New Car Itch

[TTQ B4U]

I've been eying up Tesla since they were announced and while I've not always seen them of value due to the pricing of the S Series and the ranges available, with the move towards the new Model 3, that becomes a game changer for me.

 

I've said it for a while that my current Daily may very well be my last gasoline vehicle and I'm at a cross-roads of selling it for for either a new Model 3 or if I decide against that, I may just pull the trigger with Jordan on a new Daily for me and one for the wife.

 

Has anyone here given a serious look at the Model 3 or put their deposit on one? I'm on the edge....

 

Here's a pretty detailed look into the vehicle that I've enjoyed.

 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/30/tesla-model-3-in-depth-video-review-answers-all-your-questions/

 

 

 

Thanks and shout out to Scott here for answering some questions on them in general too. I've not yet ruled out a used Dual Motor S but the 3 is the size I'm looking for and I am a sucker for being an early adopter of new things.

Edited November 18, 2017 by TTQ B4U

[Trouble Maker]

Has anyone done a good back-to-back actual driving comparison of the Bolt VS the Model 3? Personally, I'd be really surprised if the Bolt is not the better car for the money. Plus, you can actually go buy the Bolt, right now... while the federal tax rebate still exist too. If you are just thinking about the Model 3 now, how long do you think it will realistically be until you can actually get one? In between their production 'delays' and the number of deposits, I'm guessing a few years?

 

If you really want a Tesla, I think you are on the right track with buying a used Model S instead. Prices seem great for what you get, coming from someone who is a fan but I don't think they are worth what they are charging new, compared to other similarly priced cars (this really, realy depends on how you value it being an electric car).

 

Have you thought about solar on your house? I think this is part of the key to making an electric car really make sense from a holistic standpoint.

[TTQ B4U]

Has anyone done a good back-to-back actual driving comparison of the Bolt VS the Model 3? Personally, I'd be really surprised if the Bolt is not the better car for the money.

 

Call me a snob but I wouldn't own a Bolt. Value is one thing but honestly, I'm not buying the car for economy reasons. The main struggle if I had one is the interior and luxery of even the S Series struggles to keep up with what I have or am looking at buying but I'm willing to uncheck that box for the other offerings it does have.

 

Plus, you can actually go buy the Bolt, right now... while the federal tax rebate still exist too. If you are just thinking about the Model 3 now, how long do you think it will realistically be until you can actually get one? In between their production 'delays' and the number of deposits, I'm guessing a few years?

 

Based on what Scott/Sledhead is sharing and what Tesla is showing I'm 12 months out on a fully loaded AWD Long Range Model 3. I can wait that long. Even if I sell my S4 next week, I'll buy my sons future car and live with it until I get my new car.

 

If you really want a Tesla, I think you are on the right track with buying a used Model S instead. Prices seem great for what you get, coming from someone who is a fan but I don't think they are worth what they are charging new, compared to other similarly priced cars (this really, realy depends on how you value it being an electric car).

 

Agree on the costs of the new ones. I'm even struggling with a P85D cost of say $80k as for that money I will likely go another route - two still very nice cars for the family vs one Model S.

 

Have you thought about solar on your house? I think this is part of the key to making an electric car really make sense from a holistic standpoint.

 

Yes but not seriously yet. I'll do it but the ROI is a key factor and we may put the cost of it elsewhere first. On my "list" of interests though for sure.

[carl1647545492]

As cool as that screen is I wonder how tempting it would be to be fiddling with it when your driving?

[iwashmycar]

As cool as that screen is I wonder how tempting it would be to be fiddling with it when your driving?

 

About as tempting as a phone. Once you KNOW the layout of it it will be pretty intuitive. Like if I want to pick up the phone and make a call...I know where to press without looking most times.

[Trouble Maker]

Yes but not seriously yet. I'll do it but the ROI is a key factor and we may put the cost of it elsewhere first. On my "list" of interests though for sure.

