Turbotrio Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 It seems as though your heads are on it and u would want the best results possible. There is a lot of room in there and several ways to fix the problem. Putting it there to test is one thing but to let your customer leave with it and drive hard is another. In a perfect world it would be that easy. I could do complimentary paint jobs and cam upgrades and free alky/meth kits or E85 conversions or even buy stickier tires for cars that make good power but can't hook if they have any IPS parts or stickers on them or whatever. It would literally never end... I can count on one hand the number of cars that the customer has given us free reign to simply "Build it". In those rare instances, anybody can feel free to critique or analyze or pick-apart every last nut or bolt if you would like. Chris Anderson's Z06 (The black one from Texas) is one such an example. There isn't a single facet of the car that isn't exactly how we would have built our own (Except maybe that he wanted to go SC instead of TT). Almost every other car/truck that has come through could have always been better in many different ways. Body / Paint / Tires / Engine mods / Turbo choice / Injector sizing / Tune / Interior / Etc etc etc etc etc .... Back in the real-world where budgets exist and I don't get funded by Microsoft, it simply isn't possible to make every car "Perfect" or as "Good as it could be" while it is in here getting work done to it. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 As far as performance you know as well as I do the high intake temps under boost are more acceptable then with an N/A car due to the oxygen content. And these temps are measured after the air is compressed. We all know we want them lower and do what we can to get them there. Very true, Maf's measure IAT, and most some still have a sensor in the intake stream to measure it as well after the air is compressed. hence why on a bosted car you have to raise FP with boost levels due to the intake charge being under pressure. N/a cars, never a good idea to run High IA temps. cant run as much timing, and we all know why they sell CIA's and ice box's and people go as far as running ice water thru the TB, to get the air temps down, to make more power. but if you was logging -4 knock retard, that would mean even 10* of timing was too much. and yes i have seen on big race motors, spark knock, hammer a bearing right out of the rod (ie the piston and rod was strong enough to take the abuse, and the bearing suffered all the damage) but that was on a 600ci motor, that someone happened to forget that one N2o jet was drilled out larger then the number on the side. like i have stated before, it would be interesting to see the internals of this engine failure. and all the examples giving prior, where boosted cars IAT's.... tuning a boosted car vs a N/a car is just not the same. but i think most novice car guy's under stand that. and this is a subject they cover in EFI101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Uhhh Ohhh I think I am going to keep watching this thread:Popcorn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricZ06 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) OMG you people are amazing........ LOL Very true, Maf's measure IAT No hence why on a bosted car you have to raise FP with boost levels due to the intake charge being under pressure. Wrong, you do not have to do this, it just helps in the tuning process, IE. Forced Induction kits on stock fuel rails... N/a cars, never a good idea to run High IA temps. cant run as much timing It's not a good idea to run high intake temps on any car, forced induction or NA...... tuning a boosted car vs a N/a car is just not the same. Yeah it pretty much is..... i think most novice car guy's under stand that. and this is a subject they cover in EFI101. Been there done that.... Edited May 27, 2009 by EricZ06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 OMG you people are amazing........ LOL huh, what do you mean you people? http://finephotoplay.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tropic-thunder.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1647545496 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 In a perfect world it would be that easy. I could do complimentary paint jobs and cam upgrades and free alky/meth kits or E85 conversions or even buy stickier tires for cars that make good power but can't hook if they have any IPS parts or stickers on them or whatever. It would literally never end... I can count on one hand the number of cars that the customer has given us free reign to simply "Build it". In those rare instances, anybody can feel free to critique or analyze or pick-apart every last nut or bolt if you would like. Chris Anderson's Z06 (The black one from Texas) is one such an example. There isn't a single facet of the car that isn't exactly how we would have built our own (Except maybe that he wanted to go SC instead of TT). Almost every other car/truck that has come through could have always been better in many different ways. Body / Paint / Tires / Engine mods / Turbo choice / Injector sizing / Tune / Interior / Etc etc etc etc etc .... Back in the real-world where budgets exist and I don't get funded by Microsoft, it simply isn't possible to make every car "Perfect" or as "Good as it could be" while it is in here getting work done to it. Jeff all that makes perfect sence it just seemed to me that it wouldn't have taken a whole lot of money to fix such a big problem and i say again the problem we are refering to is not what blew the motor. I posted about the IAT temps to clarify for others the differences in Expected IATs between NA and boosted cars and i think i'm being misunderstood i didn't wright that very well and my intentions and reason for posting what i did have been overlooked. i have nothing against IPS i have nothing against ericZ06 i have gotten several texts about what IPS did to erics car or what they are going to do about fixing it i was simply trying to clarify how one problem did not lead to another. i could have said IPS sucks don't go there but i thought it best to post the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 ..... any body else want some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 huh, what do you mean you people? http://finephotoplay.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tropic-thunder.jpg LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 huh, what do you mean you people? http://finephotoplay.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tropic-thunder.jpg WINNNNNARRRRRRRR!!!!!! I'm all for a good debate guys, just dont get personal or the thread will be locked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Can we bring back the kitchen yet?? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Can we bring back the kitchen yet?? lol no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Can we bring back the kitchen yet?? lol No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 huh, what do you mean you people? i wonder myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1647545496 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 WINNNNNARRRRRRRR!!!!!! I'm all for a good debate guys, just dont get personal or the thread will be locked up. there is nothing personal if anything i was trying to help them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 there is nothing personal if anything i was trying to help them out. How so may I ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1647545496 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 How so may I ask? because this thread is about eric blowing his motor and it turned into a thread about your intake setup and him running 200 deg intake temps. i was trying to say how they are unrelated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staywide8 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 If there was issues, wouldn't the owner be the one to bring them to light? They seem cool, so drop it. Srsly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 because this thread is about eric blowing his motor and it turned into a thread about your intake setup and him running 200 deg intake temps. i was trying to say how they are unrelated. Gotcha. I really didn't think that was in question but thanks Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc5.0 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Back in the real-world where budgets exist and I don't get funded by Microsoft, it simply isn't possible to make every car "Perfect" or as "Good as it could be" while it is in here getting work done to it. Jeff this is not an arguement statement, just me explaining what I think about budgets. They are never stuck to usually because of unforseen expenses. My first budget was 4k more than originally expected. My second budget was 3k more than expected, just do to things popping up....ie power steering racks, motor mounts, etc etc. It happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Speed S4 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 sucks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODoyle Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Can we bring back the kitchen yet?? lol Just to make sure you heard it the first two times... No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comebackkid Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I wanna go when I get my new civic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criitter7 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Wrong, you do not have to do this, it just helps in the tuning process, IE. Forced Induction kits on stock fuel rails... i dont understand please clearify? you have to raise fuel pressure with boost.. or you have no fuel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 When you race cars you break parts. It's as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Wrong, you do not have to do this, it just helps in the tuning process, IE. Forced Induction kits on stock fuel rails... i dont understand please clearify? you have to raise fuel pressure with boost.. or you have no fuel... You don't HAVE to, idealy you want your pressure drop across the injector to remain the same, given the injector is large enough you can compensate in the tune. This is not ideal but it will work. In a perfect world you do want a consistent pressure drop across the injector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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