Political Thread Of Fail And AIDS (Geeto ahead!)

[TTQ B4U]

Historically every "America First" organization from Woodrow Wilson to now carried some overt racist, anti-Semitic, and or xenophobic platform. You say it's "common sense" but really common sense would dictate that anyone's using the "America first" approach not be trusted to be impartial on matters of race.

 

Trump's message is not racist, it's pretty simple in that it puts our country and our people first. Period. It's not anti-Semitic or xenophobic.

 

Dude grew up in Hawaii and Washington state. He got as much influence from their culture as any other black American.

 

so all of his talks and videos about his Muslim influence is just a lie he spewed to the audiance he was addressing at the time? I don't care where he grew up or what religion he says he practices, it's pretty clear in his own words where his heart lies.

 

If you are one of those ignorant people that thinks all muslims are the enemy to America then guess what - you are siding with the white supremacists.

 

where did I ever say all Muslims are the enemy? next time you're around you can meet my Philippine neighbors across the street who have a mixed family of Christians and Muslims and listen to how they address the concerns as they see and have seen first hand both sides. It's very interesting.

[SpaceGhost]

Example please? Define "communist" flag that isn't associated with an actual nation.

 

 

 

I hate it when you literally don't know what you are talking about and you make ignorant seemingly smug comments like this. It really makes you look like an ass.

 

Facisim is a form of extreme nationalism characterized by authoritarian dictatorships. It is by its very nature a violent movement. Every facist regime that has come into power has done it by bloodshed from Hitler and the Beer hall riots, Mousolini and his black shirt secret police, pol pot and the kuhmir rouge, etc....

 

Antifacisim, which was coined by Mouisulini by the way as a way to propagandize his opponents, means you oppose a dictatorship. Churchill was an Antifacist, FDR was an antifacist, we fought wars over this. This isn't about who is suppressing whom, you have one group advocating eugenics, geoncide, the violent overthrow of the federal government, and you have antifacists who oppose that political position. They are not advocating government suppression of freedom of speech, they are meeting the tactics head on with their own as a way of neutralizing the threat.

 

If you have a problem with white supremacy, then why do you have a problem with anti-fascists - the people who literally have made it their mission to oppose that? Or to put it more succinctly " why do you hate America, bro?"

 

Now it's ruined, I wanted to see how far the stupid went or how long it would take.

[BStowers023]

Go to google and type in "Communist flag." Your logic is that the fucking nut jobs waving around the Soviet flag are former citizens of the Soviet Union who are waving the flag because of their pride in their former country? Uhhh no, they're advocating communism and you know it.

 

The Irony that is ANTIFA is that by their name they consider themselves "anti-facists." Yet, by their actions they are anything but. They do not believe in free speech. There are many examples of this, one is the Milo conflict at Berkeley. Part of facism is the suppression of the opposition. Isn't that kind of their goal?

 

Kerry, do not call me ignorant when you literally said all white males need to come out and say they are against white supremacy or it will be assumed that they are for it. That right there is one of the single stupidest fucking things said on this entire thread. I hope you were just saying that to get a rise and you don't actually believe that.

 

Ben, your bias shines brighter than a mirror reflecting the sun in Arizona. The difference between us is that I can call out the alt-right and the white supremacists for being fucking stupid and a threat to this country. You won't call out the radical groups on the left because (using Kerry's logic) you must be in favor of them, right?

[Geeto67]

Trump's message is not racist, it's pretty simple in that it puts our country and our people first. Period. It's not anti-Semitic or xenophobic.

 

"America First" is inherently racist, xenophobic, and antisemitic because those that cower behind that message define America as the white christian decedents of founders of the landed gentry class. It is often proven by the policies enacted on it's behalf. So far I think Trump is batting 1000 in terms of being consistent with the historical connotation of "America First".

 

 

so all of his talks and videos about his Muslim influence is just a lie he spewed to the audience he was addressing at the time? I don't care where he grew up or what religion he says he practices, it's pretty clear in his own words where his heart lies.

