Do you believe...

[99StockGT]

Only here in the wonderful United States of Distraction would something like this essentially not even make it in the news cycle. For those who haven't seen the NYT Articles ...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/unidentified-flying-object-navy.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2017/12/16/technology/16reuters-usa-pentagon-ufos.html

 

Looks like about as close to an official nod as possible, so, do you believe? The truth.. is out there!

[wagner]

The mainstream media has zero credibility these days, so don't expect certain stories to see much of a push.

[Geeto67]

Saw that yesterday.

 

UFO's absolutely exist - anything in the sky you can't identify is a UFO. Aliens? that's a different conversation and it is kind of a shame that when people hear UFO they automatically think Aliens.

 

All that has been recognized is that there is a government organization that studies UFO's (in the traditional sense of an unidentified flying object) observed by service members. It does not remotely count as an official nod to the existence of extraterrestrial crafts, beings, or anything else along those lines. This has happened before - Project Blue Book was recognized in the past.

 

Robert Bigelow, who makes most of the "aliens" comments in the story is kind of a controversial figure. He's a billionaire and an aerospace pioneer, but also kind of a crackpot who has been on Coast to Coast spouting some out there theories. On one hand his money has funded debunking efforts, but on the other he has some really wild and unfounded opinions. I should also point out that despite owning an aerospace company he isn't a scientist, just a business man who made a lot of money in real estate.

[99StockGT]

It made it onto a 2 minute segment on CNN, currently 3/4th of the way down the front page. A few local news channels have run versions of this as a "puff piece" with very little seriousness. I don't blame this all on the media, a huge portion of the blame needs to sit squarely on the American people who no longer pay any attention to anything unless it's in the Facebook news feed or some half naked girl mentions it on Instagram.

 

How we have reprogrammed ourselves to absorb facts and information is pitiful it has also HIGHLY damaged our ability to have intelligent civil conversations with each other on a wide range of topics.

[Geeto67]

The mainstream media has zero credibility these days,

 

Bullshit

 

It made it onto a 2 minute segment on CNN, currently 3/4th of the way down the front page. A few local news channels have run versions of this as a "puff piece" with very little seriousness. I don't blame this all on the media, a huge portion of the blame needs to sit squarely on the American people who no longer pay any attention to anything unless it's in the Facebook news feed or some half naked girl mentions it on Instagram.

 

How we have reprogrammed ourselves to absorb facts and information is pitiful it has also HIGHLY damaged our ability to have intelligent civil conversations with each other on a wide range of topics.

 

 

You are getting off topic. Where do you stand Austin?

 

Personally I want to believe, but I am highly skeptical. I've spent most of my life around aviation which means I have spent more time watching the skies than the ground and as a result I have seen some weird shit and some I couldn't explain. But I have never seen anything I would describe as "Aliens".

 

Does life exist somewhere else out there? Odds are in favor that it does. The thing that it turns on is the physical barriers that exist in travel between the stars. Maybe we aren't thinking about it the right way and time is more of a factor then we realize. I dunno...thoughts?

[99StockGT]

I could care less what Robert Bigelow says, he was the tool and contractor for some of this investigation. The person I DO put stock in is the now retired senior member of military intelligence who ran this project. I put stock in the professional aviators who have reported these sorts of objects since the dawn of aviation.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/luis-elizondo-ufo-pentagon/index.html

[Geeto67]

I could care less what Robert Bigelow says, he was the tool and contractor for some of this investigation. The person I DO put stock in is the now retired senior member of military intelligence who ran this project. I put stock in the professional aviators who have reported these sorts of objects since the dawn of aviation.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/luis-elizondo-ufo-pentagon/index.html

 

which again isn't conclusive proof of "Aliens", just that there is something they can't identify in the sky. There is just too much speculation and not enough "proof".

 

Let's look at it from another perspective: Time Travel. There is a theory out there that says time travel may be possible but has a limit to how far back we can go and we just haven't entered into the period where people can travel back to. Well, what if we have just started to enter that limit in the last 100 years? it could explain some of this phenomenon and still not involve aliens. One of the more frustrating things about pop culture time travel is that it forgets time and space are linked. The earth moves and is constantly moving so if you travel by fixed point portal, you may not be in the same place when you exit - you could be in the depths of space, or 10,000 feet over the ocean. It's nice to think about marty and doc hitting 88mph in the delorean and traveling 30 years back and still being in hill valley but in reality they could be anywhere from china, to the moon, to the depths of space. because of this positioning it could be that there are only pockets when people could travel. I mean there's a lot in this realm to unpack and none of it involves aliens.

