ForeverMaker Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I am getting pretty tired of all the GM sky is falling stuff. OK so they sky MAY be falling for GM. They are paying for their past (and rightfully so), but they are really improving and making some great cars... The $89,325 Munich Benchmark vs. the $60,700 Motown Doppelganger http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0907_bmw_m5_cadillac_ctsv_comparison/index.html It's easy to jump on the bash bandwagon, but I was smiling like crazy when I got my Motor Trend in the mail and read that article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 The new V is a beast without a doubt, but saying that GM's latest and greatest is better than a 5 year old M5 is not as great as it sounds. The M5 has been out since 2005, and it took GM 5 years to produce a car that is about as good if not a touch better in most aspects. They still didn't produce a better interior, or a low key exterior on the V. So to say that GM is awesome because the new V is a great sports sedan is retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverMaker Posted June 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I didn't say they were awesome. But they are doing some good things that are easy to overlook in today's atmosphere of doom and gloom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Why defend a brand that did nothing but run itself into the ground. It was once the top automaker and could have sustained it if they were even a little proactive. They got complacent, greedy and corupt and now have to pay the price. I think its fair for people to voice their opinion about it. If they don't cut their prices at the sticker (no huge incentives to get buyers) and increase their interiors and overall quality (look at Hyundai), you might see them in this rut for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Just for reference, the genesis coupe beat the v6 camaro in that same issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 saw that a coupel weeks ago, that new CTSV is insane. Saw one up close and personal at the Cadillac Dealership the other day when i had to have some service done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Why defend a brand that did nothing but run itself into the ground. It was once the top automaker and could have sustained it if they were even a little proactive. They got complacent, greedy and corupt and now have to pay the price. I think its fair for people to voice their opinion about it. If they don't cut their prices at the sticker (no huge incentives to get buyers) and increase their interiors and overall quality (look at Hyundai), you might see them in this rut for some time. I think you need to read his opening statement again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I agree,the new genesis coupe is hawt!! and only $22k, i want bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverMaker Posted June 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 GM bashing thread is that way. Why defend a brand that did nothing but run itself into the ground. I said: They are paying for their past (and rightfully so) My enjoyment of the MT article still stands -- especially for a $30,000 difference! Thought I would share. (Hey Aaron are you going to be at Doc' Saturday? I haven't seen you around lately.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverMaker Posted June 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) I agree,the new genesis coupe is hawt!! and only $22k, i want bad. Slight thread derail.. but one of the big things I am seeing with Hyundai is their marketing has REALLY improved. They are seeing big returns on some of the promotional stuff they are doing. They are really a car company that "gets it." Now, I hope they don't do what Toyota/Honda has done.. and start to get too expensive to be the more affordable, nice alternative. Edited June 3, 2009 by ForeverMaker typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I think you need to read his opening statement again. I did read it and my posts were a bit out of place. I glossed over it in an attempt to GM bash lol. GM bashing thread is that way. I said: My enjoyment of the MT article still stands -- especially for a $30,000 difference! Thought I would share. (Hey Aaron are you going to be at Doc' Saturday? I haven't seen you around lately.) Yeah, I am going to be there. Hopefully I can drag the wife along as well. I went to the Gearheadz meet on sunday though. I go to a few things here and there. I just bought a new GTI about 2 weeks ago. 2009 GTI 6mt. Love it. We need to do another drive soon. It was fun last year. Slight thread derail.. but one of the big things I am seeing with Hyundai is their marketing has REALLY improved. They are seeing big returns on some of the stuff promotional stuff they are doing. They are really a car company that "gets it." Now, I hope they don't do what Toyota/Honda has done.. and start to get too expensive to be the more affordable, nice alternative. Indeed Toyota and Honda are pricing themselves into entry level luxury prices from premium brands. However people eat it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 The new V is a beast without a doubt, but saying that GM's latest and greatest is better than a 5 year old M5 is not as great as it sounds. The M5 has been out since 2005, and it took GM 5 years to produce a car that is about as good if not a touch better in most aspects. They still didn't produce a better interior, or a low key exterior on the V. So to say that GM is awesome because the new V is a great sports sedan is retarded. oohhh pick the sand outta yer vag. The CTS-V is a better car, regardless of when it was made. All that matters is right here, right