Legal guardianship questions

[mrs.cos]

I have a situation that Im not sure how to approach and have lots of questions to ask before i even consider how to handle any of this.

 

It's a bit of a drawn out story, so bear with me.

 

My aunt adopted my cousin when we were all about 3-4 years old. She was a troubled child most of her life due to sexual abuse (edit for clarification, she was sexually abused by foster familys, not my aunt) and my aunt just generally not being a good parent (none of the family expected how bad she would be prior to adoption)

 

My sister and my cousin and I were basically sisters most of our lives. We went everywhere together. I tried everything i could to be a good role model for her.. but I failed. Her poor mind and heart were just so broken from her early life.

 

fast forward to my mid 20's when my cousin passes away from alcohol and medication interaction, leaving behind a 3 year old (whom my aunt has basically had legal guardianship of since birth and who this all will be about) and twin daughters whom are adopted by a family in the church she occasionally attended when she would try to get sober.

 

When she passed away, everyone wanted Nathan and I to adopt the girls, but Nathan didn't want to fight the battle of custody with the dad because he was abusive and crazy (my cousins live in boyfriend and dad of all the kids).. The tragic irony of this being dad died of drugs and alcohol maybe a year later. Lots of regret and pain in my heart about the whole situation.

 

 

Fast forward another 10 years.. We have watched my aunt get worse as a parent to my cousin daughter, whom she is the legal guardian of. I dont want to go into details, just know its enough that has had me on the fence about calling CPS multiple times, but more afraid that we would lose the girl to the system because none of us are actually blood.

 

(i will henceforth call her my niece, it's just easier because it's weird calling her my second cousin)

 

My aunt tells us all the time about how shes always having outburst and is snotty, and other things but anytime she stays with us, this is the absolutely not the truth. She's a normal kid. She does everything we say, she's respectful (mostly) she does chores, she walks the dogs, she grumbles about brushing her teeth. She's a kid.

 

Things at her home are deteriorating; to the point that my dad has finally agreed its time for CPS to be called.

 

I have had her for two weeks now, long enough to know what exactly she is like on a normal day to day basis.

 

My aunt has asked Myself and Nathan if anything were to happen to her if we would take her in. We told her yes.

 

The thing is.. I think we should take her sooner. My aunt is 67. Her house is in shambles (like almost literally) It is not an environment that a child should be in.

 

So here are my questions.

 

1)Can legal custody be awarded willingly to another Legal guardian without much fuss?

2) As legal guardians, can the child be put on our insurance?

3) Can we Adopt, instead of guardianship?

 

Im so overwhelmed with how to handle this, and i know i need to talk to legal counsel about any of this before preceeding, but id like to iron out my thoughts before moving forward.

Edited July 19, 2017 by damreds

[Zx2guy19]

This sounds like a really messed up situation. Sorry to hear you guys are going through this.

 

I know the answer to the first 2, not the third.

 

When I was 17, my parents and I moved to Hilliard and my school district (SWCS) found out about it and tried to kick me out of Westland (lol) for my senior year due to being in the Hilliard Darby area. Long story short, my parents gave custody to my at-the-time girlfriend's parents (for approximately 6 months until I turned 18). This allowed me to graduate with all the kids I had grown up with.

 

So yes, legal custody can be awarded willingly. It was not difficult, but we did have to appear before a judge, etc.

 

As far as number 2 goes, yes, a legal guardian can be put on your insurance. As long as you have the documentation to show they are a dependent, you are fine. Since this is a qualifying life event, you will not have to wait until open enrollment either.

[mrs.cos]

This sounds like a really messed up situation. Sorry to hear you guys are going through this.

 

I know the answer to the first 2, not the third.

 

When I was 17, my parents and I moved to Hilliard and my school district (SWCS) found out about it and tried to kick me out of Westland (lol) for my senior year due to being in the Hilliard Darby area. Long story short, my parents gave custody to my at-the-time girlfriend's parents (for approximately 6 months until I turned 18). This allowed me to graduate with all the kids I had grown up with.

 

So yes, legal custody can be awarded willingly. It was not difficult, but we did have to appear before a judge, etc.