 

and let's not get into interdemensional theories.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Geeto67

[wagner]

It made it onto a 2 minute segment on CNN, currently 3/4th of the way down the front page. A few local news channels have run versions of this as a "puff piece" with very little seriousness. I don't blame this all on the media, a huge portion of the blame needs to sit squarely on the American people who no longer pay any attention to anything unless it's in the Facebook news feed or some half naked girl mentions it on Instagram.

 

How we have reprogrammed ourselves to absorb facts and information is pitiful it has also HIGHLY damaged our ability to have intelligent civil conversations with each other on a wide range of topics.

 

People can't use logic or figure things out on their own. They just want "facts" fed to them and don't want to think.

 

I have to spend way more time on social media then I really like to for work and it blows me away what people think is real because they read it on the internet, or some talking head said it.

 

Hell, some of the stuff in the performance industry I see people spouting off to get attention hurts to read.

 

I can't wait for when the real and solid proof of alien life shows up. People are going to freak out that their belief system MIGHT be a bit off

[99StockGT]

People are going to freak out that their belief system MIGHT be a bit off

 

THIS is realistically one of the biggest reasons I think knowledge will be/has been held back, we humans do NOT like change or having our beliefs challenged! With numerous wars/slaughters/cleansings going on around the world currently what happens when the beliefs they are "fighting for" come crashing down in flames with a disc from the sky?

 

You would like to think something like Independence Day would happen where all the cultures of humans band together for the greater good and advancement. However, when we can't even get 2 old white guys from the same country to agree on something simple without demonizing each other... I don't feel like it's going to go that way.

[Geeto67]

People can't use logic or figure things out on their own. They just want "facts" fed to them and don't want to think.

 

I have to spend way more time on social media then I really like to for work and it blows me away what people think is real because they read it on the internet, or some talking head said it.

 

Hell, some of the stuff in the performance industry I see people spouting off to get attention hurts to read.

 

I can't wait for when the real and solid proof of alien life shows up. People are going to freak out that their belief system MIGHT be a bit off

 

If you spend all your time in the sewer, then everything it gonna look like shit. There are scores of people who are logical, thoughtful, intelligent, etc...but you aren't gonna find them in any great measure on social media.

 

At this point, I think pop culture and the constant swirl of society has prepared most people for the idea that aliens exist. I don't know that it will be that much of a shock to the majority of people. Don't get me wrong, there will be excitement, but in terms of shock value it could probably be on par with columbus, magellan, or the vikings interacting with natives of lands they previously had not visited.

[Geeto67]

THIS is realistically one of the biggest reasons I think knowledge will be/has been held back, we humans do NOT like change or having our beliefs challenged! With numerous wars/slaughters/cleansings going on around the world currently what happens when the beliefs they are "fighting for" come crashing down in flames with a disc from the sky?

 

You would like to think something like Independence Day would happen where all the cultures of humans band together for the greater good and advancement. However, when we can't even get 2 old white guys from the same country to agree on something simple without demonizing each other... I don't feel like it's going to go that way.

 

I think knowledge has been held back because those conducting actual research do not want amateur speculators dragging garbage into their research. Having a popular opinion that is scientifically unsupported can lead to confirmation bias, it can influence people in ways they hadn't anticipated before, it can taint actual evidence as people rush to fake more. Science has enough of a hard time overcoming the garbage pop culture spews that people accept (see my example of marty and doc time travel from before) without people trying to actively interfere.

[99StockGT]

Don't get me wrong, there will be excitement, but in terms of shock value it could probably be on par with columbus, magellan, or the vikings interacting with natives of lands they previously had not visited.

 

That worked out SO well for the natives Many MANY cultures around the world out side of our little jewel of christian world here in the US acknowledge there's a very likely link to being from beyond our known world. Or from unknown parts of our world (i.e. subterranean or deep ocean) all of which would still fall into that same line.

[wagner]

THIS is realistically one of the biggest reasons I think knowledge will be/has been held back, we humans do NOT like change or having our beliefs challenged! With numerous wars/slaughters/cleansings going on around the world currently what happens when the beliefs they are "fighting for" come crashing down in flames with a disc from the sky?

