covers their eyes or other entry points for the virus.

Answer these questions please and try to do so without personal attacks.  You can be a dickhead in person is you think it's smart:

1.  Why do we need 6 feet apart rule if masks work?
2.  If masks work, why do we need to continue to shut down everything?
3.  Why would you wear a mask or shut down an economy over a virus with a .026% mortality rate?
4.  Why would you wear a mask or shut down an economy over a virus with a 40% asymptomatic rate?
5.  Why don't we take such drastic measures about things that really are much more deadly?
 

Don't act like you've been the perfect cordial gentleman here in this thread.  people who act like snarky assholes don't get to complain when others respond in kind.  i've tried to answer your 5 extremely google-able questions below with minimal snark.  but really, this stuff is readily available to read on the internet from reputable medical and health resources that have no reason to lie to you.

1. Because like everything else, and as even you have mentioned, there is no mask that is 100% sealed.  What it DOES do is contain respiratory droplets, and when everyone is wearing it, it does it really well.  Seriously, watch those videos about how the masks work, there are many posted on youtube, including the one i posted.

2. umm what's shut down still?  NFL?  seriously?

3.  .026%? where did you get that number from?  also, i'll bet something shiny that if you knew you had contracted COVID, and you had someone you loved who was elderly, immuno compromised, or had worries about risks, you wouldn't go near them because if you've read enough about this to see the .026% somewhere (still not sure where that came from?)  Why do I say that?  Because you're probably mistaking .26% which was a number listed as a possible estimated mortality rate of COVID by the CDC (I mean, you were only off by like 1000%, but whatever) which is roughly DOUBLE the mortality rate of seasonal flu which already kills hundreds of thousands of the type of people i mentioned earlier.  I know I wouldn't go near someone who's at risk of seriously health complications from even something like the flu, much less something like COVID which can basically decimate the population of a nursing home if left unchecked like it did early on.  so why would you wear a mask?  the same reason I have a CHL, WHY THE FUCK NOT?  shutting down the economy?  well, we shut down parts of the economy that were deemed non-critical which sucked.  i didn't agree with the way it was done either, but considering the rush to act, i understood.  it definitely could have been done better.

4. I want to make sure you understand what asymptomatic means.  it means you could potentially not feel a single symptom, and yet, be spewing it out into the air as you rant about masks or genders to your poor grandparents or other friends/family that have diabetes or high blood pressure or have COPD or asthma or god knows what else that are high risk for serious complications if THEY contract COVID from you who were lucky and were asymptomatic.  at least with the flu or a cold, you get sick and you know you're sick so you know to stay away from other people so they don't get sick.  With COVID, you could be infected, but not know it and THAT is why it's so dangerous.  This shit is all out there in google land.

5. Like what?  The flu, which even by the most conservative estimates is HALF the mortality rate?  Are you aware that every year, millions of vaccines are shot in to the arms of people so they don't get sick and possibly die?  It kinda sounds like we take it seriously.  are you aware that small children get vaccinated against all sorts of illnesses and by doing this, we have all but eradicated very serious illnesses that have killed millions of people in the past?

ever had pneumonia as a complication of the flu?  me neither, but i've read and heard enough about it to know i don't want to get it and don't want my little kids to get sick and develop pneumonia.  or may elderly parents (67+ yrs old) or people who I work with that have COPD or diabetes or whatever else that have co-morbidities with respiratory illnesses like the flu and obviously, COVID.  if we had a vaccine for COVID we would all be shooting up like it's meth in ashtabula or southern ohio.

[CJ74U2NV]

11 hours ago, jbot said:

Blah...blah...blah

You're wrong, there are masks that are 100% sealed.  Certainly not the bandannas that most people wear which are more detrimental than helpful.  FACT

All businesses in Ohio have restrictions.  Many states still have "non-essential" businesses closed.  

My numbers are from the CDC.  You know...that scientific government organization.

40% asymptomatic (and .026% mortality rate) means it's not something worth trying to make activities that are otherwise legal, illegal.  

