Political Thread Of Fail And AIDS (Geeto ahead!)

[BStowers023]

Ok, they aren't completely innocent. So what? They aren't the larger threat either. You can't use left violence to justify white supremacist violence. Two wrongs don't make a right. If your conversation is to pivot and point fingers to the left because you think a small amount of violence is equal to the number one perpetrator of domestic terrorism, then you are helping distract from the threat of White Supremacy.

 

We aren't out here looking for the cause of "liberal violence" we know the cause. It is the Increase in White Supremacist activity since this administration took office. The question is, why are the White Supremacists suddenly emboldened to become more public, grow their ranks, and act more? Well, maybe it has something to so with general conservatism's, the Republican party's, and this administration's tolerance of white supremacy.

 

 

So is it fair to say the rise in terrorism from Muslims in this country had something to do with the Obama administrations tolerance of Islam?

[Geeto67]

So what? People are bleeding in the street and your answer is 'So what?' Sweet Jesus...

 

What I mean by "So what" is what does it help by saying "the left isn't innocent"? It doesn't. It does hurt though, and it leads to more violence.

 

What is so wrong about condemning BOTH sides? You keep saying white supremacists are the main antagonist. OK, then fix that. Don't say its ok to become a little violent as a way to combat it, because that's not ok either.

 

I just covered that in False Equivalency. There is a consequence in condemning both sides as equal and that is it continues to legitimize white supremacy and embolden white supremacists.

 

 

Kerry, clearly you're in support of the Left, and that's ok too. But the whole argument of 'If you don't support XYZ, then you're a racist, homophobic, xenophobic, white supremacist' is exactly what put Trump in the White House to begin with. Keep it up if you want him back there for another 4 years. People get tired of being labeled something they aren't just because they don't agree with you. They'll rush to the polls and vote against you just to piss you off.

 

This isn't about who is in support of what, this is about the consequences of actions.

 

Conservatism's lack to act when White Supremacy began to publicly associate itself with it has continued to feed their activity.

 

Trump's weak and tolerant stance on white supremacy, his appointment of known supporters of White Supremacy, and his base's acceptance of this has directly contributed to the increase in violence.

 

If you voted for him you owe some responsibility to this. It wasn't like there weren't explicit warnings that this was a potential consequence - but empowerment of white supremacy was not a deal breaker.

 

I don't know that you can say you aren't "racist, homophobic, xenophobic, white supremacist", when your actions directly contributed to the empowerment of people advocating those things.

 

All is not lost though. Conservative America has a White Supremacy infestation problem. If you disagree you are just ignoring the problem, it is there and it doesn't appear to be going away. The first step is to acknowledge it. The second step is to identify the ways in which it continues to feed. The Third Step is to cut off it's food supply.

 

If you are trying to deflect or diminish the attack on conservatism by finger pointing at a much less significant problem on the left - you are feeding it. Stop

 

If you are supporting politicians that have ties or are advocating policies that have ties to the WS agenda, then stop supporting them. This includes any Politicians that enabled or support the Trump administration. Stop

 

The Republican party owes some responsibility to clean up this mess. Stop giving them money until they do. If they keep getting money and keep getting elected they are going to keep doing the same thing and some of that is enabling White Supremacy.

 

If you don't do these things, you can't say you are not racist, homophobic, xenophobic, white supremacist. It's on you - you don't want to be associated with these things, this is what it going to take to reclaim your party.

 

White Supremacy has always been a political problem for both sides. It has money, influence, and numbers, and leverage. Right now it is doing the most damage to conservatism. If something is not done there may not be a way to save conservatism in this country. This is not a problem that is going to go away if you ignore it. This is not a problem you are resisting if you are being centrist. This requires action.

[RedRocket1647545505]

What I mean by "So what" is what does it help by saying "the left isn't innocent"? It doesn't. It does hurt though, and it leads to more violence.

 

 

 

I just covered that in False Equivalency. There is a consequence in condemning both sides as equal and that is it continues to legitimize white supremacy and embolden white supremacists.

 

 

 

 

This isn't about who is in support of what, this is about the consequences of actions.

 

Conservatism's lack to act when White Supremacy began to publicly associate itself with it has continued to feed their activity.

 

Trump's weak and tolerant stance on white supremacy, his appointment of known supporters of White Supremacy, and his base's acceptance of this has directly contributed to the increase in violence.