 

No it isn't a Lie. He was in part influenced by his father (or at least the legend of his father who was absent for most of his life) who was raised as a Muslim (the extent to which he practices is not known though it is inferred that he is Atheist or Agnostic currently). It is a common experience for a lot of Black Men in America to have a Muslim parent, and I am not just talking about recent immigrants. It is not a common experience for a lot of white men in America. But it is an American Experience. Obama also attended a secular school with a high concentration of Muslim students in a Muslim controlled country. This is also a common experience among recent middle eastern immigrants to this country who possess American citizenship. Yes it is pretty clear that his heart lies with America and the American Experience. The Total American experience. that includes the Muslim American experience. Muslims are a part of the American landscape. To assert otherwise is the definition of religious bigotry.

 

 

 

where did I ever say all Muslims are the enemy? next time you're around you can meet my Philippine neighbors across the street who have a mixed family of Christians and Muslims and listen to how they address the concerns as they see and have seen first hand both sides. It's very interesting.

 

You certainly speak like they are all the enemy. Your open support of the Muslim based travel ban doesn't help your case either.

[Geeto67]

Go to google and type in "Communist flag." Your logic is that the fucking nut jobs waving around the Soviet flag are former citizens of the Soviet Union who are waving the flag because of their pride in their former country? Uhhh no, they're advocating communism and you know it.

 

yup I googled it and the literaly only instance of this reported as happening is a Breitbart "article" [sIC] about a troll at a trump rally that reads like your cousin in 7th grade was telling you about it and contained no verifiable facts. So I have to ask, was it you? because you seem to be pinning a lot of hopes and dreams to this:

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/07/25/ohio-trump-supporters-rip-communist-flag-away-from-protester/

The Irony that is ANTIFA is that by their name they consider themselves "anti-facists." Yet, by their actions they are anything but. They do not believe in free speech. There are many examples of this, one is the Milo conflict at Berkeley. Part of facism is the suppression of the opposition. Isn't that kind of their goal?

 

Free speech is free of restriction from government. Are they they government? No? Then guess what - Antifa can hate what White Supremacists say all they want. They can also express thier opposition free from government persecution.

 

Private Citizens, including private universities and business don't have to put up with your shitty opinions because they are not the government. Just in case that isn't clear. Because I get the feeling that's not clear to you. you seem to think free speech extends to private institutions and it doesn't. That's the reality of free speech.

 

 

Kerry, do not call me ignorant when you literally said all white males need to come out and say they are against white supremacy or it will be assumed that they are for it. That right there is one of the single stupidest fucking things said on this entire thread. I hope you were just saying that to get a rise and you don't actually believe that.

 

You say way dumber shit. Apparently I ruined Benjamin's fun because he was waiting for you to keep saying dumb shit and I somehow ruined it. Apparently I have more faith in your ability to talk beyond your knowledge base than some of your peers. I believe in you...push the crazy, illogical, and stupid...you can do it!!!!

 

The "Unite the Right" did to white people what All of America has been doing to Black People, Muslim People, Asian People, and most other minority groups for almost a century whenever some small fringe extremest tries to speak on their behalf. I get that you don't recognize this because it happens to white people so infrequently, but you still acted exactly like you had an understanding of this. So which is it, are you just being argumentative because you don't like that I am right about you or do you really just not see it?

 

 

Ben, your bias shines brighter than a mirror reflecting the sun in Arizona. The difference between us is that I can call out the alt-right and the white supremacists for being fucking stupid and a threat to this country. You won't call out the radical groups on the left because (using Kerry's logic) you must be in favor of them, right?

 

false equivalency again. I am going to start calling you a white supremacist apologist every time you use this argument. Because that is what you are doing. Two wrongs don't make a right - they just make a bigger wrong. Saying "but the other side is doing it too" does not excuse that conservationism and the republican party has been raw dogged by the white supremacists of this country, and is continuing to be raw dogged in front of all of you publicly. Poor behavior on the other side is not an excuse for the poor behavior being done in the name of conservatives. It wasn't unite the racists it was unite the right. Whether you want to be or not you are in it now and the only way out is to not be a cuck and make weak limp dick excuses like "not all conservatives" and "but but but the left is just a bad...derp" but to attend town halls, attend meetings with your elected officials, mobilze your voice, and hold them accountable for this crap and vote them out when they don't act. Or you can continue to let the white supremacists prove the stereotype most liberals already had about the republican party.

