Why is ther such a rush to pass Gov't Healthcare?

[AWW$HEEET]

i cant imagine people who dont have insurance dont want it.

 

I didnt have health insurance for the last year.

 

Did I want it? Yes.

Did I want it at the expense of the American tax payer. Hell no.

Was it my choice to go uninsured? Yes, and Id like to retain that right.

[El Karacho1647545492]

Perhaps next, the taxpayers can take care of your car payment, perhaps your heating bill ? If you get sick, and don't have insurance it is your bill to pay, not every other person in America's.

 

This bill isn't just about making healthcare available to those who cannot otherwise afford it, its about lowering the ridiculous costs imposed by the insurance companies.

 

I went to the doctor for a physical recently. All the bloodwork they did would've cost an uninsured person over $300 but because I have insurance, they company was only billed $120.

 

One of the objectives of this bill was to eliminate that retardedness. I understand the logic behind it; they charge the insurance co. less because they know they'll get paid. Well if they know everyone's going to pay all the time, it decreases costs across the board.

[iwishiwascool]

Those of you excited about Scott Brown's presence do realize that he voted FOR the Mass. Heath Care mandate.... don't you?

 

Massachusetts has one of the more progressive state systems in the country.

 

I like the fact that to retain his position next election he will be forced to show that he will not tow the typical Republican line. He will be forced to make compromises instead of being resolute in absolutes.

 

I'd like to see the bill broken down into individual measures that overturn issues like the pre-existing condition denials, enact tort reform, and initiate equal rules across state lines. That all sounds distinctively Republican. Where I differ is that I'm not ignorant enough to believe that these issues alone are reform enough to fix the system.

[iwishiwascool]

You all might read up on Massachusetts Health Care Reform.

[AWW$HEEET]

Fine, pass the bill, but just leave a space on it for me to sign my name to opt out.

 

If its such a great bill, why are the debates not being broadcast on CSPAN like it Obama promised, and why are the democrats having closed door debates? Why is Obama exempting Unions, and cutting special deals to states like Nebraska, in return for votes? This is political cronyism and business as usual for Dems.

[iwishiwascool]

Fine, pass the bill, but just leave a space on it for me to sign my name to opt out.

 

If its such a great bill, why are the debates not being broadcast on CSPAN like it Obama promised, and why are the democrats having closed door debates? Why is Obama exempting Unions, and cutting special deals to states like Nebraska, in return for votes? This is political cronyism and business as usual for Dems.

 

I know, right!

[iwishiwascool]

Why is Obama exempting Unions, and cutting special deals to states like Nebraska, in return for votes? This is political cronyism and business as usual for Dems.

 

 

P.S.

 

I just wish the Democrats could be more like the Republicans and pass health care reforms above water, completely transparent, and without deception!

 

Medicare Prescription Drug Improvement and Modernization Act

 

Some excerpts:

 

One month later, the ten-year cost estimate was boosted to $534 billion, up more than $100 billion over the figure presented by the Bush administration during Congressional debate. The inaccurate figure helped secure support from fiscally conservative Republicans. It was reported that an administration official, Thomas A. Scully, had concealed the higher estimate and threatened to fire Medicare Chief Actuary Richard Foster if he revealed it.[3] By early 2005, the White House Budget had increased the 10-year estimate to $1.2 trillion.[4]

 

The bill came to a vote at 3 a.m. on November 22. After 45 minutes, the bill was losing, 219-215, with David Wu (D-OR-1) not voting. Speaker Dennis Hastert and Majority Leader Tom DeLay sought to convince some of dissenting Republicans to switch their votes, as they had in June. Istook, who had always been a wavering vote, consented quickly, producing a 218-216 tally. In a highly unusual move, the House leadership held the vote open for hours as they sought two more votes. Then-Representative Nick Smith (R-MI) claimed he was offered campaign funds for his son, who was running to replace him, in return for a change in his vote from "nay" to "yea." After controversy ensued, Smith clarified no explicit offer of campaign funds was made, but that that he was offered "substantial and aggressive campaign support" which he had assumed included financial support.[14]

[Crossle]

They aren't trying to rush it through before Scott Brown is seated. If the dems. were to pull a dick move, it would be to work day and night to get this passed so they could use their supermajority in senate to ram it through.

 

Obama said he wouldnt do it, and Dingy Harry Reid said he wouldnt do it. And for this I am grateful. My bet is that it never passes.

 

They did do something like this.....right before xmas. When normally they would have been at home with their families.

 

You can't be saying that they didn't try to rush this through....they did try and behind closed doors at that after they promised that we would be able to watch the meetings on cspan.