 

If you voted for him you owe some responsibility to this. It wasn't like there weren't explicit warnings that this was a potential consequence - but empowerment of white supremacy was not a deal breaker.

 

I don't know that you can say you aren't "racist, homophobic, xenophobic, white supremacist", when your actions directly contributed to the empowerment of people advocating those things.

 

All is not lost though. Conservative America has a White Supremacy infestation problem. If you disagree you are just ignoring the problem, it is there and it doesn't appear to be going away. The first step is to acknowledge it. The second step is to identify the ways in which it continues to feed. The Third Step is to cut off it's food supply.

 

If you are trying to deflect or diminish the attack on conservatism by finger pointing at a much less significant problem on the left - you are feeding it. Stop

 

If you are supporting politicians that have ties or are advocating policies that have ties to the WS agenda, then stop supporting them. This includes any Politicians that enabled or support the Trump administration. Stop

 

The Republican party owes some responsibility to clean up this mess. Stop giving them money until they do. If they keep getting money and keep getting elected they are going to keep doing the same thing and some of that is enabling White Supremacy.

 

If you don't do these things, you can't say you are not racist, homophobic, xenophobic, white supremacist. It's on you - you don't want to be associated with these things, this is what it going to take to reclaim your party.

 

White Supremacy has always been a political problem for both sides. It has money, influence, and numbers, and leverage. Right now it is doing the most damage to conservatism. If something is not done there may not be a way to save conservatism in this country. This is not a problem that is going to go away if you ignore it. This is not a problem you are resisting if you are being centrist. This requires action.

 

 

Good talk. See you in 2020.

[Geeto67]

So is it fair to say the rise in terrorism from Muslims in this country had something to do with the Obama administrations tolerance of Islam?

 

Prove it. Show a direct cause and effect from policy to action. Remember Correlation is not Causation.

 

It has been discussed time and time again and is the general consensus that G. W. Bush's foreign policy following 9/11 was a gigantic contributor to the rise of Islamic Terror activities world wide, but again is not the only factor that contributed to that.

 

I would be more willing to say that Obama's widespread use of Predator Drone strikes (10x more in 1 year than Bush in his whole term) and it's reputation for killing civilians had more to do with the increase (a 7% increase from 2009-2014 and a 13% decrease between 2014-2016 according to the state department) than any tolerance of Islam. People tend to want to kill you for killing their people, not for giving them equal rights. This kind of hurts your narrative though because killing enemy combatants (and a shitload of civilians by accident) is not the same thing as empowering Muslim Extremists.

 

But seriously, prove that Obama's tolerance of Islam enabled Islamic terrorism. actually, you know what, I'll make it even easier - find some Islamic Jihad group that interpreted Obama's statements about them as praise for their Jihad.

[TTQ B4U]

I don't think he is saying only the Left is to blame. He's saying they aren't innocent. Clearly. Regardless of whatever the White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, whatever-the-fuck they call themselves do, this type of response isn't warranted either.

 

"When they go low, we go high"............ :dumb:

 

Agree. Both sides are to blame. No one is drawing a direct parallel of those on the left opposing the Neo-nazi stance.....I think it's safe to say even the radical leftist fucks oppose them as do the sensible peaceful left leaning groups. However, it's the way they handled themselves that puts them on the same playing field.

 

IMO people are either confusing or not clarifying the difference between a moral-plane of where each side comes from and the reality of how each side is actually acting.

 

I see four parties here:

 

Conservative even right wing peaceful protesters & Neo-nazi whack jobs or however we classify the group(s)

 

Liberal or even leftist peaceful protesters & ANTIFA, BLM or however we classify the radical fuck stick group(s)

 

both sides do have decent peaceful people that protest reasonably, but this weekend, those two groups of decent folks got over-run by the fuck-sticks and whack jobs and now people are lumping them all together when it fits their story line. That's wrong and bullshit and that's the problem.

 

This is still America where free speech does still protect even the low lifes of the world like Neo Nazi's and as hard as that may be to tolerate, it's what differentiates our country from the rest of the world. That right of free speach should not be squashed because at some point, something each of us supports will not be liked by someone and if we cave and begin to allow stifling of free speech, it's just a matter of time before it comes back to bite you and what you believe in.