 

You would like to think something like Independence Day would happen where all the cultures of humans band together for the greater good and advancement. However, when we can't even get 2 old white guys from the same country to agree on something simple without demonizing each other... I don't feel like it's going to go that way.

 

Churches need the knowledge suppressed because it's in direct conflict with what the pedal. Hell, there are entire countries that this would wreck.

 

I'm more interested in the science side of things when it comes to little green men.

[99StockGT]

Churches need the knowledge suppressed because it's in direct conflict with what the pedal. Hell, there are entire countries that this would wreck.

 

This is exactly my thought, and I imagine what most people have feared in the past from a position of power.

 

"How will this new knowledge effect the status quo, and how will it strengthen or weaken our/my position?"

 

As the late great George Carlin pointed out, more people have died in the name of "God" than for any other reason in human history. What happens when the concept or reality of "God" is changed/destroyed?

[justinwebb]

They ask the pilot at the beginning if he is armed, and then after finding out he isnt they tell him to keep up with it. Sounds like they wanted to see whatever cool new tech they have could handle a fighter chasing it. They used to give UFO stories to russia back in the day of the SR-71 since it was a secret super fast flying machine for spying.

[99StockGT]

They ask the pilot at the beginning if he is armed, and then after finding out he isnt they tell him to keep up with it.

 

I take that question one of two ways.

 

1) Ok good, he's not armed so he won't try to blow Mike and Tom out of the water in our new spiffy anti grav black ops vehicle

 

2) Well, if this becomes a shooting engagement you're fucked but we need you to drop in take a peek and see what the fuck it is

[Geeto67]

That worked out SO well for the natives Many MANY cultures around the world out side of our little jewel of christian world here in the US acknowledge there's a very likely link to being from beyond our known world. Or from unknown parts of our world (i.e. subterranean or deep ocean) all of which would still fall into that same line.

 

A lot of that outcome depended on the nature of the discoverer, not the reaction to being "discovered". Columbus, Magellan, etc...they weren't exactly altruistic explorers, they were treasure seekers looking to increase a fortune by any means. Even if our first contact is with hostile creatures I highly doubt we will start killing ourselves en masse over it.

 

I'm not saying there won't be fear, there will be - but fear doesn't always lead to mass hysteria, riots, and murder. Sometimes it just leads to electing a dipshit your leader. By the way, that would be the largest bummer. We make contact with aliens, and it is at a time when our leader is an inarticulate, overreacting, manchild. Holy shit that would suck.

 

Want to shit yourself in fear over aliens? Try to imagine all the foreign diseases they might give us "by accident" and all the ones we will give them in return. It's a plausible Armageddon scenario for both species, assuming compatible biology. heck even if they biology is only compatible with house cats it could affect the world catastrophically.

[99StockGT]

I can't think of 1 instance where the "discovered" have had an even marginally positive experience. Caribbean Indians... nope definitely not. Native Americans... nope for SURE not. Africans as they were "discovered" and colonized, holy shit no and still dealing with that. The partition of the Arabian world... yep still a complete cluster fuck. The "Spice Islands" discovery of SE Asian by Europeans... hmm yeah that went terribly and is still in many places a absolute disaster including currently some very effective genocides.

 

Personally, I imagine if some race of being has the ability to reach our planet they have considered/worked out the issues of cross contamination down to an "acceptable risk" IF they are even biological. Many threads of thought would have these beings be mechanical/robotic in nature similar to how we send probes/scouts/rovers. This could also make sense when factoring in the distances and stresses of space travel compounded with the maneuvers seen in many videos that biology as we know it would not survive.

[Geeto67]

I can't think of 1 instance where the "discovered" have had an even marginally positive experience. Caribbean Indians... nope definitely not. Native Americans... nope for SURE not. Africans as they were "discovered" and colonized, holy shit no and still dealing with that. The partition of the Arabian world... yep still a complete cluster fuck. The "Spice Islands" discovery of SE Asian by Europeans... hmm yeah that went terribly and is still in many places a absolute disaster including currently some very effective genocides.

 

Some of the more modern discoveries of lost tribes. But again not all. If your lost tribe is "discovered" by workmen clearing amazon rainforest it's probably gonna end with murdered villagers and burned huts. Discovered by scientists and explorers? you might fair better.

 

But in each of those scenarios you mention or I mention, the indigenous people don't start killing each other in a great frequency just because they had contact with a strange speaking white man. Sure they did it later when encouraged by the "discoverers" and given the advantage of advance weaponry, but it wasn't part of the initial contact.