 

As far as number 2 goes, yes, a legal guardian can be put on your insurance. As long as you have the documentation to show they are a dependent, you are fine. Since this is a qualifying life event, you will not have to wait until open enrollment either.

 

 

thank you.

[Geeto67]

 

So here are my questions.

 

1)Can legal custody be awarded willingly to another Legal guardian without much fuss?

2) As legal guardians, can the child be put on our insurance?

3) Can we Adopt, instead of guardianship?

 

These are all questions that your legal counsel could easily answer, and really should be the one to answer.

 

 

 

I can give you some non-lawyer food for thought:

 

Legal Guardianship is a temporary status, Adoption is permanent. What that means is that Guardianship does not interfere with the benefits or inheritance rights of the child to the estate. In this case that would mean your cousins/sister's estate and any rights she has to the Aunt's estate. Adoption would mean she becomes your child and the previous rights mostly extinguish. Something tells me this isn't really a concern for you and is something that could easily be taken care of with a will.

 

How old a child are we talking here? Guardianship vs. adoption can make sense in different situations depending on how close to the age of emancipation or majority. If we are talking about a 15 year old kid, guardianship probably makes more sense since it is generally quicker and less costly. If we are talking about a 10 year old Adoption probably makes more sense because of it's permanence.

 

regarding your insurance, every policy is different and defines dependent different. As a general rule most health plans cover children you have legal guardianship of. Take a copy of your health insurance policy documents to the lawyer and have him/her confirm. The child is also eligible for Medicare and CHIP, so make sure your niece is enrolled in those programs and getting health insurance, even if she has insurance through your aunt (it provides secondary coverage for areas where the private doesn't cover).

 

As to whether guardian or adoption makes the most sense, that's kind of the thing you need to discuss with an attorney based on your individual circumstances. As I mentioned all sorts of rights attach to adoption that don't with guardianship, but most can be handled by alternative means.

 

anyway you go on this, I recommend you getting the 67 year old aunt on your side first. It's a much much much easier (and cheaper) process when everyone agrees to the proposed course of action. Trying to force things along may make it much harder and lead to an unsatisfactory situation.

[mrs.cos]

She is 13.

 

I don't see my aunt making this easy. She has already secluded them from the family. My dad is the closest to her and one of the few people she "let's in".

 

I wish there was an easy way to do this.

 

Somehow she has been removed from Medicare/aid because my aunt makes too much money from SS?

 

I don't fully understand how this has happened but there is definitly something not right going on here.

 

I think my aunt had a Gerber policy on the mom, but I have no idea if any of that is still in effect.

 

 

 

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[Geeto67]

Just to be clear, the child we are talking about is the biological daughter of your adopted (now deceased) cousin. The Aunt is who is caring for the child is the woman who adopted your cousin, right? As far as I know the adoption shouldn't have an effect on the child being considered a relative, but again this isn't my area. I would be very surprised if she is considered anything other than related to you for that reason.

 

 

She is 13.

 

13 is tough, that's 5 years before she reaches the age of majority. Either could work for you. I think the first step is to establish that the aunt has legal guardianship. You or Your attorney can get the court records without alerting the aunt to verify this. If she doesn't have guardianship, you may not have to involve her at all to get guardianship, and then things get really easy.

 

I don't see my aunt making this easy. She has already secluded them from the family. My dad is the closest to her and one of the few people she "let's in".

 

I wish there was an easy way to do this.

 

The easy way is getting her to allow guardianship and then moving forward from there. Your attorney (who should be a specialist in this area, not a general family practice attorney) will help you create a strategy based on your rights and the child's rights and the situation be it hostile or friendly. Till then, see if you can get her to stay at your house more often to get her acclimated, maybe even approach with the idea that temporary guardianship is necessary to get her into your school district if she is not doing well in school. You said you have had her for two weeks, well school starts soon maybe you can keep extending the stay and make that case to your aunt.

 

Child Protective Services doesn't exist to help you with custody disputes, calling them in at the wrong time might adversely affect what you are trying to do. However, they may be a necessary part of the process if you need to prove a bad environment as part of the guardianship process. Your Atty will discuss this with you.

 

Somehow she has been removed from Medicare/aid because my aunt makes too much money from SS?