[greg1647545532]

I kinda hate the "can you imagine if Obama" trope, but let's try this on for size.

 

Let's pretend, for the sake of a hypothetical, that Bernie Sanders won the DNC nomination.

 

Let's also pretend that, nomination in hand, the Blank Panthers, representives from Antifa (of which I don't think there are any, but bear with me), and other outspoken black radicalist preachers throw their support behind Bernie. These previously marginalized groups now have a voice in government that they didn't have before. Bernie, once elected, appoints BLM activists to key advisor positions, repeats Black Panther talking points in speeches, and otherwise seems to tacitly approve of the support of all of these disparate groups, who now walk around all the time in Bernie silhoutte shirts.

 

What would the right be doing during all of this? Probably freaking out, like, "What the fuck is going on with our country, radical leftists seem to be running the show!"

 

Let's say, furthermore, that a rally is held to protest some thing, and all of these formerly marginalized and disparate groups with violent histories are invited. Let's say there's a catchy name, like "Unite the Left." Let's say some of these groups show up with torches, guns, and clubs, and one of them drives a car through a crowd and kills someone.

 

Let's also say that some white supremisists show up in counter-protest and throw some punches.

 

Do you think, having just witnessed a horrid shitshow such as this, people would be demanding to know what Bernie Sanders was going to do about it? Do you think they'd want him to explain how he could allow these shitheads to organize and strengthen their influence?

 

Do you think if he waited 2 days, and he pointed out, perhaps accurately, that there were bad people on both sides, that conservatives would be pissed?

[TTQ B4U]

People tend to want to kill you for killing their people, not for giving them equal rights.

 

ISIS doesn't give a crap about innocents dying. they don't like our way of life and even many of the good-guy muslims don't agree with lots of things that are western ways and culture. Extremists don't need any more nor do they benefit from empowering them through hating them. Fuck them and their beliefs and my saying that or even Trump saying that isn't going to give them any more ground to claim their stance. Their stance sucks and is shit either way. It's an excuse the liberals here are giving ISIS because it fits their political stance and that's it.

 

But seriously, prove that Obama's tolerance of Islam enabled Islamic terrorism. actually, you know what, I'll make it even easier - find some Islamic Jihad group that interpreted Obama's statements about them as praise for their Jihad.

 

it's not about him providing praise or enabling them, it's about appearing weak and not enabling our troops to put a boot up their ass and speak their language. there is no such thing as a 'fair fight' in the middle east. These fucks don't give a crap about our morals nor do they fight by them. Same with North Korea. That pussy backed down once he realized or was told that the US does mean business and was about to light him up, despite the fact that millions of innocents could be lost. He's a dog as are the ISIS fighters and rabid dogs don't live by servant leadership they live by a dog eat dog world and pack mentality thus you have to establish that with them. anything less isn't something they fear.

[greg1647545532]

Let me put it another way.

 

It's not about the violence. The fact that there was violence and someone got killed is just the catalyst that made this 24 hour news.

 

 

This is about a group of racists, white nationalists, and MAGA hat wearing alt-right fucksticks who all had the gall to gather from great distances and march in unison. HOLY SHIT, right!? Yes, of course, they should be allowed to march, and the ACLU in fact fought for their right to protest where they wanted to and would be most effective. But being allowed to march is one thing, we should all be alarmed that there were that many people coming to march in the first place! And people hold Trump partly responsible for their chutzpah, so they demanded answers. And rather than recognize the big picture here, which is that racism seems to be going mainstream again, he focuses on the small stuff -- did they have permits (apparently they did, fwiw), who was throwing punches, statues as art, bad apples on both sides, yadda yadda.

[TTQ B4U]

there is a consequence in condemning both sides as equal and that is it continues to legitimize white supremacy and embolden white supremacists.

 

that's your opinion and your purposely trying to make that a reality when it's not. if you're on the far right and I call you a fucktard and I call the other guys on the far left one too, it doesn't make you less of one. both sides here have fucktards in their groups from this weekend. it's not about some moral equivalency given those on the left swinging clubs this weekend weren't just innocent moms and dads protesting, they were thugs and trash talkers with the same mindset and actions as the neo's on the right. Those swinging clubs on both sides were just as bad as one another. The morals or lack of them from the Neo's doesn't justify or raise up the morality of those swinging clubs at them.

