TDI owners stripping their cars before turning them in...

[HotCarl]

http://jalopnik.com/disgruntled-diesel-vw-owners-are-stripping-their-cars-b-1790053005

 

This seem's like something a CR member would do?

 

One part of the article which didn't make a whole lot of sense was the question of ethics came into play. TDI owners are being reimbursed "handsomely" so they should give the cars back in good condition?

 

What about the ethics behind selling a car you misrepresented and lied about from the beginning?

[Geeto67]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because VW did something unethical doesn't mean you get to be unethical as well. That's what makes up part of your integrity - ability to do the right thing.

 

Additionally if the car was still under finance there may be terms in there that prohibit you from stripping the car, and if VW is buying it out may inherit those terms. It's only a matter of time before VW will do something to stop this practice.

 

 

That being said, it's pretty much understood that the cars are being removed from the market all together and thus depriving the used parts market of some valuable spare parts. There is an argument to be made that there is a social need for the non diesel specific parts of the cars but it's outweighed by the fact that VW is paying handsomely for each car.

[Not Brian]

people are the worst

[99StockGT]

I can neither confirm nor deny that someone I know in a 2015 TDI Passat once he was informed that the buyback was a set number not based on "condition" spent quite a weekend thrashing the life out of said ride. Now, said person is also a morally questionable asshole so... there's that

[zeitgeist57]

Now, said person is also a morally questionable asshole so... there's that

 

What were they doing with a TDI? I have a hard time believing their first and third vehicles weren't a lifted Bro-Jeep on Rockstar wheels and a leased, black 2015 Mustang GT with bolt-on straight-pipe exhaust...

 

...and ALLLLLL the LED's eBay can throw at the guy.

[-Alex-]

I wouldn't have any issues with swapping parts (HIDs with halogens, premium wheels with steelies, leather with cloth, etc.) but returning an incomplete vehicle is pretty shitty.

[Jewtoys]

VW is just scrapping them anyways, correct?

[Geeto67]

VW is just scrapping them anyways, correct?

 

Original plan was to implement a fix and then resell the nicest ones as used in the market as well as offer the fix to customers who want to keep the car. But there is no fix and the deadline for one is looming (if it has not passed) so....yeah it pretty much looks like they are scrapping them.

[Jewtoys]

Original plan was to implement a fix and then resell the nicest ones as used in the market as well as offer the fix to customers who want to keep the car. But there is no fix and the deadline for one is looming (if it has not passed) so....yeah it pretty much looks like they are scrapping them.

 

Then who cares?

[Geeto67]

Then who cares?

 

Judgy people on the internet. VW. insurance companies, financing companies.

[Mitch]

My gf turns her passat in next week, anyone need anything?

[Diesel Pilot]

My '09 Jetta with 90k miles is going back on January 7th.

 

While I haven't, nor do I intend to beat it to death before it goes back, there has been a feeling of ZERO FUX giving when it comes to the car.

 

I drive it to work everyday, it hasn't had a bath since spring, needed tires about 5k miles ago, got backed into denting the right fender on Halloween, and I don't really care. I had originally planned to keep the car right up to the turn in deadline in 2018, but that's too risky and wife wants a bigger kid hauler.

 

It is the only brand new car I have purchased and it's been the best vehicle I have ever owned. Its the Glock of cars, not flashy, works every time, never breaks, and gets 40+ MPG no matter how I drive it. It will be missed, and I haven't decided on the eventual replacement. I doubt I'll go back with a VW. I've had 2 now, a Touareg, which was the worst vehicle I've ever owned and the Jetta, the best.

 

The only thing I plan to remove is the Eibach rear sway bar I installed 4 years ago.

[Linn1647545492]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/310305375743083/permalink/1172879719485640/?sale_post_id=1172879719485640

[Aaron]

My gf turns her passat in next week, anyone need anything?

 

I'll swap you wheels

[Tim Davis]

I'll swap you wheels

 

Same thing I was thinking depending on what they are. I also need a cup holder insert from the center console.

[HotCarl]

My '09 Jetta with 90k miles is going back on January 7th.

 

While I haven't, nor do I intend to beat it to death before it goes back, there has been a feeling of ZERO FUX giving when it comes to the car.

 

I drive it to work everyday, it hasn't had a bath since spring, needed tires about 5k miles ago, got backed into denting the right fender on Halloween, and I don't really care. I had originally planned to keep the car right up to the turn in deadline in 2018, but that's too risky and wife wants a bigger kid hauler.