From the CDC again.....

• 34 percent of premature deaths from heart diseases, prolonging about 92,000 lives
  Heart disease risks include tobacco use, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, type 2 diabetes, poor diet, overweight, and lack of physical activity.
• 21 percent of premature cancer deaths, prolonging about 84,500 lives
  Cancer risks include tobacco use, poor diet, lack of physical activity, overweight, sun exposure, certain hormones, alcohol, some viruses and bacteria, ionizing radiation, and certain chemicals and other substances.
• 39 percent of premature deaths from chronic lower respiratory diseases, prolonging about 29,000 lives
  Chronic respiratory disease risks include tobacco smoke, second-hand smoke exposure, other indoor air pollutants, outdoor air pollutants, allergens, and exposure to occupational agents.
• 33 percent of premature stroke deaths, prolonging about 17,000 lives
  Stroke risks include high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart disease, diabetes, overweight, previous stroke, tobacco use, alcohol use, and lack of physical activity.
• 39 percent of premature deaths from unintentional injuries, prolonging about 37,000 lives
  Unintentional injury risks include lack of seatbelt use, lack of motorcycle helmet use, unsafe consumer products, drug and alcohol use (including prescription drug misuse), exposure to occupational hazards, and unsafe home and community environments.

Edited September 13, 2020 by CJ74U2NV

[jbot]

1 minute ago, CJ74U2NV said:

HurrrrDurrrrrrr

Way to address the core of my responses.

Lol show me this magical 100% seal mask that people can feasibly buy and use in public. 

Don't move the goalposts, of course there will be restrictions, I'm pretty sure I pointed that out?  And tell me what businesses are still closed?  Also did you miss the part where I noted that I disagreed with the way the shut down was handled?  Get it together. 

Seriously, look up the .026 number.  It's not that hard to get it right.  And you're critically misunderstanding why people talk about the fact that it's so widely asymptomatic and why it makes it so dangerous.  Learn. To. Read.

[Disclaimer]

Can I get a mod in here?

There's been a request from someone in...err... higher authority to shut this thread down because it could cause panic.  We need to downplay this liberal hoax.  And for godsakes, don't talk to anyone named Woodward.

[Pauly]

19 hours ago, CJ74U2NV said:

If you're that tired of it go away.  

This is my home court, broseph. If anyone fucks off, it will be you. I hold the launch codes. 

[Pauly]

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. 

[snot]

So as an EHS specialist in will add the following:

Mask - depends on the income but yes there are mask that do seal 100% to your face when don correctly. However, a medical evaluation is required in the business sector prior to use per OSHA (there are cases where people fail the evaluation and are NOT permitted to wear them for health reasons). Mask do have a life span, cloth face coverings are not "mask" defined by OSHA.

The fibers you can breath in from disposable paper mask (wearing past life span or incorrectly) could be harmful (need more research). 

In certain industries and environments mask can cause a hazard (heat, welding, electric, food, machining) if the wrong kind is used.

In general public areas where no other physical hazards are present: face coverings can help prevent spit from landing in your mouth from others. Try spotting into someone's mouth when you are wearing a mask.

This is the and of my .02

 

 

[ricer1]

1 hour ago, Pauly said:

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. 

Dr. Pauly....... could this effect also be related to ones motorcycle riding abilities? 

[jbot]

45 minutes ago, snot said:

So as an EHS specialist in will add the following:

Mask - depends on the income but yes there are mask that do seal 100% to your face when don correctly. However, a medical evaluation is required in the business sector prior to use per OSHA (there are cases where people fail the evaluation and are NOT permitted to wear them for health reasons). Mask do have a life span, cloth face coverings are not "mask" defined by OSHA.

The fibers you can breath in from disposable paper mask (wearing past life span or incorrectly) could be harmful (need more research). 

In certain industries and environments mask can cause a hazard (heat, welding, electric, food, machining) if the wrong kind is used.

In general public areas where no other physical hazards are present: face coverings can help prevent spit from landing in your mouth from others. Try spotting into someone's mouth when you are wearing a mask.