Conservatism's lack to act when White Supremacy began to publicly associate itself with it has continued to feed their activity.

there's not much more the conservatives can do than condone the right as they've done many times this weekend and in the past. again, calling the left out on their behavior was justified just the same and it's those on the left swinging clubs

 

 

All is not lost though. Conservative America has a White Supremacy infestation problem. If you disagree you are just ignoring the problem, it is there and it doesn't appear to be going away.

same can be said for the other side and their groups of turds.

[TTQ B4U]

This is about a group of racists, white nationalists, and MAGA hat wearing alt-right fucksticks who all had the gall to gather from great distances and march in unison. HOLY SHIT, right!? Yes, of course, they should be allowed to march, and the ACLU in fact fought for their right to protest where they wanted to and would be most effective. But being allowed to march is one thing,

 

this time it's the Neo's but other times it is the other side doing the same shit. need we play the clip in Chicago of pigs in a blanket chants from groups of people from all over.... Holy Shit to that too.

we should all be alarmed that there were that many people coming to march in the first place! And people hold Trump partly responsible for their chutzpah, so they demanded answers.

 

and right back at you with holding Obama and many others responsible for the above that march against cops and others who have also killed people with their rage. Think back to the ambush of officers in Dallas.

[greg1647545532]

So do we agree that Trump fucked this up royally? That this was a disgusting display of his complete ineptitude at leadership? That we all now have reason to question his association with white nationalists and racists?

[Geeto67]

Agree. Both sides are to blame. No one is drawing a direct parallel of those on the left opposing the Neo-nazi stance.....

 

The president is. Anybody mirroring that rhetoric is being perceived to as well.

 

 

 

I think it's safe to say even the radical leftist fucks oppose them as do the sensible peaceful left leaning groups. However, it's the way they handled themselves that puts them on the same playing field.

 

much like the guy defending himself from a murder by killing the murderer is on the same playing field as the murder. I get it they are both murderers. :dumb:

 

IMO people are either confusing or not clarifying the difference between a moral-plane of where each side comes from and the reality of how each side is actually acting.

 

See above. But let's be clear - Neo Nazis and those opposing Neo Nazis are not on the same moral plane, regardless of tactic.

 

I see four parties here:

 

Conservative even right wing peaceful protesters & Neo-nazi whack jobs or however we classify the group(s)

 

ok, stop right there. Who are the conservative right wing peaceful protesters? Name that group? Remember this was a "Unite the Right" Rally, they organized it and they invited the groups. They invited hate groups. If you were there and you were conservative and you were not a white supremacist, you were either on the same side as all the other liberals or in the wrong place. If you were conservative and you showed up to the "unite the right" organized rally and were on the same side as the White Supremacists, you can't really say you oppose white supremacy. It was a white supremacist rally.

 

I can tell you who was there (identified in the media by flags and images):

Alt Right (which has been classified as a hate group for a while now)

Smaller Neo-Nazi Groups like Vanguard America

Traditional Workers Party

Neo-Confederacy

Anti-Communist Action

Identity Evropa

32 members of various Right Wing Independent Militia Groups organized by the Penn Light Foot Militia (they showed up in full camo uniforms, body armor, and open carrying AR15s). There were there as a "show of force" to "discourage violence".

 

so....who were the non WS conservative groups again? Give me a name of one formal organization who was there, conservative, and not associated with the "Unite the Right".

 

Now I want you to remember this. ALL these groups both claim alliance with general right wing conservatism and the Republican party.

 

 

Liberal or even leftist peaceful protesters & ANTIFA, BLM or however we classify the radical fuck stick group(s)

 

yup they were there.

 

both sides do have decent peaceful people that protest reasonably,

 

nope. In promoting it the unite the right attendees were encouraged to bring weapons and encouraged to resist by force. The majority showed up ready. I don't think you can make the statement that "both sides" had peaceful people when it is clear one side did not.

 

but this weekend, those two groups of decent folks got over-run by the fuck-sticks and whack jobs and now people are lumping them all together when it fits their story line. That's wrong and bullshit and that's the problem.

 

Yes the peacful people got run over by violence. Except the conservative peaceful people who oppose white supremacy because they weren't there.

 

This is still America where free speech does still protect even the low lifes of the world like Neo Nazi's and as hard as that may be to tolerate, it's what differentiates our country from the rest of the world.