 

It is the only brand new car I have purchased and it's been the best vehicle I have ever owned. Its the Glock of cars, not flashy, works every time, never breaks, and gets 40+ MPG no matter how I drive it. It will be missed, and I haven't decided on the eventual replacement. I doubt I'll go back with a VW. I've had 2 now, a Touareg, which was the worst vehicle I've ever owned and the Jetta, the best.

 

The only thing I plan to remove is the Eibach rear sway bar I installed 4 years ago.

 

A guy on my hockey team bought an A3 "clean" diesel new. I haven't talked to him about it lately but he was pretty pissed when he found out about diesel-gate. I thought he said he is going to try and keep it but I don't think that's an option anymore.

 

In the meantime he piece of masking tape on the rear decklid next to the "clean diesel" decal that just read "Not so..."

[zeitgeist57]

Ugh. I know this sounds all "Get Off My Lawn"ish...but are people REALLY that spineless that they hear about DieselGate and are that bitter about VW? It's not like Takata, where a safety device ends up KILLING people...it's a company who knowingly worked around EPA rules but the vehicles STILL operate properly, just not as advertised. I'm all about taking a buyout when one is offered, but I'd do it with a smirk on my face...not some self-righteous attitude that my faith in Corporate America is shattered by VW and their lies...

 

- Aren't there dotted examples of other OEMs doing the same thing? KIA/Hyundai and GM inflating MPG ratings?

- Are people not offended that their information is being skimmed from phones, even though they are promised security?

- Are people not upset when businesses cut corners to save a buck?

 

Stop eating at fast food joints, drinking processed beverages, filling up through major petroleum company gas-stations, buying clothes from CostCo and devices from Apple, banking at Wells Fargo...

[Rustlestiltskin]

Ugh. I know this sounds all "Get Off My Lawn"ish...but are people REALLY that spineless that they hear about DieselGate and are that bitter about VW? It's not like Takata, where a safety device ends up KILLING people...it's a company who knowingly worked around EPA rules but the vehicles STILL operate properly, just not as advertised. I'm all about taking a buyout when one is offered, but I'd do it with a smirk on my face...not some self-righteous attitude that my faith in Corporate America is shattered by VW and their lies...

 

- Aren't there dotted examples of other OEMs doing the same thing? KIA/Hyundai and GM inflating MPG ratings?

- Are people not offended that their information is being skimmed from phones, even though they are promised security?

- Are people not upset when businesses cut corners to save a buck?

 

Stop eating at fast food joints, drinking processed beverages, filling up through major petroleum company gas-stations, buying clothes from CostCo and devices from Apple, banking at Wells Fargo...

 

My thoughts as well.

[RyM3rC]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because VW did something unethical doesn't mean you get to be unethical as well.

 

Wait, I must have misread the many articles about this... VW knowingly devised tuning that PASSED the .gov required testing cycle, but under normal consumer use returned better power and economy? That's exactly the company I WANT to give my money to.

 

In my opinion "junking" or "scrapping" a significant number of usable, functioning, fuel-efficient, safe, practical, late-model cars for the sake of "pollution social justice warrior" seems like the worst possible thing to do.

 

Wasteful LOL. I don't understand how anyone that bought a TDI could be anything but ecstatic? They got a nice enough car, AND they get a ridiculous buyout now?

 

This is America at its worst. Emotional and politically-driven punitive wastefulness. What a shame.

[Geeto67]

Wait, I must have misread the many articles about this... VW knowingly devised tuning that PASSED the .gov required testing cycle, but under normal consumer use returned better power and economy? That's exactly the company I WANT to give my money to.

 

The testing is to ensure compliance with laws. If you want to support a criminal enterprise go ahead. This is like giving money to the mafia just because you are Italian.

 

 

In my opinion "junking" or "scrapping" a significant number of usable, functioning, fuel-efficient, safe, practical, late-model cars for the sake of "pollution social justice warrior" seems like the worst possible thing to do.

 

It's not "social justice warrior" bullshit it's federal law. Whether you care about the environment or not (and clearly you don't), companies, esp foreign ones, that want to sell products in this country have an obligation to abide by the laws of the realm. It would set a bad precedent to allow otherwise.

 

Wasteful LOL. I don't understand how anyone that bought a TDI could be anything but ecstatic? They got a nice enough car, AND they get a ridiculous buyout now?

 

People buy things because they like them and they want to own them. Shocking I know. Now they have to give them up, of course there are people who are going to be upset. It basically boils down to this:

 

- VW broke US federal law. Some people are upset that a foreign held company would think so little of our laws that they work to circumvent them rather than lobby for change. A distinction that can be made here vs Takata is that VW did this intentionally, where as Takata didn't mean to make a shitty and unsafe product, they just did. It speaks volumes as to our country's agency with respect to foreign products and even foreign markets.