 

 

However, saying the left is just as worse when you are talking about a few thousand disorganized people (the "Alt left") going against a few HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE who are historically ingrained in our political system for 100s of years is not an equal comparison. I am not a fan of violence of any stripe, but honestly AntiFa and whatever else just aren't a factor by comparison. You can't use them as an excuse for your impotence in the face of white supremacy.

 

The alt left is too small and too disorganized to be a real threat or factor. The White Supremacy of the "Alt Right"? yeah that's huge, scary, a real problem, and apparently openly tolerated in the Executive Branch by elected REPUBLICAN officials.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Geeto67

[BStowers023]

So the flag with the hammer and sickle symbol that some of the alt left like to waive represents what exactly?

 

Again, where are you getting these numbers? Are you just making this shit up to build your case?

 

My argument isn't that ANTIFA has actual power to suppress free speech but the fact that they consider themselves for free speech but then attempt their hardest to shut down any protests or speeches that they don't agree with because it's evident they only want their voice and opinion to be heard.

 

Now you're calling me an advocate for white supremacy because I think the left has radicals just like the right? :lolguy: You can't make this shit up. You claim to be openly against labeling people, yet here we are. I guess labeling is okay as long as it's not a female, minority or a transgender. Labeling and categorizing white males who don't agree with you seems to be your thing. Keep at it fat boy. There's a label for you.

[Geeto67]

Again, where are you getting these numbers? Are you just making this shit up to build your case?

 

Several posts back, there is a NY times article that cites a study done by the libertarian Cato institute. I even bolded it for you in that post because somehow I knew you wouldn't read it. You are libertarian aren't you? Something from a libertarian think tank should be trustworth to you then.

 

My argument isn't that ANTIFA has actual power to suppress free speech but the fact that they consider themselves for free speech but then attempt their hardest to shut down any protests or speeches that they don't agree with because it's evident they only want their voice and opinion to be heard.

 

Your argument is that it's ok for White Supremacy to continue to act on behalf of conservatives because you think Antifa acts on behalf of liberals. If you don't think you are making this argument I am telling you that is the crux of your message. If you don't want to make this argument then change your approach.

 

Now you're calling me an advocate for white supremacy because I think the left has radicals just like the right? :lolguy: You can't make this shit up. You claim to be openly against labeling people, yet here we are. I guess labeling is okay as long as it's not a female, minority or a transgender. Labeling and categorizing white males who don't agree with you seems to be your thing. Keep at it fat boy. There's a label for you.

 

yup. That is what you are doing. It's clear to everyone but you because you are mired in your own logic and being defensive about being lumped in with something considered historically evil. If you don't want people to think you are an advocate for white supremacy then stop making excuses on their behalf. Stop looking to misdirect the conversation to "the left". The White supremacists are literally telling the world right now that they speak for you because you are a white conservative male and your only response is to soak your drawers and yell "stop it" to people who judge you for making excuses for them and how you should be considered different.

 

You want to be considered different? You want to distance yourself? Get involved, go write letters, confront a congressmen, go punch a nazi (kidding - don't hurt anyone)....or shut the fuck up and stop sharing your shitty mewling whiny pleas about how they have a right to say they speak for you and we should treat you differently because you don't agree with them - even though you love to shit on all the mainstreams and liberals in this country as one collective group. I'm sorry, behold my field of fucks and see that it is barren for the poor little attacked conservative who can only be an apologist for white supremacists that are saying they speak for him.

 

Honestly, fat jokes? it's beneath you. It is literally a sign that you have run out of intellect. It is also indicative of similar prejudices driving unite the right....so way to go dude!!!! your drift to the dark-side is almost complete. I don't have to categorize and label you - you do it to yourself.

[BStowers023]

Tell me where I have stated that I am a White Supremacist. I'll wait.

