Stimulus package part 2, for you JRmmiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[SAMBUSA]

Great ideas here huh? this is what you voted for buddy:mad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opxuUj6vFa4&eurl=http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/politics-election-2008/102636-no-stimulus-white-workers-middle-class.html&feature=player_embedded

[SAMBUSA]

I cant wait to see our democratic members' response.

[SAMBUSA]

I can.

Oh come on Pauly, dont you want a good laugh out of them trying to justify why they voted for people who are taking their $$$ and giving it to minorities? This should be good

[Disclaimer]

1) I'm not a democrat party line voter - I vote for the candidates with the best ideas.

2) I don't know why this is a threadworthy topic?? You find a 3 minute snippet from CSPAN on the internet that's been edited up by this "NakedEmporerNews" place. I've never heard of them, and when I google them it seems they're credited on a bunch of right wing sites. We don't have to get into the bias issue, so moving on...

After seeing the clip, I still don't see the issue. Yes, he said what he said, but he was only using "White male construction workers" as an example of a group of middle class folks that do statistically well - he even says RIGHT afterwords that he's got nothing against "White male construction workers"; therefore it was used as a demonstrative term.

I don't see the issue with setting criteria so that the LONG TERM unemployed, minorities and women (statistically speaking, the people who get the shaft more often than not). This is a proposal, not set in stone, data still must be collected, numbers and figures calculated... then this "nakednews" guy sticks all that text in there trying to draw a conclusion from a weak inference. Not only that, he does it in a manner to incite anger and disbelief that these people are even discussing such ideas.

Example: 1:22 mark "How about the jobs of building the bridges your family drives over go to the best construction workers regardless of the color of their skin"

Again, Reich uses "white construction workers" as an example, not that the plan is ABOUT white construction workers. And the way the phrase is written "YOUR FAMILY" personalizes it to incite those emotions. I agree whole heartedly that jobs should go to the best qualified candidates, but its usage here is out of context. What if white construction workers weren't the best candidates? Then the whole 'getting upset that it singles out white people' is moot.

All the text over Rangel talking is based on supposition and premonition. Rangel says he wants to help the states, but they want their slice of the pie too. If the states want FEDERAL money for infrastructure projects, you should have to follow FEDERAL rules - otherwise, each state can finance their own damn bridges. Good luck with that.

Rangel talks about setting criteria to get "money where the hemorrhages" and where the largest job losses are. That makes sense, does it not? Employ the unemployed, inject money where it'll do the most good. Again, he wants to use NUMBERS and DATA to identify criteria.

The "don't worry about what the middle class is going to do" isn't because as the video states, 'they're too busy to know they're getting cheated'. Please. All the information is there if people actually read the bills and plans.

I was going to do some more legwork, but the girl is bitching at me to take her out to dinner - I'll be back.

[SAMBUSA]

So it's okay to tax me more and give it to those who dont work? That's pretty much what you are saying.

[Lost1888]

"Paying taxes is Patriotic." Joe Biden

And all his buddies seem to feel the same way. Not paying taxes until their called on it is how they show their Socialism! They live by a different set of rules. Until they get caught!

Socialism –noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

End Rant!

[Disclaimer]

So it's okay to tax me more and give it to those who dont work? That's pretty much what you are saying.

Unemployed means they are ACTIVELY seeking employment, yet can't find a job/career that can utilize their skills.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

Technically, they "don't work" - but they're not 'sitting on their asses' if that's what you were implying.

And W(here)TF did anyone say anything about taxes? Your personal taxes are going up and you know that for a fact? And you also know that your taxes going up is a direct result of supporting "those who don't work"? Funny, I didn't get my 2009 W2 yet to file in 2010.

[Lost1888]

Justin' date=' the money has to come from somewhere. You are correct, it may not come from Sam, me or even you. But it surely won't come from someone that doesn't have a job. Somebody's paying for this, eventually.[/quote']

With interest! Our kids and our grand kids!

[fusion]

With interest! Our kids and our grand kids!

You're right they will be paying for the War in Iraq and TARP for years to come.

[Fonzie]

Justin' date=' the money has to come from somewhere. You are correct, it may not come from Sam, me or even you. But it surely won't come from someone that doesn't have a job. Somebody's paying for this, eventually.[/quote']

Nahhh.....They'll just print another unbacked $279 billion of paper when this supply runs out

[Fonzie]

Speakin' of taxes......Who's this guy Barry O picked for his cabinet, that apparently it's now come to light hasn't paid his taxes until just recently, once he was selected, to hurry up & cover his ass??? I've only caught a couple blurbs on it, but I find it cosmically ironic......Didn't Barry O & his supporters try to dismiss Joe the Plumber for the same thing.....As if his unpaid tax bill invalidated his opinion along with his expired plumbing license?

