Lets Talk Surgery

[acklac7]

I've always been one to stay far, far away from Surgery. Pretty much turn to it as a last resort. Unfortunately I have arrived at just such a Scenario.

 

Questions for those who've had Surgery (any Surgery):

 

Did you get a Second Opinion? If so did the second opinion differ? What was the final outcome?

 

How old / Experienced was your Surgeon?

 

A few other thoughts:

 

My Surgeon, who is a downright awesome, accredited guy, is fresh out of Med School. That concerns me. Should it?

 

Any/All Feedback welcome.

 

Thanks Guize.

[Lauren]

Had surgery at Grant Hospital. It took them 7 days to assemble a team to figure out how to fix me. Had multiple opinions before going under the knife. I was in an accident and in the trans center so I had no choice to have it.

 

I remember the day of the surgery and not being out under before crawling up on the table to go under the knife. That was freaky haha.

[spectragod]

I know doctor's "practice" medicine, but you need to do what's best for you.

[Buteo]

Get multiple opinions.

 

Ask about his/her outcomes, expectations, and how many of this particular procedure they perform a year. Don't pick the guy that does 20 with 1 bad outcome. Pick the guy that does 250with 4 bad outcomes.

[kirks5oh]

Depends on what you're having done. Are you getting a simple hernia repair, or do you have pancreatic cancer and need to find the best surgeon in the world to remove it??

 

When someone asks me if I'm comfortable doing their surgery, I have no problem telling them I do 500 knees and hips a year, and that's all I do. Second opinion for a very simple problem?? Yeah, a little annoying, but it is what it is. If I have a difficult case I will usually encourage the patient to get a second opinion. If I can't do their surgery--which doesn't happen that often, but does happen--I will send them elsewhere.

 

When you go to the dentist for a cavity, you don't ask them for a second opinion. Nor do you barge into the cockpit during a flight and grill the pilot about his cruising altitude or flight plan--yet your life is completely in their hands. I know it's not the same thing, but you must trust the surgeon.

 

Just don't tell your surgeon you have a high pain tolerance. We hate hearing that, and when someone says that, it is a SURE sign that the opposite is true. Every time bro.

[mrs.cos]

And for fucks sakes - don't be an asshole at your surgery.

 

My dad just went in for knee surgery a few months ago and prior to the surgery he was told he had to remove his boxers for sterile reasons- he absolutely refused to do it. He was a total prick about it. Dad.. No one wants to look at your junk, I promise and even if they did- your boxers aren't gonna stop em!!

Drove me insane.

 

Sorry...

 

Anyways- if it's a chronic thing- just get it fixed- the older you are the harder it is to recover from things. I watched a knee surgery for my dad age him right before my eyes. ( a lot of it was his own fault but still no fun). It's been a rough few months getting him to recover and we have to go through it all again in the spring with his other knee.

 

Research online will weigh on you heavily- but don't let it cripple your mind on getting it done. Your doctor went to school for a long ass time, and they didn't let him do the surgery a without being trained by other surgeons. I agree if it's something non standard about getting a second opinion but don't overthink it.

[evan9381]

Just had surgery on Christmas day. Broke my femur on Christmas eve. Honestly, I didn't give a fuck who fixed me, as long as it was done. Worst pain in my life. I guess it's different from an issue that you're not in a rush to get done.

 

In the end, the doc has done an absolutely amazing job. I've got a rod in my femur, 2 screws by my hip, 2 above my knee, and a couple cables around the break. In the x-ray, you can barely even see where the break was. He's an older guy, maybe early 60s? Brought his 8-10 year old grandson in with him on the day after Christmas to follow up on people. Kid even had his own little white coat. It was awesome.

 

As of today I'm 3.5 weeks post surgery, walking with just a cane for short distances (getting around the office), and crutches for longer distances (from my desk to the parking lot, getting up and down steps).

 

 

before - http://imgur.com/yxYSAIh

 

after - http://imgur.com/knDmWA0

[BBQdDude]

If you have the choice use a surgical center VS. a hospital.

[DKilbourne]

I've had 16, yes 16, orthopedic operations over the last 18+ years. I don't have anything done unless all other options have been exhausted. If pt doesn't help after 6+ weeks and it isn't getting any better, then I start to consider surgery. I only have surgery when it's something that has become too intolerable not to do. I won't have anything done without trusting the doc either. Just ask questions that you have and realize that even with "no experience" he/she had to do a lot of work during their residency. Ask kirk what that really means.

[BStowers023]

I've had a titanium plate put in for a broken humerus and a rod put in for a broken femur. I didn't have much of a choice for either, so I'd assume your surgery isn't 100% necessary if you're asking the question? From my experience, recovery from surgery sucks, but the likelihood of going back to normal or as close to normal is higher than going without.