 

-VW lied to consumers. Some people are upset that they were lied to. We have a whole host of consumer protection laws to prevent this sort of thing. I don't like to be lied to just to be extorted out of money, do you?

 

- VW harmed the environment and used it's customers to do it. Some people bought these vehicles because of the advertised lower pollution impact to the environment and finding out they, the buyers, were unwitting accomplices to VW's crime would piss anybody off. If I gave you a ride, and when I stopped for gas you knocked over the gas station and didn't tell me till we were back on the road, I would be pretty pissed you made me an accomplice to your crime, regardless as to how I felt about gas station robberies.

 

- Some people just really wanted the product. And they proved it by buying them. And now they can't have them because the company didn't do the right thing.

 

Just because VW is "making it up" to people with money doesn't mean those people's outrage is any less valid. There is a lot to be pissed about here and it's not all environmental.

 

This is America at its worst. Emotional and politically-driven punitive wastefulness. What a shame.

 

Actually we have never been better if this is "the worst" corporate cheating scandal we are dealing with as of late. Remember all these laws are in place because companies used to just take horrible liberties with consumers, employees, and the government. Sure nobody died, but you can't say anything positive happened here either, plus it's a hassle for the consumers, hassle for the company, and hassle for the government.

 

If you are out there complaining about people complaining or asking what's the big deal - you are missing the harm entirely.

[zeitgeist57]

Let me try to respond to Kerry in a way that he understands.

 

The testing is to ensure compliance with laws. If you want to support a criminal enterprise go ahead. This is like giving money to the mafia just because you are Italian.

 

That's a terrible analogy to this situation.

 

And you're passive-aggressive comment could be applied to anyone who bought a VW/BMW...where does the absolution come into play that German cars were built by people/families for murdering factions during WWII? Sounds like if you want to get in the weeds, it would be tough NOT to support any criminal enterprise because nearly EVERY company broke laws at some point.

 

I'm calling the cops on Kerry...he's tearing labels off mattresses.

 

It's not "social justice warrior" bullshit it's federal law. Whether you care about the environment or not (and clearly you don't)

 

That's judgy. How's your Jeep running? Old motorcycles running rich? Properly disposed-of chemicals/parts from mechanical repairs?

 

People buy things because they like them and they want to own them. Shocking I know.

 

Be Kerry: mention something everyone knows because he's oblivious to his audience and wants to continue being passive-aggressive.

 

Now they have to give them up,

 

Not true.

 

It basically boils down to this:

 

- VW broke US federal law. Some people are upset that a foreign held company would think so little of our laws that they work to circumvent them rather than lobby for change. A distinction that can be made here vs Takata is that VW did this intentionally, where as Takata didn't mean to make a shitty and unsafe product, they just did. It speaks volumes as to our country's agency with respect to foreign products and even foreign markets.

 

Takata cheapened out as much as possible to improve profitability and deliver a compliant product for clients, while still satisfying their shareholders. There's definitely "knowledge" in what they were doing...there just wasn't a well-defined law against corporates doing corporate stuff like that...yet.

 

-VW lied to consumers. Some people are upset that they were lied to. We have a whole host of consumer protection laws to prevent this sort of thing. I don't like to be lied to just to be extorted out of money, do you?

 

Gee, Kerry...now that you mentioned it I DON'T LIKE TO BE LIED TO EITHER. That's probably why I skeptically view major news sources, Facebook, commercials, or pretty much any report sponsored by a for-profit or non-profit entity that has a political benefit one way or another depending on how a report draws a conclusion before being released to the public.

 

Been around the block, and don't need laws to protect common-sense when I'm looking out for my best interests. I'm not as naive as you are.

 

- VW harmed the environment and used it's customers to do it. Some people bought these vehicles because of the advertised lower pollution impact to the environment and finding out they, the buyers, were unwitting accomplices to VW's crime would piss anybody off. If I gave you a ride, and when I stopped for gas you knocked over the gas station and didn't tell me till we were back on the road, I would be pretty pissed you made me an accomplice to your crime, regardless as to how I felt about gas station robberies.

 

Clearly, you enjoy interpreting a past scenario as a springboard to make fantastical analogies that overly-dramaticize your stance on an issue. It's easy to see how enjoyable this is when you can operate in a vacuum. This happens all the time with many, many products you buy or services you pay to use on a daily basis.

