2020 Toyota Supra track tested

[l36tols1]

Impressive..

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27456854/2020-toyota-supra-testing-acceleration-zero-to-60/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowTWCD&utm_source=twitter&src=socialflowTW

 

0-60: 3.8 seconds 1/4 mile: 12.3 seconds.

 

[STEVE-O]

Still just a bmw

[CRed05]

Still just a bmw

 

I know, it's like how my prestigious Kia is a crappy rebadged Bugatti.

[unfunnyryan]

anyone willing to bet someone is already working to 2jz swap one of these

[jerrodh]

anyone willing to bet someone is already working to 2jz swap one of these

 

Working its already done? :dumb:

[POS VETT]

Numbers look impressive indeed

[Not Brian]

Auto lol

[Not Brian]

anyone willing to bet someone is already working to 2jz swap one of these

 

Already happened but they turned it into some faggy drift car

 

[10phone2]

i mean i thought it would be funny as shit to swap in a turbo bmw engine into a supra just to rustle the jimmies

[Otis Nice]

12.3 seconds? Camaro owners gonna be salty.

[BIGGU]

anyone willing to bet someone is already working to 2jz swap one of these

 

already done in japan a few times already all before the car was officially released too.

[Ackbar00]

My Focus with a G Tech runs a 12.7 so there is that......

 

 

Just not buying it. Assuming a 200# driver, that is 3572 race weight. With 335 Flywheel HP, no way it runs 12's. The best calculator is 13.43@106. Far cry from 12.3.....

[greg1647545532]

Just not buying it. Assuming a 200# driver, that is 3572 race weight. With 335 Flywheel HP, no way it runs 12's. The best calculator is 13.43@106. Far cry from 12.3.....

 

C/D seems to think it's underrated by quite a bit. I'm usually dismissive of claims that modern cars are underrated since there's an SAE testing procedure and ratings are less capricious than they were back in the day, but I suppose it's possible. The BMW version of the same car makes 382 horsepower and there may be some marketing hijinks going on with BMW not wanting the cheaper version of the same care to steal sales...

 

Of course, C/D also claims that the launch control did considerably worse times than they were able to pull with their expert feathering, which also raises an eyebrow.

[zeitgeist57]

C/D seems to think it's underrated by quite a bit.

 

Read thread, was going to say this.

 

The M5 Competition is 617hp advertised, 617hp on an AWD dyno.

https://www.motor1.com/news/349369/bmw-m5-competition-dyno-tested/

[2 Sweet]

12.3 seconds? Camaro owners gonna be salty.

 

Why's that?

[BuckeyeROC]

The #'s are MUCH better than I expected. I like the look of the old Supra better, but those are solid numbers.

[Geeto67]

I think this is an interesting car, really capable and it fills an empty market slot in being a cayman competitor as well as the death of the Z4 coupe. However, there are two business cases for other cars that I think give context to the Supra Release: the '04-'06 GTO and the 2008 VW R32.

 

The GTO: How much is a name worth really? At this point, with 20/20 hindsight the GTO has shown itself to be a very capable performance sport sedan. At the time however it had two strikes against it - controversial styling and the burden of a well established name, two things the supra is battling as well. My hope is that people will see through the "supra" mystique created by the Mark IV and see the car for what it really is - a capable sports car that offers an alternative to both the proscheophile and corvette crowd. The styling on the other hand is what it is. The GTO was controversial because it was boring, the supra is controversial because it looks like it has a dick for a nose, Either way I can't see it translating to sales. If the dodge charger proved anything - good styling can overcome the expectations of a name, but without it you might have another GTO.