 

 

Are you the decider on who is what? Are you that fucking smug to truly believe that you get to decide who is a part of what group based on your own moral basis with literally NO EVIDENCE.

 

Why do you do this? Why do you harp on anyone who shares any opinion with some form of evidence yet you spout off about something like this with no evidence and only your opinion. I literally said that neo-nazi's, KKK and white supremacists are fucking horrible but somehow you weasel around some conclusion in your head that I am an white supremacist. Makes 0 fucking sense, yet you call me the dumb one. Riiiiight

[Geeto67]

 

Are you the decider on who is what? Are you that fucking smug to truly believe that you get to decide who is a part of what group based on your own moral basis with literally NO EVIDENCE.

 

I don't decide shit. The White Supremacists just told the world they speak on your behalf. What are you doing about it? I can say I'll wait but we both know you aren't going to do shit about it.

 

 

 

Why do you do this? Why do you harp on anyone who shares any opinion with some form of evidence yet you spout off about something like this with no evidence and only your opinion. I literally said that neo-nazi's, KKK and white supremacists are fucking horrible but somehow you weasel around some conclusion in your head that I am an white supremacist. Makes 0 fucking sense, yet you call me the dumb one. Riiiiight

 

Yes you said they are horrible. Then you proceeded to weaken that opinion and ruin your credibility by saying that this much smaller group that you dont agree with is EQUALLY as bad, and therefore people shouldn't be as harsh to you. Except that they are not equally as bad. White Supremacist domestic terrorism is a greater threat to America than Muslim Extremists:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/trump-immigration-ban-terrorism/514361/

http://www.snopes.com/2017/06/07/threat-extremists-more/

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/keep-calling-alt-right-alt-right-soon-it-wont-be-euphemism-anymore

 

This "Alt left" you keep misdirecting towards? they don't even move the needle.

 

It's ok, Trump is suffering from the same thing at the moment. You are doing the exact same thing he is, except I think you were more forceful in your initial denouncement.

 

Being a centrist is not the play here. It just makes you look like you don't understand facisim.

[TTQ B4U]

"America First" is inherently racist, xenophobic, and antisemitic because those that cower behind that message define America as the white christian decedents of founders of the landed gentry class. It is often proven by the policies enacted on it's behalf. So far I think Trump is batting 1000 in terms of being consistent with the historical connotation of "America First".

 

that's your opinion but many of us don't fit that description. I would say most even. We simply want our gov't to focus on us US Citizens first and foremost with the policies and decisions being made. it's not complicated. if you wish to lump people into categories like that or try and use words like cowering that's your choice.

 

 

You certainly speak like they are all the enemy. Your open support of the Muslim based travel ban doesn't help your case either.

Again, your opinion on my stance. Just because I support his ban doesn't mean I think my neighbors across the street are my enemy. You often lump people into groups and cast wide nets but seem to not like it when others do that. You need to pick a stance on that matter.

[TTQ B4U]

Your argument is that it's ok for White Supremacy to continue to act on behalf of conservatives because you think Antifa acts on behalf of liberals. If you don't think you are making this argument I am telling you that is the crux of your message. If you don't want to make this argument then change your approach.

 

Kerry, you very very often twist your opinion into what you want to be a fact. I don't at all see Brandon making arguments that he supports KKK or wants them to continue or condones their actions as speaking for conservatives. He's been more than clear that he feels the KKK, White Supremacists, neo-nazi's and anyone of the such are all fucking horrible and they get what they deserve. Just the same that BLM and ANTIFA are fucking horrible too....and those are quotes from his previous posts.

 

Even more-so, no one is stating that the KKK even speaks for conservatives. I don't even think the KKK believes that. You need to stop that as it's quite apparent and negates your arguments which you spend so much time formulating into words.

[BStowers023]

Kerry, you very very often twist your opinion into what you want to be a fact. I don't at all see Brandon making arguments that he supports KKK or wants them to continue or condones their actions as speaking for conservatives. He's been more than clear that he feels the KKK, White Supremacists, neo-nazi's and anyone of the such are all fucking horrible and they get what they deserve. Just the same that BLM and ANTIFA are fucking horrible too....and those are quotes from his previous posts.