 

that seems...unlikely...but I don't know the details. Coverage for the child exists regardless of the the grandparent's status. If she doesn't have any kind of health insurance, the child should still be eligible for Ohio SCHIP. First step is a call to their office:

http://medicaid.ohio.gov/FOROHIOANS/Programs/ChildrenFamiliesandWomen.aspx

and get more info.

 

Do you know when the child last had a medical checkup? if it hasn't been for a while maybe that is a way to open the door with the aunt - talk to her about the required medical checkup for school and ask for the insurance info. If there isn't any, then you can get her enrolled and get her an annual physical. Lack of access to medical care is another strike against the aunt retaining guardianship, so if the kid has no medical records - that's not good. Getting her under your guardianship for medical care might be another talking point with your aunt in making the case that she should go along with this.

 

I don't fully understand how this has happened but there is definitely something not right going on here.

 

I agree, but there has to be something more than just you don't agree with a parenting style. Abuse, unfit, living conditions, economic hardship, poorly/absent school, access to medical care, etc...are all things to consider and to put together a case for guardianship.

 

I think my aunt had a Gerber policy on the mom, but I have no idea if any of that is still in effect.

 

As far as I know Gerber Policies are life insurance policies and are whole life policies based on investment. I won't get into what I think of their substance (Hint: there aren't enough swear words) but they are only good if the premiums are continued to be paid. They should have paid out upon the death of your cousin if they were up to date (and don't expect a huge windfall here - there are many studies that show you pay more in Gerber premiums than you get back if the policy pays out).

 

There is something else your attorney will talk to you about and that is an attorney representative for the child. this comes up more often in hostile child custody cases, and honestly I don't know enough.

 

I know I don't have to say this, but remember be sensitive about this with your aunt. This is the last living traces of her daughter and she is going to be sensitive about that. No matter how much it makes you angry that she isn't a good parent, or that she is doing things wrong, a gentile touch is the most important thing here. If you come in with accusations she will only galvanize her will against you. you need to make her see the positives - that you can ease the financial burden, the kid will get better medical care, better education, and your aunt can finally step into the grandparent role of doing fun things and making memories and not having to be the responsible parent the second time around. you will take all the chores and the stuff she hates and she can do only the stuff she wants to do. It will remove everyone's pressure and stress. Focus on the advantages for everyone - don't kick in the door guns a blazing.

[El Karacho1647545492]

Let me know if you need a referral for an attorney. I work with a lot of them, including family law.

[mrs.cos]

I think I will be looking for a family lawyer to talk to for this.

 

Question- if my aunt is willingly giving us guardianship- will that make things go easier?

 

 

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[10phone2]

the boogey man in the room is what if aunt wants to have child full time in the future or anyone else.... how is that spelled out?

[mrs.cos]

Just to be clear, the child we are talking about is the biological daughter of your adopted (now deceased) cousin. The Aunt is who is caring for the child is the woman who adopted your cousin, right? As far as I know the adoption shouldn't have an effect on the child being considered a relative, but again this isn't my area. I would be very surprised if she is considered anything other than related to you for that reason.

 

That's reassuring

 

 

13 is tough, that's 5 years before she reaches the age of majority. Either could work for you. I think the first step is to establish that the aunt has legal guardianship. You or Your attorney can get the court records without alerting the aunt to verify this. If she doesn't have guardianship, you may not have to involve her at all to get guardianship, and then things get really easy.

I'm 99% certain she is legal guardian.

 

 

The easy way is getting her to allow guardianship and then moving forward from there. Your attorney (who should be a specialist in this area, not a general family practice attorney) will help you create a strategy based on your rights and the child's rights and the situation be it hostile or friendly. Till then, see if you can get her to stay at your house more often to get her acclimated, maybe even approach with the idea that temporary guardianship is necessary to get her into your school district if she is not doing well in school. You said you have had her for two weeks, well school starts soon maybe you can keep extending the stay and make that case to your aunt.

The two weeks was wonderful but I had to take her back.

 

Child Protective Services doesn't exist to help you with custody disputes, calling them in at the wrong time might adversely affect what you are trying to do. However, they may be a necessary part of the process if you need to prove a bad environment as part of the guardianship process. Your Atty will discuss this with you.