 

the R32: VW made a bold choice in 2008 by offering an automatic only performance car to it's rabid manual transmission consuming fan base (The five car companies with the highest manual take rate by percentage are Subaru, VW, Fiat, Mini, and Mazda). At first the backlash against the car was noticeable, but the tech won out and all 5000 cars sold, usually at a premium. Still, when it came time to put another performance car in the lineup, the golf R, the fanboi's won out and a manual option was available again. Same thing happened with the dodge challenger - all the 2008 v8 models were autos, but the stick returned for 2009. If the car proves it has a viable place in the market, a manual transmission will likely return. If not, I don't see it happening.

 

Personally I love the supra, and I am happy that toyota has decided to be something more than the purveyor of rolling beige oppression and rusty pickup trucks. Having something is always better than nothing and in this case the car is at least something. I hope it sells well.

[greg1647545532]

Personally I love the supra, and I am happy that toyota has decided to be something more than the purveyor of rolling beige oppression and rusty pickup trucks. Having something is always better than nothing and in this case the car is at least something. I hope it sells well.

 

But the world didn't gain anything new -- there was a Z4 before, and there's still a Z4. Now there's just a Z4 with a different skin.

 

As a huge fan of Japanese cars for their reliability, simplicity, and conservative styling, I don't see the appeal of buying a BMW just because it's got a Toyota badge on it. If I wanted to buy over-engineered headaches I'd be a German car fan in the first place.

 

But I can't afford a $50k sports car anyway, so I don't think my opinion matters. I guess if you're a Germanophile and you view this as a discount Z4, it's a win.

[excell]

sports car

 

Super car

[greg1647545532]

Heh

[Geeto67]

But the world didn't gain anything new -- there was a Z4 before, and there's still a Z4. Now there's just a Z4 with a different skin.

 

Maybe not anything "new", but it didn't lose anything either. BMW made a Z4 fixed roof coupe from 2006-2008 and then abandoned it in favor of a retractable hardtop on the E89 Z4. Now there is a car that fills the hole in the market that the 2006-2008 Z4 coupe left.

 

What are the cayman competitors? the Audi TT, the Jaguar F-type, and...? now the supra.

 

As a huge fan of Japanese cars for their reliability, simplicity, and conservative styling, I don't see the appeal of buying a BMW just because it's got a Toyota badge on it. If I wanted to buy over-engineered headaches I'd be a German car fan in the first place.

 

That's one way to look at it. Another might be: as a fan of traditional Japanese and British sports cars that have proper inline six engines, I am glad there is a japanese sports car on the market that pays homage to that layout - even if the engine is a bmw. I mean sports cars are kind of bastards anyway: plenty of traditional British sports cars used american, Italian, and even Japanese power-plants, and the japanese have more than once paid outside firms like yamaha and rotax to design and build engines for them (where did you think the 1jz came from? 3 tuning forks aren't the toyota logo).

 

Also "reliable, simple, conservative" japanese sports car really only describes 1 (maybe 2) car: the miata (and maybe the S2000). Let's talk about all the japanese sports cars that are not simple, reliable and conservatively styled:

- NSX

- 3000GT VR4

- 300zx turbo

- Mark III and Mark IV Supra turbo

- Honda/Acura Type R (all generations)

- GTR

- WRX Sti

- Lancer Evolution

- Eclipse GS AWD

- RX7 and RX8

- Mazda Speed3

 

That's pretty much all of the japanese sports cars made since the 1980's. I would even argue that the original 240zx was a "complex" car for it's time (1969) with multiple Su carbs and SOHC layout

 

 

But I can't afford a $50k sports car anyway, so I don't think my opinion matters. I guess if you're a Germanophile and you view this as a discount Z4, it's a win.

 

Don't discount your opinion so easily. The used car market drives the new car market more than you think. Subaru and Jeep have both benefited from high used market resale values and as such it has given enthusiasts a voice in steering new products. When the used market saw people taking wrx wagons and stuffing them with STI drivetrains in 2006, Subaru made sure there was an STI wagon in it's next redesign of the car. When Jeep owners complained that the windshield was too hard to put down on the JK, they revamped it on the JL so its way easier now. If your opinion is you won't buy one used, and there are 100s like you - then that makes an impact on new buyers of the car who worry about resale value and the mfg has to make adjustments to the car to both make it appealing to the new buyer as well as the second owner.