[evan9381]

and a rod put in for a broken femur

 

Do you recall your timeframe to be walking without any assistance? I was on crutches for 3 weeks, and working on transitioning to a cane for 3-4 days now...I just can't do it for long distances. Also, how long has it been, and are you back to where you were before the injury, or are you limited in some things/still feel it in there?

 

Not a common injury, like a broken arm or something, so I haven't found too many people to ask.

[sol740]

Well you could be me a few weeks back, walk into the ER with a stabbing stomach ache and get immediately checked in for an appendectomy, no opinions, time to think, or options beyond "well, do you want to die?".

 

I didn't, so I had the surgery, and as I was recovering, literally inside my hospital room, there was a story on the news about how they are treating appendicitis with strong antibiotics now, with a 75% success rate. FUUUUUUUUUUUU ...

[Mojoe]

I had some work done in 2008 the required a cut on my left side. I knew I was going to be put under, so I wrote with a sharpie on my right side "wrong side". Of course when they went to work, on the correct side, they saw it. When I woke up, the Doc came in to check on me and I remember him saying he thought it was pretty funny. I'm sure they see it all the time.

[gillbot]

Just don't tell your surgeon you have a high pain tolerance. We hate hearing that, and when someone says that, it is a SURE sign that the opposite is true. Every time bro.

 

What if your surgeon tells you that you have a high tolerance for pain? No joke, I've been told that by four of them so far. All have advised me that if something bothers me, get it checked out because by the time it causes me real pain, im in very bad shape.

[kshymkiw83]

Just don't tell your surgeon you have a high pain tolerance. We hate hearing that, and when someone says that, it is a SURE sign that the opposite is true. Every time bro.

 

My wife has had 28 Orthopedic Surgeries over the course of 16 years. She is permanently on Fentanyl, Morphine, and several other drugs to help with her pain. There is nothing more annoying than going to a doctor/surgeon who won't listen to her about her pain.

 

We had a nurse try to put in IV in her nearly 30 times - and then had the nerve to tell her that her pain tolerance was low, because on time 25 she got pissed.

 

 

When someone asks me if I'm comfortable doing their surgery, I have no problem telling them I do 500 knees and hips a year, and that's all I do. Second opinion for a very simple problem?? Yeah, a little annoying, but it is what it is. If I have a difficult case I will usually encourage the patient to get a second opinion. If I can't do their surgery--which doesn't happen that often, but does happen--I will send them elsewhere.

 

When you go to the dentist for a cavity, you don't ask them for a second opinion. Nor do you barge into the cockpit during a flight and grill the pilot about his cruising altitude or flight plan--yet your life is completely in their hands. I know it's not the same thing, but you must trust the surgeon.

 

I don't know you, either personally or professionally, but if you got annoyed by the fact that I want to seek a second opinion for anything being done to my body, I would never come back to you.

 

I have gone to 7 doctors and been told 7 different things were wrong with me. For the most part even surgeons will say "We just have to wait and see when we get in there". I understand the situation you guys are being put in, and respect what you have to say, and your opinion. Sadly there are too many doctors out there who are just guessing, for lack of better terms.

 

To counter your statements about Flying/Dentistry - You haggle with almost anyone who does sales and makes a living on commission. Seeing a doctor to some degree is nothing more than their commission. If no one is seeing the doctor, and the doctor is doing procedures, they may not have a job, especially in a private practice.

 

It goes both ways.

 

To the OP - I had surgery recently on my ankle - I tore 2 ligaments and a tendon. After seeking about 5 opinions and trying PT, I decided surgery was the only way to fix it. I went to a Podiatrist who specialized in ankle repairs, and said she could do the surgery without using hardware, which is what 3 of the 5 doctors said I would need. I spent some extra money finding who I didn't want to use - but for the fact I don't have hardware in my ankle it was 500% worth it.

[kirks5oh]

Well you could be me a few weeks back, walk into the ER with a stabbing stomach ache and get immediately checked in for an appendectomy, no opinions, time to think, or options beyond "well, do you want to die?".

 

I didn't, so I had the surgery, and as I was recovering, literally inside my hospital room, there was a story on the news about how they are treating appendicitis with strong antibiotics now, with a 75% success rate. FUUUUUUUUUUUU ...

