It's official - GM has lost

[Joe]

Toyota employs more American citizens than any other manufacturer, they are the most profitable of all car companies, and are about 9th most profitable company in the world. Clearly GM is not >*. Anyhow, Nitroubird, Toyota is currently in the developmental stages with Isuzu diesel division (Duramax) and are designing trucks to take on/out the big three heavy class trucks.

 

Plus, I just bought a new Toyota and they pay my mortgage indirectly, so pppbbbbttt to GM

[sol740]

Toyota is a fine automaker and deserve their reputation for building some of the most reliable, and well-put together autos in the industry. Good for them. Hopefully the US manufacturers will step up their game.

 

It's obvious that you havent given a domestic a legitimate chance for quite some time.

 

Yes. Because I have been burned in the past and now I make my DD decisions with my best interest in mind, rather than take a chance on another possible piece of junk. The problem with american auto-makers is every time a step is made in the right direction, someone brings out a Pontiac Aztec or something similarly awful. Though consumer reports went over reliability within the first 4 years (i think it was 4) and american autos were behind japan, but well ahead of european autos, yet look how popular those are.

[Oo0martelle0oO]

I'm proud to say that I helped Toyota in that achievement. Maybe if GM would build a better quality automobile I might/would consider buying one. I have given GM a chance twice and Chrysler twice. Thats when I switched to an import.

[XChris1632X]

Yes I drive a dodge but I am a die hard chevy fan. I couldnt afford a duramax with low miles on it when I bought my truck otherwise I would of got one. Chevy trucks since 95 have had awsome interiors, the first years were kinda cheaper and rubbermaid but they were with their times and they have progressed perfectly with every exterior change. I love the 99-06 interiors and favor the newer ones even more, but in 07 their trucks made a drastic change. At first I said eehh but the body has grown on me and the interior is starting too. The interior on the new trucks shares nothing alike from prior interiors, and are 10 times more refined. In my opinion once these trucks are out for awhile they are going to make a difference, and I think they will affect future interior changes.

[AJ]

Yes I drive a dodge but I am a die hard chevy fan. I couldnt afford a duramax with low miles on it when I bought my truck otherwise I would of got one. Chevy trucks since 95 have had awsome interiors, the first years were kinda cheaper and rubbermaid but they were with their times and they have progressed perfectly with every exterior change. I love the 99-06 interiors and favor the newer ones even more, but in 07 their trucks made a drastic change. At first I said eehh but the body has grown on me and the interior is starting too. The interior on the new trucks shares nothing alike from prior interiors, and are 10 times more refined. In my opinion once these trucks are out for awhile they are going to make a difference, and I think they will affect future interior changes.

 

the 07 trucks depends on the trim package and the interior is pretty sweet like the out side but the cheep trucks look like shit and the interior sucks. let me tell ya, 07 duramax will smoke the tires from a roll.

 

Gearhead...our ford store has so much stuff comming in the door they can't handle it and have been sending it to up. i have a 2004 exploder on my rack that the transmission is out of it and the rear end makes noise...3rd one in a year thats been put in it. job security

[Mallard]

Toyota employs more American citizens than any other manufacturer

Not true. Have any numbers to back that up?

[Guest Removed]

 

Gearhead...our ford store has so much stuff comming in the door they can't handle it and have been sending it to up. i have a 2004 exploder on my rack that the transmission is out of it and the rear end makes noise...3rd one in a year thats been put in it. job security

 

well id hope so at a ford store. :asshole: (ive been hearing the gm service places are slow) and for sure sales are down.isnt gm still in bed with toyota(the saturn line)

it doesnt matter anyway, with the way its going, $5.00 a gallon and all this cheap crap the big 3 are tossing out. imports might have a fighting chance.

but they sure cant build a cup car. like they can a truck.

 

 

 

BTW, did you hear about the class action lawsuit on GM over dex-cool?

job security

GM = Gotta Mechanic?

GMC= Got a Mechanic Coming?

 

 

but yet, you just brought home one of them there four letter words.

[Mallard]

And I have a Buick in my garage right now with 107,000 on it that I just put a water pump on so it would quit spewing coolant all over the optispark, it has a window out of the track, and has no third gear. What's your point?

 

Sounds like your problem was buying a Buick from the period where GM built some of their worst cars in the last 20 years and you're comparing them to what they build today. Your 3800 Series I engine has nothing in common with what's going on today. All the series I's I know of went through a waterpump or two, and Optispark has been documented as an issue, just ask anyone with an F-body. The problem is, you bought a car with inherent problems that had you done research, you should have expected. The fact of the matter is, the reliability of what they have on the market today is as good or better than anything out there and has no relation to your early/mid 90's Buick. (You never said what year it is, so I'm guessing by your description). They offer a 100,000 mile warrenty on all their new products.