 

But,the question isn't "will we be better off?", the question was "will just the information of positive confirmed proof of extraterrestrial life cause a mass panic or hysteria among all the humans on earth"? You say yes, I say no, and we can each cite why we disagree.

 

Personally, I imagine if some race of being has the ability to reach our planet they have considered/worked out the issues of cross contamination down to an "acceptable risk" IF they are even biological. Many threads of thought would have these beings be mechanical/robotic in nature similar to how we send probes/scouts/rovers. This could also make sense when factoring in the distances and stresses of space travel compounded with the maneuvers seen in many videos that biology as we know it would not survive.

 

"What we know" is the key element there. In terms of universal knowledge what we know compared to what's out there is like comparing a single rain drop to the combined world's oceans. It's fun to speculate with robots and time travel, and other things, but it could be that whatever it actually is exists beyond our limitations of comprehension at this stage in our evolution. What if these things move like nothing else because we don't know enough about our physical environment and we may never know because we are unable to perceive it?

[Geeesammy]

It made it onto a 2 minute segment on CNN, currently 3/4th of the way down the front page. A few local news channels have run versions of this as a "puff piece" with very little seriousness. I don't blame this all on the media, a huge portion of the blame needs to sit squarely on the American people who no longer pay any attention to anything unless it's in the Facebook news feed or some half naked girl mentions it on Instagram.

 

How we have reprogrammed ourselves to absorb facts and information is pitiful it has also HIGHLY damaged our ability to have intelligent civil conversations with each other on a wide range of topics.

 

Lol what

[99StockGT]

I had a bit of this conversation the other day in regards to our level of understanding and technology, which I think is relevant at this point. The scale of time in regards to our race of Human versus the cosmic scale of time is incredibly different. Generally accepting the age of our earth as habitable planet hosting complex life at the hundreds of millions of years the "Age of Man" is only just a tiny tiny bit of that. Modern man is only, according to fossil records and most accepted science only 20,000 years old plus or minus...and look what we have accomplished? We have a roaring industrial and technical society able to voyage into space at will, send technological probes to other world for exploration and science.

 

Imagine a race from a similar planet who followed a similar developmental path to us, but didn't have the global resets Earth has had over its life due to impacts/volcanoes/etc causing extinctions. Where would that civilization be developmentally now?

[99StockGT]

Lol what

 

To which part?

[Geeto67]

I had a bit of this conversation the other day in regards to our level of understanding and technology, which I think is relevant at this point. The scale of time in regards to our race of Human versus the cosmic scale of time is incredibly different. Generally accepting the age of our earth as habitable planet hosting complex life at the hundreds of millions of years the "Age of Man" is only just a tiny tiny bit of that. Modern man is only, according to fossil records and most accepted science only 20,000 years old plus or minus...and look what we have accomplished? We have a roaring industrial and technical society able to voyage into space at will, send technological probes to other world for exploration and science.

 

Imagine a race from a similar planet who followed a similar developmental path to us, but didn't have the global resets Earth has had over its life due to impacts/volcanoes/etc causing extinctions. Where would that civilization be developmentally now?

 

Assuming development happens at all. I heard Neil Degrass Tyson put this in perspective the other day when he noted the dinosaurs inhabited this earth for longer than they have been extinct (they inhabited for roughly 135 million years and only have been extinct for 65million) and there is no evidence that their society evolved into something similar to ours with tools and structure (it may have, we just have no proof, but it is unlikely). Many species have been on earth for hundreds of millions of years (e.g. crocodiles and sharks) and while they have evolved, they didn't really develop into a complex society.

 

 

BTW, how did we get this far without someone posting this:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/158/329/9189283.jpg

[99StockGT]

Yes there are some things in this conversation you need to accept as being plausible or none of it makes sense. If a race or races are incapable of advancement and societal development there's little to no chance they end up space faring races. No matter how many more million years of development they get, sharks aren't likely to be building space ships.

 

But assume instead of Dinosaur being the first, or early masters of our planet, we were. What would have changed in human kind over those hundreds of millions of years (assuming we don't blow ourselves up)? What would we look like? What adaptations and mutations would have flourished? Would we even still be a biological race?

[Bigbird]

I'm a little late to the party, but I definitely believe. My issue is, I don't know whether I believe that these objects are extra-terrestrial in origin, or that we've got some world changing technology that's being held behind the scenes to further the current economic system.