 

I don't see appendicitis being treated with antibiotics successfully, due to the fact most people don't realize they have it until it's about to rupture. And that is the most common general surgical procedure done. 7% of the population gets their appendix removed at some point in their life. Most surgeons have elective practices and take call for emergency purposes---they don't need the revenue from call to earn a living--that is my practice. I do 500 elective surgeries a year, and maybe 25-30 emergency ones. I don't mind call, but some people hate it. It doesn't pay the bills, and potentially keeps you up all night and ruins the next day's elective office or surgeries. But it's part of the job and a valued responsibility. some of these 25-30 patients don't have insurance, and no means to pay for services rendered. Doesn't bother me one bit---they get the Mercedes Benz, 110% effort every time. What does bother me is when some of these patients can be the most demanding, and least thankful. Quickest to get irritated when they have to wait in the office, etc.

[kirks5oh]

What if your surgeon tells you that you have a high tolerance for pain? No joke, I've been told that by four of them so far. All have advised me that if something bothers me, get it checked out because by the time it causes me real pain, im in very bad shape.

 

Some people have an extremely high pain tolerance. Sometimes it's a younger guy. 90% of the time, in my experience, it's an older lady. I've done knee replacements on them, and seen them take nothing more than Tylenol. Blows my mind.

[Dharris89]

When I had my vasectomy, several years ago I definitely shopped around and asked for referrals. My doctor did a great job. Just ask my newborn son. Kidding on that last part.

 

I went into the ER for an appendectomy and didn't have a lot of options. The docs played hurry up and wait and didn't do surgery until the next day. Apparently it wasn't bad enough yet. The worst part was fighting Riverside after they billed me for six doses of a drug I am allergic to. I finally had to say take it off my bill or I'm going to get a lawyer and sue for attempted murder since it made my throat close up.

 

After dealing with insurance BS after my kids were born and various injuries, the bills and insurance were always the worst part. If you can talk to a human, call the your insurance companies and compare what they will pay with your doc ahead of time. Get any necessary referrals and always keep records of who you talk to and their contact info. Good luck.

[acklac7]

Depends on what you're having done. Are you getting a simple hernia repair, or do you have pancreatic cancer and need to find the best surgeon in the world to remove it??

 

When someone asks me if I'm comfortable doing their surgery, I have no problem telling them I do 500 knees and hips a year, and that's all I do. Second opinion for a very simple problem?? Yeah, a little annoying, but it is what it is. If I have a difficult case I will usually encourage the patient to get a second opinion. If I can't do their surgery--which doesn't happen that often, but does happen--I will send them elsewhere.

 

When you go to the dentist for a cavity, you don't ask them for a second opinion. Nor do you barge into the cockpit during a flight and grill the pilot about his cruising altitude or flight plan--yet your life is completely in their hands. I know it's not the same thing, but you must trust the surgeon.

 

Just don't tell your surgeon you have a high pain tolerance. We hate hearing that, and when someone says that, it is a SURE sign that the opposite is true. Every time bro.

 

Figured you would chime in. (At first was going to just send you a PM, but figured more people could benefit from a thread).

 

I have horrible hammer toes along with high arches. I've had this condition since I can remember (early teens) with almost no noticeable issues. Then, starting about age 30 (4 years ago) began to have trouble with significant pain in the ball of my left foot. Long story short things rapidly progressed to the point where Im now having trouble walking which is leading to significant trouble with my left knee.

 

I am currently scheduled for arthrodesis of hammertoes (my toes will be broken, then fused back together) a Jones Procedure (going to put a nail through my big toe, then relocate the attaching tendon) and last but least a strayer procedure to help relieve pressure on the balls of my feet. (Actually talked about having this done when I was 15, but declined because at that time I wasn't having any mobility issues like I am now)

 

As it pertains to pain; I don't mention that word unless it is absolutely excruciating and I am in honest need of help / medication.

 

Thanks for everyone's feedback, it's appreciated.

Edited January 21, 2016 by acklac7

[acklac7]

Just ask questions that you have and realize that even with "no experience" he/she had to do a lot of work during their residency. Ask kirk what that really means.

 

So I have, and I get the impression this dude knows his shit. Also he is one of the best Doctors I have ever met, just on all levels the guy seems to be top-notch. The only thing that concerns me is his lack of Seniority/Tenor (To be honest my Family is more concerned about that aspect them I am). Are Doctors/Surgeons ready to hit the ground running right out of MedSchool?

[kirks5oh]

My wife has had 28 Orthopedic Surgeries over the course of 16 years. She is permanently on Fentanyl, Morphine, and several other drugs to help with her pain. There is nothing more annoying than going to a doctor/surgeon who won't listen to her about her pain.

 

We had a nurse try to put in IV in her nearly 30 times - and then had the nerve to tell her that her pain tolerance was low, because on time 25 she got pissed.

 

 

 

 

I don't know you, either personally or professionally, but if you got annoyed by the fact that I want to seek a second opinion for anything being done to my body, I would never come back to you.