 

Have you read, looked into or done the calculations? Just curious about what numbers other are seeing, as a sanity check. Personally, I'm getting 5-10 years, depending on how you spin the numbers, if I buy it and do it myself. So let's say realistically about 7.5 years. Not bad for 'free' electricity for 25+ years. This would be a easy project, relative to other things I've done in the house, so I'll do it myself. The only issue at this point is space on the south facing side of my roof, trees and 24" on center rafters might be a problem; dat old farm house lyfe. Another house near us had the same issue and had to reinforce to install panels, but they were able to do it over the garage area so they had room to work. Anyway, for a few reason, I think we will need to put it on the new garage once we build that in a few years; otherwise we would have already done it.

[TTQ B4U]

Have you read, looked into or done the calculations? Just curious about what numbers other are seeing, as a sanity check. Personally, I'm getting 5-10 years, depending on how you spin the numbers, if I buy it and do it myself. So let's say realistically about 7.5 years. Not bad for 'free' electricity for 25+ years. This would be a easy project, relative to other things I've done in the house, so I'll do it myself. The only issue at this point is space on the south facing side of my roof, trees and 24" on center rafters might be a problem; dat old farm house lyfe. Another house near us had the same issue and had to reinforce to install panels, but they were able to do it over the garage area so they had room to work. Anyway, for a few reason, I think we will need to put it on the new garage once we build that in a few years; otherwise we would have already done it.

 

Have not. Again, interested for sure, but want to nail down the car thing for now.

 

Vehicle wise, I can go a number of directions:

 

Tesla Model 3 fully packaged, AWD/Long Range, etc. or even a Use P85D

 

If I buy 2 vs one, I'm looking at the Edge Sport with the 2.7l TT. I might buy this soon and drive it for a few months then give it to the wife and I'll go back to a sedan. Perhaps a Loaded Up Honda Accord 2.0t as the early reviews are strong and it's about the nicest "domestic"/Daily Sled without spending much coin. Gotta wait to drive a 2.0T with the new 10spd auto though, but it's a strong candidate sedan wise.

[Miller]

Have you read, looked into or done the calculations? Just curious about what numbers other are seeing, as a sanity check. Personally, I'm getting 5-10 years, depending on how you spin the numbers, if I buy it and do it myself. So let's say realistically about 7.5 years. Not bad for 'free' electricity for 25+ years. This would be a easy project, relative to other things I've done in the house, so I'll do it myself. The only issue at this point is space on the south facing side of my roof, trees and 24" on center rafters might be a problem; dat old farm house lyfe. Another house near us had the same issue and had to reinforce to install panels, but they were able to do it over the garage area so they had room to work. Anyway, for a few reason, I think we will need to put it on the new garage once we build that in a few years; otherwise we would have already done it.

 

He's basically telling you he wants a luxury car not a Chevy econo-lectrilux.

[El Karacho1647545492]

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/10/teslas-struggle-with-model-3-might-be.html

 

Apologies for the carscoops link, WSJ original article is paywalled.

 

TL;DR the article alleges that Tesla is struggling with the production process of welding steel and aluminum. This is table stakes for an established manufacturer, but for a "startup" this is all new.

 

Add to that their labor disputes (whether Tesla or UAW's fault, it still exists) and the frequent quality issues on early models S and X, and you have a recipe for disaster. You can fix software bugs and quirks with OTA upgrades. You can't just fix or replace frame welds that are literally coming apart at the seams via the internet.

[Trouble Maker]

Perhaps a Loaded Up Honda Accord 2.0t as the early reviews are strong and it's about the nicest "domestic"/Daily Sled without spending much coin. Gotta wait to drive a 2.0T with the new 10spd auto though, but it's a strong candidate sedan wise.

 

I'm really interested in driving the new Accord too. If 'they' did nearly as good of a job on it relative to the Civic I've been driving for 8 months now, It's going to be a really nice car. I'm planning to get the new Si for my next lease car early next year. The Accord would be tempting if the offered the manual with a little higher trim than the Sport, though it is a bigger car than I normally like to drive.

[zeitgeist57]

My FiL has an 85D and has a $1k deposit on a Model 3, due to come up for his turn to buy one around June/July 2018. Based on my recommendation, my BiL just bought a new 90D.

 

I've said multiple times how I love Tesla. I do want to get a used Model S. HOWEVER...I have to say that there are a few things that have popped up on my FiL's Mod S from a quality standpoint after 13k miles that gives me pause to wait and see how the Model 3's come out from a QC standpoint.