 

 

So involve an attorney before I call CPS? I don't want to rip them apart. I would love if I could logically speak to my aunt about all this but she is incapable of that kind of conversation. I would be using CPS as a means to prove to HER that she needs help, something no one else in our family (namely my dad) has not been able to convince her of.

 

that seems...unlikely...but I don't know the details. Coverage for the child exists regardless of the the grandparent's status. If she doesn't have any kind of health insurance, the child should still be eligible for Ohio SCHIP. First step is a call to their office:

http://medicaid.ohio.gov/FOROHIOANS/Programs/ChildrenFamiliesandWomen.aspx

and get more info.

 

Do you know when the child last had a medical checkup? if it hasn't been for a while maybe that is a way to open the door with the aunt - talk to her about the required medical checkup for school and ask for the insurance info. If there isn't any, then you can get her enrolled and get her an annual physical. Lack of access to medical care is another strike against the aunt retaining guardianship, so if the kid has no medical records - that's not good. Getting her under your guardianship for medical care might be another talking point with your aunt in making the case that she should go along with this.

Again she is incapable of talking about this with anyone and only sees these conversations as attacks.

 

 

 

I agree, but there has to be something more than just you don't agree with a parenting style. Abuse, unfit, living conditions, economic hardship, poorly/absent school, access to medical care, etc...are all things to consider and to put together a case for guardianship.

 

It is definitely unfit living situations. Anything else that the child has discussed has been mostly normal teenage stuff.

 

 

 

As far as I know Gerber Policies are life insurance policies and are whole life policies based on investment. I won't get into what I think of their substance (Hint: there aren't enough swear words) but they are only good if the premiums are continued to be paid. They should have paid out upon the death of your cousin if they were up to date (and don't expect a huge windfall here - there are many studies that show you pay more in Gerber premiums than you get back if the policy pays out).

 

There is something else your attorney will talk to you about and that is an attorney representative for the child. this comes up more often in hostile child custody cases, and honestly I don't know enough.

 

I know I don't have to say this, but remember be sensitive about this with your aunt. This is the last living traces of her daughter and she is going to be sensitive about that. No matter how much it makes you angry that she isn't a good parent, or that she is doing things wrong, a gentile touch is the most important thing here. If you come in with accusations she will only galvanize her will against you. you need to make her see the positives - that you can ease the financial burden, the kid will get better medical care, better education, and your aunt can finally step into the grandparent role of doing fun things and making memories and not having to be the responsible parent the second time around. you will take all the chores and the stuff she hates and she can do only the stuff she wants to do. It will remove everyone's pressure and stress. Focus on the advantages for everyone - don't kick in the door guns a blazing.

 

 

 

Indont know how I missed this post. So much to respond to...

 

I'll start by saying, I love this woman.

I do. She has just let things get out of her control.

 

I don't want to hurt her but it's going to happen - whether she comes to live with me or not.

 

 

 

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[10phone2]

Have you talked to the Aunt to see how on-board she is with the child living with you or transferring guardianship? Given what I went through with my oldest daughter, just having the conversation opened the door to a mutually beneficial solution.

[Green Bastard]

Something to think about, although idk if it applies to guardianship or not so it wouldn't hurt to ask, is power of attorny (sorry for the poor spelling) for medical purposes. When we had my son before the adoption was finalized (the courts had him legally placed with us) we had to have it in order to make decisions for his medical care. He was also not able to be added to my insurance until the adoption was finalized, it could be because he did not have a social security number until he was officially ours (if birthmom would have gotten it done, we would still have had to), but still something to look into.

[mrs.cos]

the boogey man in the room is what if aunt wants to have child full time in the future or anyone else.... how is that spelled out?

I have no issue with my aunt wanting to do things with her and hell i would even encourage frequent visits. She has had her since she was born basiclly.

Have you talked to the Aunt to see how on-board she is with the child living with you or transferring guardianship? Given what I went through with my oldest daughter, just having the conversation opened the door to a mutually beneficial solution.