[Disclaimer]

If it's the same guy I think you're thinking of, his invitation to the cabinet no longer stands. And Barack owned up to it, saying it was his bad for inviting the guy (he didn't know about the tax thing) and his administration isn't about passing the buck, it's about admitting mistakes, learning from them, and moving forward.

+1 on Fusions comment by the way. We'd have a lot more money to toss around if it wasn't all going to Iraq.

[cmoosego]

1) I'm not a democrat party line voter - I vote for the candidates with the best ideas.

2) I don't know why this is a threadworthy topic?? You find a 3 minute snippet from CSPAN on the internet that's been edited up by this "NakedEmporerNews" place. I've never heard of them, and when I google them it seems they're credited on a bunch of right wing sites. We don't have to get into the bias issue, so moving on...

After seeing the clip, I still don't see the issue. Yes, he said what he said, but he was only using "White male construction workers" as an example of a group of middle class folks that do statistically well - he even says RIGHT afterwords that he's got nothing against "White male construction workers"; therefore it was used as a demonstrative term.

I don't see the issue with setting criteria so that the LONG TERM unemployed, minorities and women (statistically speaking, the people who get the shaft more often than not). This is a proposal, not set in stone, data still must be collected, numbers and figures calculated... then this "nakednews" guy sticks all that text in there trying to draw a conclusion from a weak inference. Not only that, he does it in a manner to incite anger and disbelief that these people are even discussing such ideas.

Example: 1:22 mark "How about the jobs of building the bridges your family drives over go to the best construction workers regardless of the color of their skin"

Again, Reich uses "white construction workers" as an example, not that the plan is ABOUT white construction workers. And the way the phrase is written "YOUR FAMILY" personalizes it to incite those emotions. I agree whole heartedly that jobs should go to the best qualified candidates, but its usage here is out of context. What if white construction workers weren't the best candidates? Then the whole 'getting upset that it singles out white people' is moot.

All the text over Rangel talking is based on supposition and premonition. Rangel says he wants to help the states, but they want their slice of the pie too. If the states want FEDERAL money for infrastructure projects, you should have to follow FEDERAL rules - otherwise, each state can finance their own damn bridges. Good luck with that.

Rangel talks about setting criteria to get "money where the hemorrhages" and where the largest job losses are. That makes sense, does it not? Employ the unemployed, inject money where it'll do the most good. Again, he wants to use NUMBERS and DATA to identify criteria.

The "don't worry about what the middle class is going to do" isn't because as the video states, 'they're too busy to know they're getting cheated'. Please. All the information is there if people actually read the bills and plans.

I was going to do some more legwork, but the girl is bitching at me to take her out to dinner - I'll be back.

hey I am a white male construction worker... I'm getting the SHAFT right now... if I was something else I'd be getting the hand outs.. hell there are companies in columbus that get preferential treatment because they are "minority" owned/staffed companies.... they get breaks for JUST that reason alone!! not because they can get the job done faster or better! hell in most instances they are usually a HIGHER bidder then the other companies!! AND they get tax advantages too!!! so don't sit there and preach to me about equality and fairness... IT'S LOPSIDED and there's no freaking excuse!

[Lost1888]

hey I am a white male construction worker... I'm getting the SHAFT right now... if I was something else I'd be getting the hand outs.. hell there are companies in columbus that get preferential treatment because they are "minority" owned/staffed companies.... they get breaks for JUST that reason alone!! not because they can get the job done faster or better! hell in most instances they are usually a HIGHER bidder then the other companies!! AND they get tax advantages too!!! so don't sit there and preach to me about equality and fairness... IT'S LOPSIDED and there's no freaking excuse!

I'm right there with you.

[ReconRat]

1. I'm pretty sure singling out, or even mentioning in context; "white male construction workers" is a bad idea by anyone for any reason.

2. Bids for construction are known to go to the lowest bidder (with the biggest bribes).

3. We ourselves, collectively, are responsible for all our woes. Nobody else. Particularly in the category of "lack of education" or "quality of education".

4. Unemployment in Germany was running 12% to 15%. Unemployment in France is even higher. In France among teens and young 20s, it's around 25% with little or no hope. Greece is now suffering the same. Much of it is from having the borders come down in a EURO-state, allowing lower cost labor to move freely around. Not saying good or bad, but it's what happens.