 

And saying that a specific part on the car isn't even made by GM doesn't change the fact that it is on the car, and helps to create the bad image. If it's a problem, then get a different supplier that won't give you garbage.

My point is that the people that supply those parts to GM supply those same parts to every other company, including Toyota. So saying 'GM should get off their asses and design better starters, etc.' has no point being in this conversation because there are a lot of components GM doesn't design in the first place.

 

And for anyone that thinks I'm only a GM fan, brand loyal, etc. obviously doesn't know me. I've had an Olsmobile, a Nissan, a Mazda, and now my Saturn. I've also helped pick out cars for my parents. A Nissan Altima (which turned out to be a lemon), an Acura TSX, and my dad is on his second Toyota Avalon. The TSX and the new Avalon have been great, the first Avalon had some issues. I see a growing trend of people that hate on American companies for, what are a lot of times, unfounded reasons. I think it's rediculous that we get into arguments about GM sucking when most people haven't driven a GM car in years!

[Mallard]

isnt gm still in bed with toyota(the saturn line)

Toyota has nothing to do with the Saturn line, or anything GM for that matter besides the Pontiac Vibe. The Vibe/Matrix are a joint venture between the two companies. They are built in the same plant for both companies. Toyota even sells the Vibe body in Japan.

 

Saturn had used a Honda V6 in the VUE. Honda needed diesel engines so they traded their V6 for GM diesels.

[Guest Removed]

gm sold 2.2 mil in cars

toyo sold 2.3 mil in cars

 

 

still 3 quarters too go guys.

 

and ill tell you, every car maker, makes some amount of junk.

[Guest Removed]

Toyota has nothing to do with the Saturn line, or anything GM for that matter besides the Pontiac Vibe. The Vibe/Matrix are a joint venture between the two companies. They are built in the same plant for both companies. Toyota even sells the Vibe body in Japan.

 

Saturn had used a Honda V6 in the VUE. Honda needed diesel engines so they traded their V6 for GM diesels.

 

 

umm i remember working on sl1s and 2s the earlyer models, had toyota trannys in them. and other toyota parts.just like isuzu has used gm motors back in the day. and the vibe ...the old chevy novas? where toyota corollas.

 

remember, i drive gms in too a service bay everyday.

 

The reason GM has lost market share is because this build shit and could careless about the customer.

 

 

 

thank you...

[LPFSTheFett]

This Viper is the first non GM car I've purchased in a move away from GM vehicles. The reason GM has lost market share is because this build shit and could careless about the customer.

 

Examples: 4th Gen Camaro and Firebirds. You know that hump on the passenger side front seat. Yeah that was for a Cat on pre 95's. So instead of fixing it to make the car more comfortable, they left it.

My Escalade: Can't put gas in the damn thing when it gets cold outside. Pump will keep clicking off But oh no it's not the cars fault, it's the gas stations fault (according to a GM Bulletin) It says Gas stations need to change their pumps. WTF?!?

My 05 Corvette: Did a very minor burn (4 seconds max) out and the rear end broke like an egg and dumped all the rear end fluid. Car had a whopping 1000 miles on it. Dealership gives me shit about covering it.

06 Z06s: Some were having roof problems and they were flying off. The inital response by GM before they thought there was a problem. "Don't roll your windows down above 70mph (not sure of exact mph)"

CTS-V's: Were all breaking rear ends and having major problems. They couldn't even fix the problem for 2 years and finally started replacing rear ends with new model rearends.

Grand Am: One of the best selling pontiac's. They do a way with the line and replace it with the G6 that doesn't sell at all. Business partner's wifes G6 had that stupid roof on it that leaked like crazy and couldn't get it fixed the entire time she owned it because the parts to fix it were on back order!

SSR: Why would you build a parade car? then start it with 350hp like the GTO's to up it 50hp 1 year later.

 

List goes on and on. I mean they are just clueless. I've only owned one foriegn car and it was an 05 Honda Accord and was the best built car I've ever owned and by a LONG shot. Nothing compared. Build crap and people will stop buying it. You have to have HUGE incentives just to move their cars. Then in turn drastically loweres the value of the vehicles people paid more for, and so resale values of the cars go into the toilet. Our 05 Envoy Stickered for 43k, we paid like 39(under invoice), 6 months later it was worth 19k . . . Also ever notice how you get zero credit for your options. my 06 Convertible Vett loaded cost 66k and trade in 1 year later was a respetable 46k, but if you got the no option convertible for 54k it had the same trade in. Go Figure.