This possibility has been mentioned to her, and she knows im open to it. She has asked if I would be her guardian if anything happened to her, but AFAIK she never filed that paperwork. She is a bitter angry sad woman. She is a ridiculously smart woman (serious, super IQ) who is dumber than a box of rocks socially.

 

Something to think about, although idk if it applies to guardianship or not so it wouldn't hurt to ask, is power of attorny (sorry for the poor spelling) for medical purposes. When we had my son before the adoption was finalized (the courts had him legally placed with us) we had to have it in order to make decisions for his medical care. He was also not able to be added to my insurance until the adoption was finalized, it could be because he did not have a social security number until he was officially ours (if birthmom would have gotten it done, we would still have had to), but still something to look into.

 

I will not bring her to my home without all the proper paperwork in place, as far as her care. That is the whole reason I feel I should be moving forward with the concerns I have.

[BloodRed]

I think I will be looking for a family lawyer to talk to for this.

 

When you are ready to talk to a family lawyer, call these guys:

 

http://barrjoneslegal.com/

 

I am good friends with Andrew Jones. We have used him and many friends, family and even a few from here have used them after my suggestion. Good luck to you. It is never easy dealing with issues like this when it is family.

[Green Bastard]

When you are ready to talk to a family lawyer, call these guys:

 

http://barrjoneslegal.com/

 

I am good friends with Andrew Jones. We have used him and many friends, family and even a few from here have used them after my suggestion. Good luck to you. It is never easy dealing with issues like this when it is family.

 

I am one of the people that have used his services. Excellent guy to work with.

[mrs.cos]

So in a completely unexpected turn of events - my aunt wants to talk to me tomorrow (supposedly) about me taking her to live with us.. unprompted from me- but prompted from the neice.

 

I have no idea what to expext tomorrow when I see her

 

 

 

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[10phone2]

glad its working out hopefully for you and your able to openly communicate.

[mrs.cos]

I am doing what due diligence I can to be prepared but am expecting some sort of passive aggressive move on her part

 

 

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[mrs.cos]

Today went so well.. I am still in shock.

 

However the only hangup is she doesn't want to give up custody.

 

Can a legal guardian grant guardianship to someone else?

 

She wants her to come live with us, she wants her ina better school system and she admitted today she just isn't enough anymore and says we are good role models for her in life.

 

It was a moderately emotional day but very positive.

 

I just don't know how to handle the schooling situation. From what I have read, I need custody to get her into Hilliard schools

 

 

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[STEVE-O]

Today went so well.. I am still in shock.

 

However the only hangup is she doesn't want to give up custody.

 

Can a legal guardian grant guardianship to someone else?

 

She wants her to come live with us, she wants her ina better school system and she admitted today she just isn't enough anymore and says we are good role models for her in life.

 

It was a moderately emotional day but very positive.

 

I just don't know how to handle the schooling situation. From what I have read, I need custody to get her into Hilliard schools

 

 

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You need residential custody to be able to enroll her in school. Going through it with my son right now to change his schools

[mrs.cos]

You need residential custody to be able to enroll her in school. Going through it with my son right now to change his schools

 

 

 

Does residential custody mean she is living with us or does it mean legal custody?

 

 

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[Zx2guy19]

Is she receiving some sort of financial aid for her? That may be the reasoning she doesn't want to give up legal custody.

[mrs.cos]

Is she receiving some sort of financial aid for her? That may be the reasoning she doesn't want to give up legal custody.

 

She receives benefits for the girl, that she says will go into a college fund for her.

 

I do think that this may be part of it.

[coltboostin]

She receives benefits for the girl, that she says will go into a college fund for her.

 

I do think that this may be part of it.

 

 

If that the truth, she can give you access to it to make those deposits or even better they should be directly deposited into said account.

 

Im sorry, but that smells like BS to me- not sure if you would want to jump on that grenade though.

[mrs.cos]

If that the truth, she can give you access to it to make those deposits or even better they should be directly deposited into said account.

 

Im sorry, but that smells like BS to me- not sure if you would want to jump on that grenade though.

 

Wont lie, im sure she has good intentions.. but i dont think it will happen that way.. but i have been wrong about all of this up to this point reguarding my aunts behavior.