 

Weren't you the one complaining that the government didn't interfere? :dumb:

 

 

That right of free speach should not be squashed because at some point, something each of us supports will not be liked by someone and if we cave and begin to allow stifling of free speech, it's just a matter of time before it comes back to bite you and what you believe in.

 

NOBODY'S RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH WAS SQUASHED. I am using all caps because I don't want you to miss it. The Government did not suppress anyone's speech. that's all the protection you get. Private Individuals can publicly disagree with you as a tactic to cancel our your speech and it is generally ok.

 

Why is free speech so difficult for you to understand? you are married to a lawyer. Just ask her to explain it to you. Tell her to use small words.

[Geeto67]

So do we agree that Trump fucked this up royally? That this was a disgusting display of his complete ineptitude at leadership? That we all now have reason to question his association with white nationalists and racists?

 

Tim does not agree with you:

 

I don't see him saying that. However, perhaps if people re-wordsmith their sentences to be separate that will help ease your pain on the points being made.

 

I don't think Brandon does either:

My god this is fucking stupid. This anti-white shit is just as fucking bad as this neo-nazi, white supremacy shit. It 100% goes both ways. The anti-white culture has been growing and growing over the years and if you can't see it, you're fucking blind.

[Geeto67]

there's not much more the conservatives can do than condone the right as they've done many times this weekend and in the past.

 

 

I've laid it out. Here is is again:

 

All is not lost though. Conservative America has a White Supremacy infestation problem. If you disagree you are just ignoring the problem, it is there and it doesn't appear to be going away. The first step is to acknowledge it. The second step is to identify the ways in which it continues to feed. The Third Step is to cut off it's food supply.

 

If you are trying to deflect or diminish the attack on conservatism by finger pointing at a much less significant problem on the left - you are feeding it. Stop

 

If you are supporting politicians that have ties or are advocating policies that have ties to the WS agenda, then stop supporting them. This includes any Politicians that enabled or support the Trump administration. Stop

 

The Republican party owes some responsibility to clean up this mess. Stop giving them money until they do. If they keep getting money and keep getting elected they are going to keep doing the same thing and some of that is enabling White Supremacy.

[Diamonds]

Someone make me an admin for 8 minutes... I'll ban Geeto

[Geeto67]

Someone make me an admin for 8 minutes... I'll ban Geeto

 

Here is John Kasich saying the same things on the Today show that I have said here

 

 

Why don't you ban him.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Not Brian

[Geeesammy]

Can we start a gofundme to ban geeto?

 

Collections would likely be high enough no one would need to pay for another track rental again

[Otis Nice]

Can we start a gofundme to ban geeto?

 

Collections would likely be high enough no one would need to pay for another track rental again

 

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Workaholics-Blake-I-like-that.gif

[TTQ B4U]

The president is. Anybody mirroring that rhetoric is being perceived to as well.

 

No, he's drawing a direct parallel between the extremists and their actions to the one another, not the peaceful left. Again, there are good-guys on both sides but there are also bad guys on either side. You're choosing to ignore the difference and clarity he's drawn up. Yes, more than just you are doing this. Pure political BS.

 

much like the guy defending himself from a murder by killing the murderer is on the same playing field as the murder. I get it they are both murderers.

 

:dumb:Murder isn't the same as justifiable homicide which is what the guy defending himself from a murderer is doing. No, they aren't both murderers.

 

let's be clear - Neo Nazis and those opposing Neo Nazis are not on the same moral plane, regardless of tactic.

 

The ones fighting the Neo's aren't on the same moral plane. As I've noted, it's not about a moral equivalency, it is indeed about their tactics. The ones on the left are just as big a fuck-tards as the Neo's by their very approach and harm they are inflicting to this country, the property and lives of others. To use your above example, it's simliar to the father who's child is molested then going on a vigilante hunt to murder the family of the guy who hurt his loved one. There's no place in America for Neo's nor is there a place in our society for the ANTIFA extremists and their actions either. Again, both are turds.

 

ok, stop right there. Who are the conservative right wing peaceful protesters? Name that group?

 

It doesn't matter if you put them in a group or not Kerry, if they weren't swinging clubs and were in-line with what our constitution allows in terms of behavior and free speech then you don't have to agree with them or their stance but in America, you don't have a right to squash their right to free speech or protest. Hold them accountable according to the laws, etc. but no different than the ISIS Dress Muslims that burn the flag and protest in our very own country, they have a right to be there.