 

Now they lifted the limit on how much corporations can spend on campaigns, which is just awesome, since those same limits were NOT on union workers who for the most part are Democratic.

 

The people spoke in MA, they clearly said enough is enough and I would expect landslide or at the least serious upsets in democratic states because people are fed up. This office is a joke, I said it during elections, I said it right after elections, and I am still saying it. Now people are seeing their Messiah for the under qualified, BS talking person he is. Not to mention how much money he has spent off his money tree. People gotta admit, Bush was much better than Obama, we have had 2 terrorist attacks in the first year already, plus a breach of security with the secret service. Come on now.

 

Healthcare bill will not pass now, everything else has been delayed thanks to MA, so no more damage can be done hopefully.

[iwishiwascool]

 

The people spoke in MA, they clearly said enough is enough and I would expect landslide or at the least serious upsets in democratic states because people are fed up. This office is a joke, I said it during elections, I said it right after elections, and I am still saying it. Now people are seeing their Messiah for the under qualified, BS talking person he is. Not to mention how much money he has spent off his money tree. People gotta admit, Bush was much better than Obama, we have had 2 terrorist attacks in the first year already, plus a breach of security with the secret service. Come on now.

 

Healthcare bill will not pass now, everything else has been delayed thanks to MA, so no more damage can be done hopefully.

 

How glad are we that we only had 1 terrorist attack in bush's first year.

 

What is it about defining one's political loyalty that makes one completely ignore reality and history.

[kirks5oh]

several points to make here---

 

 

most people without health insurance WILL NOT use it properly once they get obama's handout. in an ideal world, obama's plan involves::

 

1)giving everyone insurance

2)everyone with insurance now sees their family physician for routine checkups--catching minor health problems before they become major ones, thus saving tons in healthcare costs and eliminating the need for 'specialists'

3)decrease the number of physicians who are 'specialists'

4)increase the number of physicians who are 'family doctors'

5)decreasing the amount of money that specialists make by decreasing the amount of money that is reimbursed for 'specialty procedures'

 

 

his plan will fail miserably because::

 

1)people will NOT see their family doctor for routine checkups--they just won't. especially people who do not currently have insurance. i take care of my fair share of people without insurance---i will say in general, they just don't give a fuck. they wait until their problem is out of control, and they just go to the ER. giving them a 'family doctor' won't do shit

2)you can't decrease the number of specialists. the need for knee replacements (what i do) is going to go up 7 fold in the next 20 years, as americans get older, fatter, and live longer. knee arthritis cannot be stopped, or slowed down by a 'family doctor' if caught early--it just can't

3)specialists won't accept a pay cut---we've been getting less and less money from medicare for years. a knee replacement used to pay a physician $5,000 in the '80s. today, medicare pays you $1200 for a knee replacement. with 7 times as many people needing knee replacements in the future, i will not accept less money to do the procedure--especially since peoples' expectations/demands have increased so much over the past 10 years. since there will be so many people in need of a knee replacement, and limited surgeons to do the procedure--i will simply tell people if they want a knee replacement, i'll need $4,000 cash in addition to what medicare pays me. there are plenty of surgeons who already do that, and it is perfectly legal. so in the end, less people will get the healthcare they need

[wnaplay1647545503]

Kirk, is that $1200 all inclusive or is that just the specialists labor fee for the procedure?

[kirks5oh]

Kirk, is that $1200 all inclusive or is that just the specialists labor fee for the procedure?

 

$1200 is what i get paid for the initial visit, the preoperative visit in my office, the 2 hours of surgery, seeing the patient in the hospital for 3 days, seeing the patient in my office at 2 weeks, 6 weeks, and 12 weeks after the surgery.

 

$1200 is what i actually get for all of those visits and to do the surgery. the money that the insurance company pays the hospital is much, much more--maybe close to $30-40k. but when you take into account the taxes i pay, the malpractice i pay, paying the office staff, and the fact that only one in every 5-6 patients i see require surgery---that money doesn't seem like much.

 

especially when the metal knee or hip implant costs between $5-$10k---yeah....wtf

[AWW$HEEET]

P.S.

 

I just wish the Democrats could be more like the Republicans and pass health care reforms above water, completely transparent, and without deception!