This is the and of my .02

 

 

just so we're not losing context here, the "100% sealing mask" was brought up because i was pointing out that widely available masks do not seal 100% which is why we have distancing guidelines, which should not be difficult to grasp but apparently was for "it's a jeep thing" guy.  so if you're about to show me some very expensive, specialized, not available to the general public mask, then you are missing the point of the discussion.  that all said, please show me these masks that i could have been using this whole time that is 100% sealing.

[CJ74U2NV]

6 hours ago, jbot said:

Way to address the core of my responses.

Lol show me this magical 100% seal mask that people can feasibly buy and use in public. 

Don't move the goalposts, of course there will be restrictions, I'm pretty sure I pointed that out?  And tell me what businesses are still closed?  Also did you miss the part where I noted that I disagreed with the way the shut down was handled?  Get it together. 

Seriously, look up the .026 number.  It's not that hard to get it right.  And you're critically misunderstanding why people talk about the fact that it's so widely asymptomatic and why it makes it so dangerous.  Learn. To. Read.

IIRC, the ENVO N95 can present a 100% seal.  Those and all the way up to a hazmat suit.  
EDIT ON MASKS:  Removing and disposing of a mask is more dangerous from a virology stand point than just wearing it around.  It's the same for any contamination protections.  And if someone spits in your face (or blows droplets in your face) the virus will enter via your eyes which renders the mask useless.  But again, if the mask were effective, we wouldn't need social distancing or restrictions/closings for businesses.  

I'm not the one moving goal posts.  Your closure list can be found here:  https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/responsible-restart-ohio/continued-business-closures/continued-business-closures

• Older adult day care services and senior centers. (Will be permitted to open Sept. 21.)
• Adult day support or vocational habilitation services in congregate settings. (A congregate setting is defined as a single location where more than 10 people are present in confined space.)
• Rooming and boarding houses, and workers’ camps.
• Certain entertainment/recreation sites.
• Includes:
  • Auditoriums, stadiums, arenas.
  • Performance theatres and indoor concert and music halls.
  • Parades, fairs, festivals, and carnivals. (Junior fair activities at county fairs are permitted with 10 p.m. curfew.)
  • Certain spectator sports, sports tournaments, and organized recreational sports leagues. (Skills training, practice, and scrimmages for all sports is permitted. Non-contact and limited-contact sports are permitted. Batting cages, bowling alleys, tennis facilities, and golf courses are permitted to open.)
  • Some public and private pools. (Public pools and club pools regulated by local health departments are permitted to open. Use of swimming pools for single households also is permitted.)

I've looked up the numbers and have provided several sources.  All I've gotten in return is chest beating egos and irrational backtracking.  Right "broseph"?

Edited September 13, 2020 by CJ74U2NV

[snot]

5 hours ago, jbot said:

just so we're not losing context here, the "100% sealing mask" was brought up because i was pointing out that widely available masks do not seal 100% which is why we have distancing guidelines, which should not be difficult to grasp but apparently was for "it's a jeep thing" guy.  so if you're about to show me some very expensive, specialized, not available to the general public mask, then you are missing the point of the discussion.  that all said, please show me these masks that i could have been using this whole time that is 100% sealing.

https://www.mcmaster.com/respirators/half-face-respirators/

 

Again, they MUST be donned correctly and OSHA REQUIRES a medical exam PRIOR to use in the business sector. You MUST complete training and a fit test annually as well. They are NOT meant for "airbourne diseases". What you are filtering matters.

So, to his point they do exist. But so does bunker gear and level A hazmat suits.

To your point, they are not meant for the general public just because you can buy them. It is extremely dangerous to use them if not worn correctly, trained or have a medical evaluation allowing the use.

I prefer cotton mask in public because I can wash them and it is enough for what I am doing in public. Other wise I use the required type at work for the hazards I am working with per OSHA.

 

When making sammiches I use a quality food grade.

When I am on a face...  Wait wrong thread.

Edited September 13, 2020 by snot