 

Now I want you to remember this. ALL these groups both claim alliance with general right wing conservatism and the Republican party.

 

Irrelevant when the party publicly denounces the vitriole and beliefs of the extremists that are among them. The leftist turds marching and chanting they want dead cops are IMO their equivalent and they claim the left liberal party stance as their side of allegiance.

 

nope. In promoting it the unite the right attendees were encouraged to bring weapons and encouraged to resist by force.

 

sounds like many of the liberal protests and actions seen since Trump won the election. many of them have even had celebrities supporting them and today even a Mousourii Senator posting on Facebook that she hopes Trump gets assassinated. Is the Unite the Right equiv. on the left the "resist movement?" Kinda is...

 

The majority showed up ready.

 

Too bad the police didn't....Oh wait, maybe they did but were told to stand down? Hmmm...

 

:dumb:

Private Individuals can publicly disagree with you as a tactic to cancel our your speech and it is generally ok.

 

unless their tactic is to show up with clubs to go at it with one another and destroy property and hurt those around them. both sides did that and thus both sides are fuck tards.

[TTQ B4U]

I've laid it out. Here is is again:

 

All is not lost though. Conservative America has a White Supremacy infestation problem. If you disagree you are just ignoring the problem, it is there and it doesn't appear to be going away. The first step is to acknowledge it. The second step is to identify the ways in which it continues to feed. The Third Step is to cut off it's food supply.

 

and liberal America has an ANTIFA problem mixed with an dose of self imposed dose of irony in form of facism running wild among it. let's all copy the Euro-style "black bloc" tactics, go around rioting, committing vandalism and protesting without a permit as we block people through fear and violence from speaking on campuses everywhere...then we'll march down town and call for death to law enforcement and top it all off with Madonna spouting about blowing up the white house and failed comics holding a bloody Trump head.

 

As you noted, if you disagree you are just ignoring the problem or not watching CNN. Time to stop feeding that bullshit too. The irony on the left is laughable or scary really.

 

In the mean time another European country with open borders scores 3 more Jihadist attacks...

[TTQ B4U]

Here is John Kasich saying the same things on the Today show that I have said here.

 

The public banned him worse than ever can be done here given he lost his run for office about as badly David Hasselhoff when he tried Dancing with Stars. too bad, as I like some of his idea and have met him personally as one of my people worked on his campaign, but he's horrible at speaking as a politician in attempting to persuade others.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Honest question. Have white supremacists been an issue in this country up until this incident? You never hear anything about them and I've always thought they were a small group of morons bunkered in the hills of West Virginia. Now all of a sudden they're the majority of white people and close to taking over the world? I don't buy it.

[TTQ B4U]

Now all of a sudden they're the majority of white people and close to taking over the world?

 

^^ that fits the narrative of the anti-Trump crew so it's being played out as reality.

 

I agree with you and noted early on that shame goes to the media for their political twist on things has given this relatively small group of inbred fuck-tards the most press they've seen in decades. I don't think I've seen the driver of the car or the poor girl killed buried so deep ever. Like she was never killed and made completely irrelevant to fulfill a political stance of bullshit. Very sad and very much NOT representative of what we are as a country. Not surprising though.

[greg1647545532]

Honest question. Have white supremacists been an issue in this country up until this incident? You never hear anything about them and I've always thought they were a small group of morons bunkered in the hills of West Virginia. Now all of a sudden they're the majority of white people and close to taking over the world? I don't buy it.

 

They were less of a problem until recently , but they've been coming out of the woodwork. They had a big rally not too long ago, you may have heard of it. It was in Charlottesville I think, someone even got killed there. It was all over the news.

[10phone2]

Honest question. Have white supremacists been an issue in this country up until this incident? You never hear anything about them and I've always thought they were a small group of morons bunkered in the hills of West Virginia. Now all of a sudden they're the majority of white people and close to taking over the world? I don't buy it.

 

+1

 

I would safely say that in the last 10 years white supremacists violence is less than islamic terrorist killings and less than black on black murders in chicago. The elephant in the room question is, if we want to change the views of white supremacists, what are black communities displaying via there own media platforms or teaching their community via hip hop?