 

Even more-so, no one is stating that the KKK even speaks for conservatives. I don't even think the KKK believes that. You need to stop that as it's quite apparent and negates your arguments which you spend so much time formulating into words.

 

Thank you, Tim.

 

I don't know how I can possibly be more clear.

[Geeto67]

that's your opinion but many of us don't fit that description. I would say most even. We simply want our gov't to focus on us US Citizens first and foremost with the policies and decisions being made. it's not complicated. if you wish to lump people into categories like that or try and use words like cowering that's your choice.

 

In your simplification, you always seem to miss something called Disparate Impact. I can't tell if you just don't understand how it works, or if you understand it but don't think it exists.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact

 

you advocate for policies which have clear and consistently proven disparate impact and then you whine that people are making it too complicated or complaint that you are unfairly being judged as racist.

 

What do you want me to say. Just because you personally don't either believe in or understand Disparate impact doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And your choice to ignore it either way comes with consequences. I am not talking about other people or a group Tim. I'm talking about you.

 

America First under Woodrow Wilson was overly racist.

 

The America First committee in the 30's was mostly chaired by individuals who were openly anti-semetic and exposed a policy that also had a disparate impact on the Jewish population abroad. It was further taken over by the third Reich in this country and used to delay America's entry into WWII

 

The America First Party was the 40's political arm of the Christian Nationalist Crusade and advocated isolationism and a white christian agenda

 

Ralph Forbes, a former American Nazi Party president and campaign ,manager for David Duke, (as well as an Arkansas judge) ran for president in 1996 under the America's first banner with a handful of overtly racist and disparate impact policies.

 

Pat Buchannan currently fields his own "America First" party platform which as a large number of racially disparate impact policies.

 

And then we have trump. Tell me again how trump is some how different? Oh because he's not overtly racist? Still doesn't pass the disparate impact smell test.

 

Just because I support his ban means I think my neighbors across the street are my enemy. You often lump people into groups and cast wide nets but seem to not like it when others do that. You need to pick a stance on that matter.

 

It kind of does. Unless you don't really understand the secondary impacts the policy had on Muslim people from other countries (which it sounds like you don't).

 

It was a terrible plan in that it didn't improve the current situation, would not have stopped any of claimed problems trump thought it would address, sent a terrible message, had no practical enforcement without giving government overbroad and far reaching powers, and had a terrible disparate impact effect on a particular religious group in total. But you back it. you think it's a-ok. whatever dude, just say you didn't read it.

[TTQ B4U]

Thank you, Tim.

I don't know how I can possibly be more clear.

 

IMO it's not a matter of clarity from your view, it's a matter of others using some creative thought to skew what you're saying. It's no different than what is happening in the media with Trump. If I didn't know better you'd think by the media's response that Trump drove that car into those people. I don't even think many know the name of the turd that did drive the car.

 

His initial statement on the matter came out before the identity was even confirmed so he approached it from the standpoint that fuck-sticks from both groups were to blame. Doesn't matter who started it when both show up and do stupid things. Ripping down and spitting on statues.....reminds me of ISIS trying to destroy history. Like that's the right thing to do or makes bit of difference

 

His position and arguments aren't IMO formulated the best in terms of optics or how they come across. He's a political novice and clearly doesn't give a fuck. He even pisses off his own handlers I'm sure. That's Trump. In the end though polish and delivery matter only so much. He's not wrong that both side, regardless of who swinging the bat or spraying the pepper spray, are the problem. It's quite clear, neither on the answer that's for sure.

[SpaceGhost]

Ben, your bias shines brighter than a mirror reflecting the sun in Arizona. The difference between us is that I can call out the alt-right and the white supremacists for being fucking stupid and a threat to this country. You won't call out the radical groups on the left because (using Kerry's logic) you must be in favor of them, right?

 

There is only one side if you are American homie, and it's Anti-Fascist. That is America, we fight wars and arm people to over throw Facsist governments. It's what the American military does.... What "Radical group" are we speaking of? And if you are going to name BLM, you still don't understand racisim in this country. Quit thinking they want to take your white privalage away, they want to be treated the same as you is all. I don't think that is too much to ask, after all the Declaration of Independence states in the beginning:

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

241 years later all men and women are not treated equally in this country. Fact.