 

Medicare Prescription Drug Improvement and Modernization Act

 

Some excerpts:

 

One month later, the ten-year cost estimate was boosted to $534 billion, up more than $100 billion over the figure presented by the Bush administration during Congressional debate. The inaccurate figure helped secure support from fiscally conservative Republicans. It was reported that an administration official, Thomas A. Scully, had concealed the higher estimate and threatened to fire Medicare Chief Actuary Richard Foster if he revealed it.[3] By early 2005, the White House Budget had increased the 10-year estimate to $1.2 trillion.[4]

 

The bill came to a vote at 3 a.m. on November 22. After 45 minutes, the bill was losing, 219-215, with David Wu (D-OR-1) not voting. Speaker Dennis Hastert and Majority Leader Tom DeLay sought to convince some of dissenting Republicans to switch their votes, as they had in June. Istook, who had always been a wavering vote, consented quickly, producing a 218-216 tally. In a highly unusual move, the House leadership held the vote open for hours as they sought two more votes. Then-Representative Nick Smith (R-MI) claimed he was offered campaign funds for his son, who was running to replace him, in return for a change in his vote from "nay" to "yea." After controversy ensued, Smith clarified no explicit offer of campaign funds was made, but that that he was offered "substantial and aggressive campaign support" which he had assumed included financial support.[14]

 

Lets not argue semantics. Politics are shady by nature, but Barack Obama was elected on the premise that he was the answer to all of out problems. He was going to provide oversight. He was going to provide transparency. He was going to introduce change and reform to benefit the common good of the nation.

 

Now he is introducing legislation so convoluted and corrupt that he won't let the debates be seen on a non partisan network such as CSPAN. Instead its a bill, full of earmarks and special deals. Bailouts got us nowhere, cash for clunkers got us nowhere, and healthcare will get us nowhere.

[HotCarl]

I didn't have healthcare for two years and I didn't care. If the .gov offered it, I would not have taken it.

 

There's always the "what if" scenario. Sure you can think your just fine without any form of healthcare, but "what if" your in a serious car accident or get really sick and have to be hospitalized for some reason? I dont understand how anyone could turn down free healthcare if they're living without any. I understand the stigma that goes along with 'living off the government but in general, if you dont have healthcare and your offered healthcare, why not take it?

[HotCarl]

Now he is introducing legislation so convoluted and corrupt that he won't let the debates be seen on a non partisan network such as CSPAN. Instead its a bill, full of earmarks and special deals. Bailouts got us nowhere, cash for clunkers got us nowhere, and healthcare will get us nowhere.

 

I gotta agree with you on this. When I first heard of healthcare reform my immediate thought was "cool, thats a good idea" then it just seemed to turn into a political feeding frenzy, its like everyone's payday rolled into this one bill and everyones trying to get their earmark.

 

I think the thing i hate most is not knowing who to believe, who's telling the truth or whos just spinning the propaganda.

[iwishiwascool]

Lets not argue semantics. Politics are shady by nature, but Barack Obama was elected on the premise that he was the answer to all of out problems. He was going to provide oversight. He was going to provide transparency. He was going to introduce change and reform to benefit the common good of the nation.

 

Now he is introducing legislation so convoluted and corrupt that he won't let the debates be seen on a non partisan network such as CSPAN. Instead its a bill, full of earmarks and special deals. Bailouts got us nowhere, cash for clunkers got us nowhere, and healthcare will get us nowhere.

 

I can get behind everything up until the getting us nowhere parts. The Bailouts were initiated at the end of the last administration. Remember when McCain dropped everything to rush to Washington to "help"? Not to mention that without the bank prop up things would have been much worse, that is a fact. It was stupid to not put provisions to benefit the taxpayers on the upside. Cash for clunkers was considered marginally sucessful too in achieving it's intended goal. I'm sure you understand the multiplication effect of injected capital. I'll go back to agreeing that this bill became a feeding freenzy.

[Guest Hal]

There's always the "what if" scenario. Sure you can think your just fine without any form of healthcare, but "what if" your in a serious car accident or get really sick and have to be hospitalized for some reason? I dont understand how anyone could turn down free healthcare if they're living without any. I understand the stigma that goes along with 'living off the government but in general, if you dont have healthcare and your offered healthcare, why not take it?

It goes deeper than just a stigma for me. I am ideologically opposed to the idea of my government offering me free healthcare, money, etc... I was aware of the risks, but also aware of steps that could be taken in the event of a serious problem.

[Guest Hal]

I can get behind everything up until the getting us nowhere parts. The Bailouts were initiated at the end of the last administration. Remember when McCain dropped everything to rush to Washington to "help"? Not to mention that without the bank prop up things would have been much worse, that is a fact. It was stupid to not put provisions to benefit the taxpayers on the upside. Cash for clunkers was considered marginally sucessful too in achieving it's intended goal. I'm sure you understand the multiplication effect of injected capital. I'll go back to agreeing that this bill became a feeding freenzy.