 

Not swearing off GM because I like their big suv's. Just think if they want to compete they really need to sit back and look at what they are doing.

[Mallard]

umm i remember working on sl1s and 2s the earlyer models, had toyota trannys in them. and other toyota parts.just like isuzu has used gm motors back in the day. and the vibe ...the old chevy novas? where toyota corollas.

 

remember, i drive gms in too a service bay everyday.

Yes, the Geo/Chevy Prizm was a Corolla. It was built under the same venture, in the same plant, as the Vibe/Matrix. I was only counting cars currently in production or on sale.

[LPFSTheFett]

Dang, I almost forgot about the constant radle and gurgle I hear in my Escalade. But that's normal according to the GM Rep. lol..

[Guest Lowered_93_SBC_S10]

my moms car is a 92 buick lesabre with 230000 miles on it the only thing she had to do was change water pump at 130k and schedualed services. then changed all wheel barings at about 150k great car and i paid 1200$ for that car about 3 years ago for her from a friends grandpa

[Guest Removed]

I was only coulting cars surrently in production or on sale.

 

 

 

 

 

And use there ideas in alot of there newer shit.

[Mallard]

Toyota employs more American citizens than any other manufacturer

Joe, I found the numbers for you. Now you have to realize that the last year for complete financial records to be posted for GM is 2004 and Toyota shows up to 2005. Also, because of NAFTA no one lists a U.S.A employment number, there's only a North America number.

 

That said, GM had 182,000 North American workers on payroll in 2004.

LINK They have laid off about 30,000 workers since then, bringing the rough total to about 152,000 people.

 

Toyota had 31,519 North American employees on payroll in 2004, and 38,340 on the payroll in 2005.

LINK

Now they did inherit some employees from GM when they bought Subaru this past year so there may be an extra thousand or so added to the total, plus any additional capacity they've added. But I can assue you they did not add over 100,000 emplyees in North America since 2005.

[Guest Removed]

Dang, I almost forgot about the constant radle and gurgle I hear in my Escalade. But that's normal according to the GM Rep. lol..

 

 

i love how you paid 50 k for that and get told too deal with the piston slap.

 

long lists of tsbs.

[Berto]

 

- Toyota in the industrial truck market. PPPAAAAHHHHLEASE. A single 1/2 ton truck isn't jack, and I'm sure they know it. No one that does any serious towing or hauling would even look at an import truck.

 

Thats the attitude/mindset that got the big 3 in trouble.

[Nate1647545505]

CTS-V's: Were all breaking rear ends and having major problems. They couldn't even fix the problem for 2 years and finally started replacing rear ends with new model rearends.

 

People were breaking the rear ends, not the cars. There is some give/take when engineering a two ton car's IRS. Cadillac is bias to ride - so the ability to do large clutch dumps was put in the back seat.

 

The diff is the same unit that is stuffed in the CTSVR....

[copperhead]

Sounds like your problem was buying a Buick from the period where GM built some of their worst cars in the last 20 years and you're comparing them to what they build today. Your 3800 Series I engine has nothing in common with what's going on today. All the series I's I know of went through a waterpump or two, and Optispark has been documented as an issue, just ask anyone with an F-body.

 

but the LTWON can nevar lose!

[Joe]

Not true. Have any numbers to back that up?

 

I think that the numbers I heard were higher than your links, as they were counting indirect employees also....

 

all I know is that I prefer Toyota and my FJ will tow the hell out of a Sky.

[Skinner]

Joe, I found the numbers for you. Now you have to realize that the last year for complete financial records to be posted for GM is 2004 and Toyota shows up to 2005. Also, because of NAFTA no one lists a U.S.A employment number, there's only a North America number.

 

That said, GM had 182,000 North American workers on payroll in 2004.

LINK They have laid off about 30,000 workers since then, bringing the rough total to about 152,000 people.

 

Toyota had 31,519 North American employees on payroll in 2004, and 38,340 on the payroll in 2005.

LINK

Now they did inherit some employees from GM when they bought Subaru this past year so there may be an extra thousand or so added to the total, plus any additional capacity they've added. But I can assue you they did not add over 100,000 emplyees in North America since 2005.

 

GM bought Subaru? I know a while back they had had some of the market share (like 30% or something like that) but I thought they should it for whatever reason.

 

But if they bought it thats great A plan here I come

[SpaceGhost]

Gm bought 8% of subaru a few years back and as of last month GM sold that market share to Toyota. Now toyota owns 8% of Subaru.

[Vander]

This story made the front cover of the Dispatch today! Go Toyota!!!