[Geeto67]

I don't at all see Brandon making arguments that he supports KKK or wants them to continue or condones their actions as speaking for conservatives. He's been more than clear that he feels the KKK, White Supremacists, neo-nazi's and anyone of the such are all fucking horrible and they get what they deserve. Just the same that BLM and ANTIFA are fucking horrible too....and those are quotes from his previous posts.

 

He uses the same tactic of misdirection and false equivalency to diminish the implied threat that is currently in use with conservative politicians at the moment. The Net effect of that is to weaken an otherwise strong stance against the KKK. It looks like he is making excuses on their behalf. I am telling him this is what it looks like. He isn't the only one doing this - this seems to be the conservative party line at the moment and it is being met with the same derision. If he feels otherwise his options are 1) to change his tactic, 2) accept that is how some people are going to seem him.

 

 

Even more-so, no one is stating that the KKK even speaks for conservatives. I don't even think the KKK believes that. You need to stop that as it's quite apparent and negates your arguments which you spend so much time formulating into words.

 

They didn't call it unite the racists. It was "Unite the right". Jason Kessler has given many many many interviews and has been more than clear that his goal with the rally was to unite the many fractured right wing groups, including white supremacists into a cohesive conservative movement.

[BStowers023]

There is only one side if you are American homie, and it's Anti-Fascist. That is America, we fight wars and arm people to over throw Facsist governments. It's what the American military does.... What "Radical group" are we speaking of? And if you are going to name BLM, you still don't understand racisim in this country. Quit thinking they want to take your white privalage away, they want to be treated the same as you is all. I don't think that is too much to ask, after all the Declaration of Independence states in the beginning:

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

241 years later all men and women are not treated equally in this country. Fact.

 

Fact based on what? Your perceived bias from the opinionated media sources you consume?

[SpaceGhost]

No, from my minority family and friends I am around and hang out with and see it with my own fucking eyes.

[TTQ B4U]

He uses the same tactic of misdirection and false equivalency to diminish the implied threat that is currently in use with conservative politicians at the moment. The Net effect of that is to weaken an otherwise strong stance against the KKK.

 

I've read his posts on this point and I don't see it. Not in his posts.

 

I've also watch closely and Trumps response on the VA situation and I'm watching how people twist his words. He never "supported" or called the KKK/Neo groups people good or anything to that effect. Yes, there were indeed a small group of protesters with a permit on-site protesting the removal of a statue. and there were peaceful protesters on the other side as well. THOSE are the people he referenced as "good people" on both sides of this situation. HOWEVER, the media and many people twisted that to say he's supporting the KKK and calling those turds good people when in fact that's not true and very clearly a lie. They do it partly because I'm sure some believe that but IMO mainly to stir the pot and create the shit storm that happens afterwards.

 

It looks like he is making excuses on their behalf. I am telling him this is what it looks like. He isn't the only one doing this - this seems to be the conservative party line at the moment and it is being met with the same derision. If he feels otherwise his options are 1) to change his tactic, 2) accept that is how some people are going to seem him.

That's fine and that's what you see through your optics. Same as I just noted above about those trying to come down on Trump. It's incorrect and that's my opinion and when people like Brandon double-down and state it about as clearly as can be you and others still refuse to acknowledge or accept his statements and instead state he must change his approach. No he doesn't, you need to change your optics and take what he says as fact and truth vs running it through some twisted filter. He's not stating that he supports segregation or treating people of color or jews poorly. Not at all. He's not wrong in lumping the BLM and KKK names into groups either. it's the easy button vs constantly describing exactly who he's referencing. Are their peaceful BLM members that just want to stand up for equality yes, but just the same their have their fair share of fuck-sticks just like the KKK and both of those groups of people are just as bad for our country as the other.