[Disclaimer]

Apparently you missed the part where I said:

"I agree whole heartedly that jobs should go to the best qualified candidates"

I dunno what to say about your personal situation moose. I'm not in your shoes, but I have a feeling you might be leaving some details out about why you're getting shafted over "minority owned/staffed" companies. If they're high bidder, and they do shiddy work that is never on time, why do they win contracts? If they pass these "tax advantages" on to the consumer - then they wouldn't be high bidder, right? Or, if they are high bidder AND rake it in because of the tax breaks, then I wouldn't really be getting the best bang for my buck would I?

Must be doing something right, or some details are missing here? If this whole capitalism thing works, then people want the best value for their dollar, yes?

[cmoosego]

Calm down' date=' Comrade. You know a diversified workforce is more important than a skilled workforce.[/quote']

the part that chaps my ass is I payed into the union thinking it'd help me out in the long run... HA! I was way off base, the ONLY thing the union did for me was train me.... I've had to go out and FIGHT for every job I get... because I don't have that certain shade to my complexion... because the MAN was holding THEM down!! B.S. I got the shaft because some plantation owner 100+ years ago whipped their ancestor!! AND at that time MY ancestors hadn't even left EUROPE YET, because we were too busy trying to scrape a life outta rock infested earth!!! But thats for another thread... the point is this, I'm white and I get the shaft because of something I had nothing to do with!!

[SAMBUSA]

the part that chaps my ass is I payed into the union thinking it'd help me out in the long run... HA! I was way off base, the ONLY thing the union did for me was train me.... I've had to go out and FIGHT for every job I get... because I don't have that certain shade to my complexion... because the MAN was holding THEM down!! B.S. I got the shaft because some plantation owner 100+ years ago whipped their ancestor!! AND at that time MY ancestors hadn't even left EUROPE YET, because we were too busy trying to scrape a life outta rock infested earth!!! But thats for another thread... the point is this, I'm white and I get the shaft because of something I had nothing to do with!!

But I bet your union endorsed obama:mad:

[Disclaimer]

You sure you're a Republican moose?

[SAMBUSA]

You sure you're a Republican moose?

The democrats are okay with reverse racism..........................

[cmoosego]

Apparently you missed the part where I said:

"I agree whole heartedly that jobs should go to the best qualified candidates"

I dunno what to say about your personal situation moose. I'm not in your shoes, but I have a feeling you might be leaving some details out about why you're getting shafted over "minority owned/staffed" companies. If they're high bidder, and they do shiddy work that is never on time, why do they win contracts? If they pass these "tax advantages" on to the consumer - then they wouldn't be high bidder, right? Or, if they are high bidder AND rake it in because of the tax breaks, then I wouldn't really be getting the best bang for my buck would I?

Must be doing something right, or some details are missing here? If this whole capitalism thing works, then people want the best value for their dollar, yes?

nope I've been involved with small construction companies my whole career, I've seen first hand where minority companies get bids solely because they are minority owned, and even though the company I was working for was a lower bidder, because we didn't have a majority of minority workers we were denied... time and time again.. it wasn't that we did shoddy work or came in during the job with overages... we didn't have enough minorities working with us, not because we didn't want them, but because every one we hired didn't work out due to issues ranging from attendance to incompetance. Hell i went thru union classes with minority guys that bragged about the fact that they wouldn't get fired because they were MINORITY union workers!! If I didn't show up on time every time I was OUT the freaking DOOR!!

[cmoosego]

But I bet your union endorsed obama:mad:

yes we even were "encouraged" to vote for him...

[SAMBUSA]

yes we even were "encouraged" to vote for him...

Yeah, same here. I voted Republican. McCain was the lesser of two evils in my opinion

[cmoosego]

You sure you're a Republican moose?

I'm not a republican or a democrat, I have conservative beliefs... I feel we have been screwed over by both sides!

[Disclaimer]

I'm not OK with any racism. But no matter what race you are, if you start making excuses about the color of your skin - then you get labeled.

I'm a white male, I'm not on here pissed off or upset that I didn't get as large a scholarship than a black guy, or a woman (especially ones going to engineering school - it seems like they give the girls everything). I did what I had to do. Where there's a will there's a way. Life isn't fair, some people have better luck than others...yada yada yada. But luck really doesn't have a lot to do with success. People overcome hurdles, racial barriers, life obstacles if they really want to. Human willpower is pretty incredible.

You can bitch about things not being right, fair, or equal as long as the DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT outweighs the BITCHING ABOUT IT.

Edited February 7, 2009 by JRMMiii