 

- Some people just really wanted the product. And they proved it by buying them. And now they can't have them because the company didn't do the right thing.

 

They can still own and drive their car...no mandate for VW to take TDIs from customers, albeit with anticipated greater depreciation. If market forces and dimished values were a crime, Jaguar and Mercedes would never be able to sell a car in the U.S.

 

Just because VW is "making it up" to people with money doesn't mean those people's outrage is any less valid. There is a lot to be pissed about here and it's not all environmental.

 

Right...but Toyota isn't buying Camry's back after people died or GM's not buying back Cavaliers because people died...VW is buying back whole cars because they broke a law and people are STILL treating them horribly, with little regard to the double-standard OR whether they should've bought from VW in the first place, given their ideals.

 

Actually we have never been better if this is "the worst" corporate cheating scandal we are dealing with as of late. Remember all these laws are in place because companies used to just take horrible liberties with consumers, employees, and the government. Sure nobody died, but you can't say anything positive happened here either, plus it's a hassle for the consumers, hassle for the company, and hassle for the government.

 

If you are out there complaining about people complaining or asking what's the big deal - you are missing the harm entirely.

 

No...I'm disappointed that all the above entities you've listed serve a customer, a citizen, and/or consumer that has ever-evolving expectations to be served at an increasingly disregarded for personal responsibility or common-sense approach to what is reasonable, given an offense. I'm not challenging the laws, and I'm not suggesting that people should care any more or less about the environment, consumer protection laws, etc - LIKE YOU CLEARLY ARE COMFORTABLE JUDGING - but I am lamenting the absence of basic tenants that consumers should have.

 

The consumer cannot be trusted to make purchasing and consumption decisions for their best interests - that's now the responsibility of the corporation; The more that we can litigate "caveat emptor" out of a free-market economy, the better. Or, that's what Kerry wants to believe.

[RyM3rC]

Shit I totally forgot I trolled in here. Looks like Clay has this handled

- VW harmed the environment and used it's customers to do it. Some people bought these vehicles because of the advertised lower pollution impact to the environment and finding out they, the buyers, were unwitting accomplices to VW's crime would piss anybody off.

 

Are you sure you're not just saying that to try and make some idiots look like nasty ol' evil super-genius VW pulled one over on them?

[Aaron]

Let me try to respond to Kerry in a way that he understands.

 

Clay, you just destroyed Geeto. Fucking amazing. Single best post I've seen on CR.

 

He's no doubt crafting a response, but this thread is over.

[Geeto67]

Let me try to respond to Kerry in a way that he understands.

 

 

 

That's a terrible analogy to this situation.

 

Is it? Even though he was trolling RyM3rC, said he wanted to give money to them because they broke the law and he disagrees with environmental laws. It was a response to that.

 

And you're passive-aggressive comment could be applied to anyone who bought a VW/BMW...where does the absolution come into play that German cars were built by people/families for murdering factions during WWII? Sounds like if you want to get in the weeds, it would be tough NOT to support any criminal enterprise because nearly EVERY company broke laws at some point.

First of all it wasn't passive aggressive, it was overt. Second, there are many who feel that way today. Travel in Jewish communities and you'll see it a lot more common than you think. I had an ex girlfriend whose parents felt I had betrayed my heritage because I drove a BMW. I found it ironic that she drove a Supra and they had no problem with it. You are making jokes about it, but for many in the Jewish community the struggle is real. I was just making the point that wanting to give your money to VW because they broke laws you don't agree with has further reaching implications beyond protest.

 

I'm calling the cops on Kerry...he's tearing labels off mattresses.

that's not how that works.

 

 

 

That's judgy. How's your Jeep running? Old motorcycles running rich? Properly disposed-of chemicals/parts from mechanical repairs?

right now I am sitting on 6 gallons of coolant in my garage because every shop and parts store in town has told me to dump it in the river near the water treatment plant and I refuse to do it.

 

There is actually a pro environmental argument that can be made for continuing to use old vehicles which we won't get into here. The basic gist is that it is a form of recycling and the environmental cost of manufacture has already been paid back. But again he openly said he didn't agree with environmental laws so is it judgemental or a statement of fact?

 

 

Be Kerry: mention something everyone knows because he's oblivious to his audience and wants to continue being passive-aggressive.

Clay, for someone who "hates" passive aggressive behavior you sure do post a lot of it yourself on this site. Actually this was my attempt at sarcasm and humor but I don't expect this audience to get my sense of humor.

 

 

Not true.