 

Please post studies that confirm that fact. Also, please post studies that illustrate the success of cash for clunkers.

 

Edit: Not trying to be a dick, I just haven't seen anything that said that.

[AWW$HEEET]

I can get behind everything up until the getting us nowhere parts. The Bailouts were initiated at the end of the last administration. Remember when McCain dropped everything to rush to Washington to "help"? Not to mention that without the bank prop up things would have been much worse, that is a fact. It was stupid to not put provisions to benefit the taxpayers on the upside. Cash for clunkers was considered marginally sucessful too in achieving it's intended goal. I'm sure you understand the multiplication effect of injected capital. I'll go back to agreeing that this bill became a feeding freenzy.

 

All cash for clunkers did was move forward a year or 2 worth of demand into the span of a 2-3 week period. Agreed, the numbers looked great, sales soared, but now that everyone has a new car, the lots will fill up again and the demand wont be there to match the supply.

 

Capital injection does indeed cause a multiplier effect, but there is also such a thing as a tax multiplier. Instead of wastefully spending us into a hole, I postulate that you just hold insurerers more accountable, and give back to the taxpayers the money that would have been spent.

[RedRocket1647545505]

$1200 is what i get paid for the initial visit, the preoperative visit in my office, the 2 hours of surgery, seeing the patient in the hospital for 3 days, seeing the patient in my office at 2 weeks, 6 weeks, and 12 weeks after the surgery.

 

$1200 is what i actually get for all of those visits and to do the surgery. the money that the insurance company pays the hospital is much, much more--maybe close to $30-40k. but when you take into account the taxes i pay, the malpractice i pay, paying the office staff, and the fact that only one in every 5-6 patients i see require surgery---that money doesn't seem like much.

 

especially when the metal knee or hip implant costs between $5-$10k---yeah....wtf

 

Bolded for truth. We just went through some itemized bills the other day at work (we're in an orientation program) that shows how everything we do, as nurses, affects the hospitals. It was meant to show us how we can trim waste and expenses to the patients/insurance companys, and in the end, save the hospital money.

 

Jesus Christ, that stuff adds up quick. It's amazing how a few dollars here or there, and 12 different meds/day can add up to a $150,000 visit in no time.

-$900/day for ICU room and board

-angiocaths = $8/ea

-albumin = $500/dose

-etc.

 

And the funny part is, I didn't really find any charges that I thought were 'excessive'. Its just that healthcare is expensive. No real way around it.

[greg1647545532]

So, it appears that a certain % of the population is perfectly content to live with their heads in the sand and never open a history book, and then when something that's been 40 to 50 years in the making (culminating in several MONTHS of debate in congress) finally starts to get close to fruition, they pull their heads out of the ground and start screaming, "Whoa, why is this happening all of the sudden!?!?!?"

[cptn janks]

...

[greg1647545532]

Wait, how do we know the bill(s) are full of earmarks? I thought the debates were sealed. And the bills are being written in secret. But we know they're full of bad stuff? WTF? MAGIC!!!!

[iwishiwascool]

Please post studies that confirm that fact. Also, please post studies that illustrate the success of cash for clunkers.

 

Edit: Not trying to be a dick, I just haven't seen anything that said that.

 

Wait... You seriously believe that the economy would have avoided a catastrophic event without the capital infusion? Sure, it could have been written in a way that paid greater dividends to the tax payers who assumed the risk, but seriously? What alternative does your retrospective insight tell you should have been done instead?

 

As for Cash for clunkers defining it as fact was overstepping. I concede that one.

[NTHER91]

$1200 is what i get paid for the initial visit, the preoperative visit in my office, the 2 hours of surgery, seeing the patient in the hospital for 3 days, seeing the patient in my office at 2 weeks, 6 weeks, and 12 weeks after the surgery.

 

$1200 is what i actually get for all of those visits and to do the surgery. the money that the insurance company pays the hospital is much, much more--maybe close to $30-40k. but when you take into account the taxes i pay, the malpractice i pay, paying the office staff, and the fact that only one in every 5-6 patients i see require surgery---that money doesn't seem like much.

 

especially when the metal knee or hip implant costs between $5-$10k---yeah....wtf

 

Your a fucking doctor u are here to heal and your bitching about making 1200 bucks for maybe 5 hr ( that includes all the visits) hey pal why do t you come back to real life and see why u can buy for the misses with a job that's pay 13 an hr.

 

Now I understand u wen to school and lots of bills from that but until u are out of a job u can now stop your bitching about how rich u are gonna be, just cuz u want to be.