dakotart Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 2000 Honda CX 1.6L SOHC - 96,000 miles Changed the timing belt and water pump last weekend for maintenance (car was running great before and getting ~40mpg) As I was changing those parts, I saw that the spark plugs were very worn so I also replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor button. The car will only crank now. It doesn't even seem to try to start. I have done the following to attempt to narrow the issue down. 1. Confirmed that I have spark (with old wires, cap, rotor button, as well as with new part) 2. Confirmed that there is fuel (can smell it on the plugs) 3. Replaced the crank sensor (old one has the correct readings according to Haynes manual) 4. No blown fuses 5. Compression check. Indicates low, but with all of the cranking, the cylinder walls are likely washed down at the moment. (Also, I'm not sure how anything that I have done would have changed the compression) Lastly, the timing did not get changed while the belt was off. If it did get changed it still appears correct as the timing marks line up and the rotor button is pointing toward the #1 cylinder. Any ideas on how to troubleshoot farther would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 The old timing belt wasn't broke or anything? First thing that comes to mind is a bent valve or two...would explain low compression too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 The old timing belt wasn't broke or anything? First thing that comes to mind is a bent valve or two...would explain low compression too The old belt was not broke. It was just due to be replaced. Also, after replacing, I turned the motor over by hand several times and it never binded up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Timing off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Timing off? As best as I can tell, (as well as 2 other people who looked at it) it is not off. Even if it was off by 1-2 teeth, it should still attempt to start rather than just crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 What was the compression at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 What was the compression at? #1 - 90-100 #2 - 50-60 #3 - 50-60 #4 - 40-50 I still don't know how the parts that I changed would have made it drop in compression. Also, I don't know what the compression numbers were before I started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky31186 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 did you pinch the crank sensor wiring harness? No engine codes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 did you pinch the crank sensor wiring harness? No engine codes? No I didn't pinch the wire. There is a rubber grommet where is goes between the block and timing cover. There are no engine codes showing on the scanner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 does it crank a lot faster than what it should? Can you toss a vid up on youtube of how it sounds when trying to start it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheezle Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) It sounds to me as if you have it out of time. Which motor do you have in your car? Im thinking its a 1.6l d16y8 or d16y7? To check your timing take a rachet and turn the crank pulley backwards 6 times and all the marks on the cam and crank line up after that you are in time if not try again. Heres a reference as I dont have the resources to copy the haynes or chilton manuals. http://www.ehow.com/how_6745239_replace-belt-1998-honda-civic.html Edited June 20, 2011 by Oneslow7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 It sounds to me as if you have it out of time. This motor will not bind up when you turn by hand as it is not an interference motor. This could be the reason for the low compression numbers as you have valves opening when they are supposed to be shut, thus the cam is not in time with the crank. Which motor do you have in your car? Im thinking its a 1.6l d16y8 or d16y7? Sure about that? I thought all honda engines were interference engines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bruh Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 #1 - 90-100 #2 - 50-60 #3 - 50-60 #4 - 40-50 I still don't know how the parts that I changed would have made it drop in compression. Also, I don't know what the compression numbers were before I started. those are pretty low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotarded1647545491 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 According to Gates it IS an interference engine. Page #10 http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=428-1466_web.pdf&folder=brochure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ef8sirJunkie Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 that engine is non interference. When you did the compression test you state the cyl walls might be washed with fuel. you are not supposed to have fuel shooting in the cyl when doing the test. pull the ecu and dizzy plugs. hold the throttle wide open and crank her. let us know furthure readings. I find it hard for it to run fine then do timing belt and lose all compression. Check the timing with the dip stick in number 1 cyl to find tdc then match it with the mark on the case to see the crank is in tdc. then look at the cam gear and see if its correct as it lines up with the head line. sohc Y series are a pain if off a couple teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 that engine is non interference. When you did the compression test you state the cyl walls might be washed with fuel. you are not supposed to have fuel shooting in the cyl when doing the test. When I did the compression test, there was no fuel spraying. I meant that they had already been washed down from trying to repeatedly start it. (while checking for spark, etc.) pull the ecu and dizzy plugs. hold the throttle wide open and crank her. let us know furthure readings. I had the fuel pump fuse/relay pulled, but did not have the throttle wide open. I'll retest. This may have been a reason for low compression numbers. I find it hard for it to run fine then do timing belt and lose all compression. I agree. Check the timing with the dip stick in number 1 cyl to find tdc then match it with the mark on the case to see the crank is in tdc. then look at the cam gear and see if its correct as it lines up with the head line. sohc Y series are a pain if off a couple teeth. I have already done these steps. Cylinder #1 at top dead center, timing mark at TDC, rotor button pointing to cylinder #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 does it crank a lot faster than what it should? Can you toss a vid up on youtube of how it sounds when trying to start it? At first it was, but I believe that was a no spark issue. Now it is cranking normal. I'll grab a video if I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky31186 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 No I didn't pinch the wire. There is a rubber grommet where is goes between the block and timing cover. There are no engine codes showing on the scanner. Suprisingly alot of people dont see that. Run the cover on and cut the wires. Only takes an hour to do a tbelt on the hondas. Just rip it all back off and go over your steps. You did put the crank sensor ring back on there right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Suprisingly alot of people dont see that. Run the cover on and cut the wires. Only takes an hour to do a tbelt on the hondas. Just rip it all back off and go over your steps. You did put the crank sensor ring back on there right? I have the covers back off and was going over it all again. (took it back apart to replace the crank sensor). What ring are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky31186 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 The part that the crank sensor reads off of.. Did you remove the crank sprocket? Or did you just remove the timing belt? Its a very basic setup.. Crank at TDC and cam with marks lining up with head.. Unless this is not timing related at all and has something stupid to do with the distributor.. Kind of hard to diag over the internet.. If you were closer to westerville I would come out and check it out for you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awfulcanawful Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its takes 100psi for an engine to run well..... so I would have to say your crank to cam timing is off....the compression had to be there when you started.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 The part that the crank sensor reads off of.. Did you remove the crank sprocket? Or did you just remove the timing belt? Its a very basic setup.. Crank at TDC and cam with marks lining up with head.. Unless this is not timing related at all and has something stupid to do with the distributor.. Kind of hard to diag over the internet.. If you were closer to westerville I would come out and check it out for you.. I didn't remove the crank sprocket, just the belt. so I know that part didn't move/change. I'll recheck the cam timing marks tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobiemcnooberson. Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Is the woodruff key still in the crank pulley? It could have fallen out and you will not be able to set correct time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted June 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Is the woodruff key still in the crank pulley? It could have fallen out and you will not be able to set correct time Yes the key is still in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan900 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I have seen this happen on a Honda before while doing the exact same maintenance. The guy doing the work ended up putting a small amount of oil in the tops of the cylinders to help the rings re-seat since they were washed down. No idea if this will help or not. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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