There is no fix beyond being in test mode 100% of the time and that hasn't been approved so there is a functional loss to the owner of the vehicle. Here in Ohio we mostly enjoy no emissions checks but in other states the option is going to be either a loss of usefulness, a higher maintenance cost to keep flashing the computer to pass, of giving up the car. Sounds like no matter what they lose something, at least with the buy back they get money.

 

 

 

Takata cheapened out as much as possible to improve profitability and deliver a compliant product for clients, while still satisfying their shareholders. There's definitely "knowledge" in what they were doing...there just wasn't a well-defined law against corporates doing corporate stuff like that...yet.

Products liability law is strict liability. The mfg is on the hook for the product and the harm it causes no matter what. VW also has a products liability problem here but the bigger problem is how do you prove harm? The cheating is much easier to penalize. These are two completely different areas of law, being handled by different groups (one governmental on civil). You are comparing apples to motorcycles. Don't believe me ask your lawyer wife about the difference between a civil products liability suit and government sanctions against a foreign corporation.

 

 

Gee, Kerry...now that you mentioned it I DON'T LIKE TO BE LIED TO EITHER. That's probably why I skeptically view major news sources, Facebook, commercials, or pretty much any report sponsored by a for-profit or non-profit entity that has a political benefit one way or another depending on how a report draws a conclusion before being released to the public.

 

And that is relevant how?

 

Been around the block, and don't need laws to protect common-sense when I'm looking out for my best interests. I'm not as naive as you are.

 

This isn't about common sense. You can't even fathom the ways and lengths in which companies have tried to defraud the American public for a buck and still do (remember when they said oxycodone was non-addictive in the 1990's?). Whether you know it or not or like it or not you need consumer protection laws. Your are exactly as naive as I am or anybody else because those looking to pull this stuff off are actively hiding it from you.

 

Clearly, you enjoy interpreting a past scenario as a springboard to make fantastical analogies that overly-dramaticize your stance on an issue. It's easy to see how enjoyable this is when you can operate in a vacuum. This happens all the time with many, many products you buy or services you pay to use on a daily basis.

 

Actually it doesn't as often as it used to because of consumer protection laws in place and the court system to help keep companies accountable.

 

 

 

They can still own and drive their car...no mandate for VW to take TDIs from customers, albeit with anticipated greater depreciation. If market forces and dimished values were a crime, Jaguar and Mercedes would never be able to sell a car in the U.S.

 

For the immediate present, but there are discussions in some of the more strict states about revoking the cars emissions certificates for that state. If that happens the owner will not be able to renew registration or import a used one into the state as the state attempts to rid itself of the dirty car. We are still not settled on this and the future for TDI owners who keep their car looks more bleak than just losing resale value.

 

Right...but Toyota isn't buying Camry's back after people died or GM's not buying back Cavaliers because people died...VW is buying back whole cars because they broke a law and people are STILL treating them horribly, with little regard to the double-standard OR whether they should've bought from VW in the first place, given their ideals.

Because there is a fix. If VW had a fix that was cost effective they wouldn't be buying back either. People are treating them horribly because the buyback process is more of a hassle than a recall repair.

 

 

No...I'm disappointed that all the above entities you've listed serve a customer, a citizen, and/or consumer that has ever-evolving expectations to be served at an increasingly disregarded for personal responsibility or common-sense approach to what is reasonable, given an offense. I'm not challenging the laws, and I'm not suggesting that people should care any more or less about the environment, consumer protection laws, etc - LIKE YOU CLEARLY ARE COMFORTABLE JUDGING - but I am lamenting the absence of basic tenants that consumers should have.

 

You are right clay, you do sound like an old man screaming "get off my lawn".

 

The consumer cannot be trusted to make purchasing and consumption decisions for their best interests - that's now the responsibility of the corporation; The more that we can litigate "caveat emptor" out of a free-market economy, the better. Or, that's what Kerry wants to believe.

 

It's not the consumer that can't be trusted, it's the manufacturer and the large corp entity. We had a free market - it led us to anti-trust laws, consumer protection laws, employment laws, all of them written in blood. The point of these protections is to ensure the customer gets all the facts before making a decision to buy and use a product. it does not absolve any responsibility of the customer beyond that. But cue you incorrectly mentioning the McDonald's coffee case in 3...2...1....

 

 

Point is clay, we get it, you don't own a VW and you aren't affected by the thing in the slightest. that's not really an excuse for you to be a dick to those who are caught up in it and unhappy.

[Miller]

You are making jokes about it, but for many in the Jewish community the struggle is real.

Ya making movies and eating pastrami sandwiches isn't easy.