 

Before I get lambasted by Scott et al ....I'm still a fan, but unless you want to drop $100k+ on a new-new, it doesn't hurt to keep an eye on the used market for Model S's.

[TTQ B4U]

Before I get lambasted by Scott et al ....I'm still a fan, but unless you want to drop $100k+ on a new-new, it doesn't hurt to keep an eye on the used market for Model S's.

 

He fully supports and recommended I keep my eyes open for a used 85D or upwards unit. I'm with you in the cost of a new ones is just a bit too high to re-coupe the value from. Too rich for my blood anyway. I can see maybe $60-80k but the top end is still a lot for what just gets you from point a to point b.

[Orion]

Have you read, looked into or done the calculations? Just curious about what numbers other are seeing, as a sanity check. Personally, I'm getting 5-10 years, depending on how you spin the numbers, if I buy it and do it myself. So let's say realistically about 7.5 years. Not bad for 'free' electricity for 25+ years. This would be a easy project, relative to other things I've done in the house, so I'll do it myself. The only issue at this point is space on the south facing side of my roof, trees and 24" on center rafters might be a problem; dat old farm house lyfe. Another house near us had the same issue and had to reinforce to install panels, but they were able to do it over the garage area so they had room to work. Anyway, for a few reason, I think we will need to put it on the new garage once we build that in a few years; otherwise we would have already done it.

 

 

Not to threadjack, but Jesse, did you just say that you think the return on your investment into a solar home would be 7-ish years? Bruh, I'd love to see your math on that. Everything I have been involved in is like 20+ years.

[RyM3rC]

Not to threadjack, but Jesse, did you just say that you think the return on your investment into a solar home would be 7-ish years? Bruh, I'd love to see your math on that. Everything I have been involved in is like 20+ years.

 

Yeah the very best I was able to figure was 15ish, and that was back when we had the Bush-era tax credits.

 

Thanks obama

[zeitgeist57]

Not to threadjack, but Jesse, did you just say that you think the return on your investment into a solar home would be 7-ish years? Bruh, I'd love to see your math on that. Everything I have been involved in is like 20+ years.

 

Depends on the solar panel system, DJ...maybe Jesse is looking at a roof-mount panel system?

 

Now....I did SolarCity's calculator: $91k for a SolarRoof!!!! That's going to be more than 7.5 years to pay that off.

[Murse]

I canceled my Model 3 reservation and just picked up a used Model S 85 rwd. Tired of waiting and wanted the Model S from the beginning anyway. Let me know if you want take it for a spin.

[Trouble Maker]

Let's say we use about 700kwhr per month, so 8,400kwhr per year.

We get maybe 3 sun hours per day here.

You are allowed to size your system to 80~90% of your yearly usage.

So, 0.9*8,400/365/3=6.9Kw array needed

An about 7Kw system is about $11k on https://www.wholesalesolar.com/grid-tie-packages

You get a 30% tax credit right now, so actual cost is $7.7k

Assuming your total energy cost is 12cents/kwhr all said and done, our bill for 8,400kwhr for the year is a cool $1k

$7.7k/$1k=7.7 years

 

I'm assuming 0 out of pocket cost per year, despite only covering 90% of electricity. You can also install another meter to sell carbon credits. From 1 person I talked to, this about covers the cost of the 10% of energy your system doesn't make that you use.

 

And, yes, I need to shop for electricity on apples to apples. :lolguy:

 

Just quick paper napkin calculations. I've done spreadsheets to add in inflation, increased value to the house, etc. Like I mentioned earlier, if you spin the numbers one way or another, you get to 5-10 years.

 

If you have someone install, the cost seem to about double, so payoff time doubles; 14 years. It would be at least as easy as any other large electrical project I've done on my house; I'd just do it myself. But, I get why most people would have someone install them. If you are getting the electrons for cheaper, the time would be longer, so 20 years is easy to see how that could be feasible. Still, then you have (at least) 5 years of free electricity. Most panels are 'rated' at 25 years, that means they are at 80% of original output; there's still life left in them. The value of your house also goes up in the mean time.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Trouble Maker

[Orion]

Does that cost factor in a battery/storage system?