 

They didn't call it unite the racists. It was "Unite the right". Jason Kessler has given many many many interviews and has been more than clear that his goal with the rally was to unite the many fractured right wing groups, including white supremacists into a cohesive conservative movement.

who gives a fuck what those assholes call it. if the crackhead Neo's show up and support what you're stating does that make you a Nazi or a KKK Sympathizer? We have no control if they want to twist what is being said and then in turn say they support it. That's on them. The media and left tend to favor that stance BECAUSE it makes Trump look bad. They can't clearly be that fucking stupid to think he is a sympathizer with them when he too has clearly denounced them. I see the frustration and bewilderment in his eyes when speaking because when the fuck what comes out of his mouth not been crystal clear? Especially on this matter.

 

That said when I see twisted logic like this and say to myself WTF? then reality sets in and it's very clear what's going on....people aren't that stupid, you're not stupid and you know what Brandon's stating, you just don't accept or acknowledge it for a multitude of reasons. NO different than your comments about me thinking all Muslims are the enemy. Please, it's easy to see through.

[10phone2]

maybe this is all an end-game to create a redistribution of wealth to a few and lower capabilities to provide a cheaper work force under the guise of "social" justice.

[BStowers023]

No, from my minority family and friends I am around and hang out with and see it with my own fucking eyes.

 

Examples?

[TTQ B4U]

if you are going to name BLM, you still don't understand racisim in this country. Quit thinking they want to take your white privalage away, they want to be treated the same as you is all.

 

Their message and following has failed since they are guilty of what others are saying Trump is guilty of and that's not denouncing the extremist turds that claim to be a part of their movement. I've seen more negative examples of BLM supporters than positive and since I consider their roll is to control their message then they must be condoning the extremists. Like you Ben, I have a mixed family on multiple accounts.

[zeitgeist57]

<<<2016 Trump voter here (more anti-Hilary than pro-Trump).

 

Never again.

 

I can't keep up with the unnecessary noise around him....and then he cannot or will not defend himself sufficiently by press conference or Twitter. Srsly, lost it with his presidency. I thought noise (just or unjustly) around Obama was bad but this hornet's nest isn't dying down anytime soon and I have ZERO faith his patchwork cabinet can clean up the mess.

 

[devilsadvocate] If it's not Trump's fault - if he's doing all the right things and we all just can't see it - then our society isn't prepared to handle his level of genius. [/devilsadvocate]

 

I'm out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PLEASE don't fake news me, bro....he controls his own off-the-cuff comments and his own TWITTER FEED and he still can't get out from under his own words.

[BStowers023]

Since when does the President have complete control of social issues? Why aren't individuals held accountable for their actions? Is it because it's easier to point fingers at Trump and say "he did it!"

 

Why not focus on the positives of what's going on in this country? Our economy is extremely solid right now and is only getting better. The housing market is great currently. Unemployment is continuing to drop.

 

Yet, we worry about probably >5% of the populations extreme views on social issues because that's what's "hot."

 

It's almost like everyone is so fucking bored right now that they're just creating conflict just to fucking do it.

[Geeto67]

Never again.

 

 

Since you are one of the few consistent Republicans I actually respect, I have to ask Clay: how far are you willing to go with "Never Again".

 

Trump didn't do this on his own. He was enabled by particularly toxic culture inside the Republican party. We have to face that the George HW Bushes, Eisenhowers, Goldwaters, Mcnamaras, and Buckleys aren't coming into the party anymore and the few old time holdouts like McCain and Romney are not going to be around forever.

 

Are you willing to extend this "never again" to Ryan, McConnell, and the like. Rob Portman falls into this category - he has backed trump positions 90% of the time and had publicly more than once endorsed the Trump position. I honestly don't think he's doing a bad job, but I still feel like he kind of has to pay for his complicity in the Trump fiasco. Brown is up for election first next year and honestly I kind of feel like his position is in jepoardy and could use some support.

 

I don't think the party is going to change unless there is a purge of the sickness inside it. As much as I disliked Boehner's policies he was a staunch defense against the McConnell and Ryan obstructionist types and his resignation in 2011 can be said to be the beginning of the new ugly republicanism that has lead to a Trump presidency. Getting rid of Trump won't stop whats going on, some of the rest have to go too.