 

I have gone to 7 doctors and been told 7 different things were wrong with me. For the most part even surgeons will say "We just have to wait and see when we get in there". I understand the situation you guys are being put in, and respect what you have to say, and your opinion. Sadly there are too many doctors out there who are just guessing, for lack of better terms.

 

To counter your statements about Flying/Dentistry - You haggle with almost anyone who does sales and makes a living on commission. Seeing a doctor to some degree is nothing more than their commission. If no one is seeing the doctor, and the doctor is doing procedures, they may not have a job, especially in a private practice.

 

It goes both ways.

 

To the OP - I had surgery recently on my ankle - I tore 2 ligaments and a tendon. After seeking about 5 opinions and trying PT, I decided surgery was the only way to fix it. I went to a Podiatrist who specialized in ankle repairs, and said she could do the surgery without using hardware, which is what 3 of the 5 doctors said I would need. I spent some extra money finding who I didn't want to use - but for the fact I don't have hardware in my ankle it was 500% worth it.

 

Kevin,

 

I'm sorry your wife is in pain. Unfortunately, most people don't truly understand what the role of the surgeon is these days. It is illegal and dangerous for a surgeon to treat chronic pain with pain medication. Plain and simple. I never prescribe fentanyl. I could lose my license. The job of the surgeon is to physically correct deformities (be it chronic or acute), treat degenerative and acute issues with modification to one's anatomy, and surgically fix injuries. Be it a broken femur, cancer, knee arthritis, a hernia, or stabbing victim.

 

I don't treat high blood pressure, depression, and chronic pain with medication. It just doesn't make sense to do so.

 

Perhaps you missed the part of my response where I indicated if someone has a difficult problem (like your ankle),I will almost always recommend another opinion---even if the patient insists they want me to do their surgery right away. When someone sees me in the office they are usually referred by a close family friend who I have fixed, or their family physician. My work speaks for itself in my small town, where word of mouth is everything. If I offer them surgery for a simple problem and they want another opinion, that's fine. What is annoying is if they schedule surgery, and cancel at the last second because they want another opinion. Sounds harsh, but when surgical time is billed by the minute, it is what it is.

 

I'm not in sales--am not selling anything, and don't need to convince people to go under the knife. With insurance companies being so strict about covering surgery, by the time my patients are cleared for surgery, they are dying to get it done. Not being arrogant, it's just how it is, and it's concerning.

 

With regards to your ankle, I can't remember the last time i told a patient "we will just have to see when we get in there". That's what we call a john Wayne procedure and they are almost always unsuccessful. You know John wayne used to ride into town, not knowing what the problem is, but take care of business once you're there??? Doesn't work that way. Let me know if you want the name of the best foot/ankle surgeon in town. Sounds like you've gotten 7 opinions that are less than acceptable.

[acklac7]

What is annoying is if they schedule surgery, and cancel at the last second because they want another opinion. Sounds harsh, but when surgical time is billed by the minute, it is what it is.

.

 

What do you define as "Last Minute". Days? Weeks?

[acklac7]

Let me know if you want the name of the best foot/ankle surgeon in town.

 

Yes Please.

[kirks5oh]

Just had surgery on Christmas day. Broke my femur on Christmas eve. Honestly, I didn't give a fuck who fixed me, as long as it was done. Worst pain in my life. I guess it's different from an issue that you're not in a rush to get done.

 

In the end, the doc has done an absolutely amazing job. I've got a rod in my femur, 2 screws by my hip, 2 above my knee, and a couple cables around the break. In the x-ray, you can barely even see where the break was. He's an older guy, maybe early 60s? Brought his 8-10 year old grandson in with him on the day after Christmas to follow up on people. Kid even had his own little white coat. It was awesome.

 

As of today I'm 3.5 weeks post surgery, walking with just a cane for short distances (getting around the office), and crutches for longer distances (from my desk to the parking lot, getting up and down steps).

 

 

before - http://imgur.com/yxYSAIh

 

after - http://imgur.com/knDmWA0

 

That is a nasty fx. Looks like they did a great job fixing it. Unfortunately, it could be a year until you're running again. Hopefully much less. But I've seen people still limping at 6 months. Sounds like you're ahead of schedule on your recovery. I'm assuming a serious fall caused that. Snowboarding or skiing, fall off a ladder, or car accident. That is one of the toughest fractures to fix in a young patient.

[kirks5oh]

Yes Please.

 

Jonathan feibel and Robert gorseline

 

 

Lee and berlet do a good job too, but are very aggressive with surgery. I wouldn't go to a podiatrist for anything but a corn or ingrown toenail or plantar fasciitis.