now (song lyric from fat boy slim). You beloved german automaker failed at producing a car that would beat the V in the same category this year. Its not like they didnt know it was coming...On another note, i imagine the M5 will get a boost in HP and such soon to again reclaim its crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Just for reference, the genesis coupe beat the v6 camaro in that same issue. Not overall, it didn't. I'm still not too impressed with the new Hyundai. Of course, I would't buy the v6 camaro, either. And GM... ha! What happened to the 20+billion (not including money they've sought from other countries) given to them so they could stay out of bankruptcy? Must've fallen out of someone's pocket cuz they're still filing. Oh wait! They made a commercial saying how there was going to be a rebirth. See if I can find it... Rebirth of what? Bankruptcy? And who are they convincing of an American auto rebirth by showing a subway station and a guy who would rather run on one leg than drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 oohhh pick the sand outta yer vag. The CTS-V is a better car, regardless of when it was made. All that matters is right here, right now (song lyric from fat boy slim). You beloved german automaker failed at producing a car that would beat the V in the same category this year. Its not like they didnt know it was coming...On another note, i imagine the M5 will get a boost in HP and such soon to again reclaim its crown. First of all, my beloved German automaker is VW/Audi, not BMW. Secondly, car manufacturers usually cycle their redesigns around the competition so that their new model does not come out the same year as the competition. Each car then has the right to be heralded as "the king" of the class for a while. Audi and BMW did it for years and are still doing it with the S/RS vs M3 class. When they make the right car, occasionally the older car will still beat the new one. To say that 5 years means nothing in the auto industry is ridiculous. Not overall, it didn't. I have the mag right in front of me. 1st place: hyundai genesis coupe 2nd place: chevrolet camaro I do agree with you though. I wouldn't buy either car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 But the key is, not many people looking to drop close to $100,000 on an M5 would consider the CTS-V even if it does perform better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 decisions. can you say, pulley/intake/tune, and 650hp?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I agree,the new genesis coupe is hawt!! and only $22k, i want bad. Negative. The bare-bones 4cylinder turbo charged variety (producing around 220hp i think) is priced around 22-23k. The v6 track package tested was around 30k. Nice car but there are alot of nice cars in the 30k range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin R. Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 You cannot make an argument for ONE of their cars that only a small proportion of the population can afford. A car maker as large as GM survives by providing automobiles that the everyday consumer needs to drive, and wants to drive in. A $60,000+ sports car is not an efficient target audience. If you are going to make this argument, we could do Vette vs. XXX comparisons all day long and the Vette would come out on top most of the time. However, the reality of it is is that most people do not go Vette shopping. They go mid-size SUV shopping, mid-size sedan shopping, and pick-up shopping. All of these areas GM produces overpriced, cheap, unreliable shit. I am sure we will just see a bunch of tiny, lower-priced, gas-efficient shit now that Obama owns the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lustalbert Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 4300 lb sedan turning low 12s out of the box. Win. Now to talk the wife into letting me add another caddy to the fleet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Wow, that M5 got spanked everywhere. Styling wise, I think the CTS-V looks way better than the M5 (and I like the look of BMW's). Obviously the M5 can't keep up performance wise, costs way more, gets worse fuel mileage, has a 1 year/50k miles shorter powertrain warranty (and I am sure if far more costly to repair/maintain). As for the interior, I am sure the BMW fit/finish is better, but styling wise, I like the CTS's interior far better. I've always felt BMW lacks on their interiors compared to most cars in the same price/class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 The new CTS-V is a great car. The styling is even catching on me. For the money, I would totally entertain buying one. It is a hard sell for a BMW/Audi/Benz guy though.... You are deciding not only to give up on the obvious "status", but also the service experience is a big one too. Anyone who has had a car serviced at Ricart Ect. vs MAG can attest to that. However.....when we are talking a 30k savings, and mod potential, the money does the talking in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Negative. The bare-bones 4cylinder turbo charged variety (producing around 220hp i think) is priced around 22-23k. The v6 track package tested was around 30k. Nice car but there are alot of nice cars in the 30k range. How is that negative? I stated the new genesis coupe looks nice and starts at $22k, which you agree with me on. For a RWD/6spd/Turbo sports coupe to start at $22k, that's saying a lot. Lower it, up the boost and get aftermarket wheels and you're set. I would prefer the turbo over the v6, sure it has less power to start with but you can expect it to make more power easily and for less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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