[Trouble Maker]

Does that cost factor in a battery/storage system?

 

You really want to be grid-tie only. Batteries are a waste of money in Ohio right now, they would cost your more than you 'save'. The only people talking about batteries are preppers and/or people who need to go to The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff (math) Good Too. The short story is, they cost too much for the benefit at the current energy rates/cost. It will be a different story in the future as on demand cost differentials increase (or in the case of Ohio, start to exist at all), and the battery cost decrease.

 

They are also way too expensive of a solution for a backup. I put a 5kw gas generator manual switch-over backup in my house for <$1k. For the cost of a Telsa Powewall, you could probably get a pro installed connected to your gas line auto switch-over 20kw+ generator solution. Want to know how many times power has went out in our house before I put it in? Zero. How about after? Also a big fat 0. It will be nice when we finally do use it when our power goes out for a week once in a 10 year span.

[Trouble Maker]

I put a 5kw gas generator manual switch-over backup in my house...

 

Apparently my memory is getting poor as a result of 'old age' or something... it's actually a 7kw generator.

 

Want to know how many times power has went out in our house before I put it in? Zero. How about after? Also a big fat 0. It will be nice when we finally do use it when our power goes out for a week once in a 10 year span.

 

So, I guess the Fates are cruel and appreciate irony. Power went out last night during the high wind, it's still out now. Generator is not able to be hooked up, I had to remove the wire/box on the outside for kitchen construction and hadn't reconnected it yet. We would have been fine if I hadn't gotten cocky. :lolguy:

[SpaceGhost]

He's basically telling you he wants a luxury car not a Chevy econo-lectrilux.

 

A model 3 interior is basic as basic can be, the Model S is basic besides a giant iPad in the center. I refuse to call anything Tesla "luxury". Basically the Price is the only thing Luxury in a Tesla IMO.

[SpaceGhost]

Anyone waiting for their Model 3 is gonna wait a long time, they forcasted 1500 last quarter, built like 222 or so.... For the most part these cars are being hand built right now. Orders are being pushed back, and Elon blaming sending equipment to PR for hurricane help is kinda funny IMO.

 

If the government incentives dry up, Tesla will not be a car manufacturer, only a battery maker for the rest of the Automotive industry.

 

Read an article that said I think Denmark ended it's government incentives for electric cars, and last year was like 1700 Tesla cars sold to this year less than 200.

 

That being said, I have friends with orders in on Tesla Model 3s and they don't really care how long it takes as they are saving and the longer it takes the smaller the monthly payment when theirs arrive.

[TTQ B4U]

A model 3 interior is basic as basic can be, the Model S is basic besides a giant iPad in the center. I refuse to call anything Tesla "luxury". Basically the Price is the only thing Luxury in a Tesla IMO.

 

I agree. It's certainly no Audi interior. Even the S Series, while decent is far from what I'm used to. Willing to change though as I've yet to really find something that checks "every" box I'm looking for. That said, my S4 come very very close. I may even pull a wild card and simply keep it.

 

That being said, I have friends with orders in on Tesla Model 3s and they don't really care how long it takes as they are saving and the longer it takes the smaller the monthly payment when theirs arrive.

 

That's kinda where I'm at. I have a couple years left on the Audi payment wise, but I have far more equity than needed to keep the payment on the new car lower than where I'm at now even.

 

Off to go drive a couple other crazy ideas that I'm considering....

[coltboostin]

Since someone mentioned the Bolt.

 

How about a Bolt vs Volt back to back? The Volt looks MUCH better externally. May try to rent one in Vegas next week

[unfunnyryan]

I'm really interested in driving the new Accord too. If 'they' did nearly as good of a job on it relative to the Civic I've been driving for 8 months now, It's going to be a really nice car. I'm planning to get the new Si for my next lease car early next year. The Accord would be tempting if the offered the manual with a little higher trim than the Sport, though it is a bigger car than I normally like to drive.

 

I'm considering one as a fresh new daily to go along with a cheap toy. The new accord is going to absolutely cannibalize sales from Acura. It is an incredible value, and (not exact but close!) civic type r drivetrain!

 

(kia stinger used for cheap soon pls thnx)