[greg1647545532]

Just gonna have to disagree on some of these.

 

- NSX

 

Striking, yes, but a very conventional Japanese interior, conservative styling compared to 80s mid-engine exotics, and a relatively simple FWD V6 powertrain based on, essentially, an Accord engine.

 

- Mark III and Mark IV Supra turbo

 

90s Supras had very understated styling, and I'd argue that the Supras had the hallmark Toyota reliability that everyone loved at the time.

 

- Honda/Acura Type R (all generations)

 

Almost the definition of a conservatively styled, super reliable sporty car.

 

- RX7 and RX8

 

Reliability was certainly an issue, but the RX-7 is a sleek, timeless design with a very conventional Japanese interior.

 

That's not to say the new Supra is all that far out there in terms of exterior/interior design, but the interior is 100% BMW and the exterior is nowhere near as clean as, say, the Mk4, what with all the swoops and flares and fake vents everywhere. It's just not Japanese, in the way that the BR-Z/FR-S very much is.

[Not Brian]

12.3 seconds? Camaro owners gonna be salty.

 

Dumbest post of the month.

[Geeto67]

Just gonna have to disagree on some of these.

 

Well we are getting into the subjective parts of things. Conservative to supercars, which let's be honest, the NSX was still wild compared to a contemporary ferrari 348 or a lambo diablo, is not the same thing as conservative as compared to civics, cavilers, and basically 99% of the cars on the road. yeah the NSX put a reliable drivetrain and boring interior into the wildest and most technologically advanced chassis they had made do date. hardly "simple", esp since it was the worlds first mass produed alloy bodied car.

 

90s Supras had very understated styling, and I'd argue that the Supras had the hallmark Toyota reliability that everyone loved at the time.

 

The Mark III supra had I would say par for the course sports car styling - more overdone than say a c4 corvette, probably on par with pontiac in it's testarossa styling phase.

 

The mark IV supra was pretty understated for the time, except the turbos which were delivered with that giant superbird-esque wing on the back. Sure it was reliable, but sequential turbocharging on a mass produced 90's car is hardly "simple".

 

- Honda/Acura Type R (all generations)

 

Almost the definition of a conservatively styled, super reliable sporty car.

 

With a complex (for the time) NA powerplant. Vtech may be de-rigeur now but a DOHC VTECH engine in an era (1995) where most cars still had pushrods was pretty complex. The new type R is a turbocharged tech tour de force from honda. Reliable? sure. complex? you betcha. Also, let's not forget they also had a giant (for the era) shopping cart wing on the back - not exactly subtle.

 

- RX7 and RX8

 

Reliability was certainly an issue, but the RX-7 is a sleek, timeless design with a very conventional Japanese interior.

 

FD RX7 when it came out in 1992 was the antithesis of conservative. It was this wild swooping thing where corvettes still looked like door stops and the next wildest thing was the viper and NSX. It's timeless now, but in an era where it shared the road with ford taurses, third gen camaros, and chrysler K cars - it stood out like a space ship in an amish parking lot. Yeah it's timeless now, because it helped form taste for the last 20 years, we have had time to get used to it and see wilder stuff. I remember seeing my first FD in the early 90's and it was a "holy shit" kinda moment.

 

That's not to say the new Supra is all that far out there in terms of exterior/interior design, but the interior is 100% BMW and the exterior is nowhere near as clean as, say, the Mk4, what with all the swoops and flares and fake vents everywhere. It's just not Japanese, in the way that the BR-Z/FR-S very much is.

 

 

So it has a meh interior - seems to check out with all the other japanese sports cars with meh interiors.

 

and the outside styling isn't a MK IV supra, but times change, nothing is as "clean" as some earlier designs. The 04-06 GTO wasn't anywhere near as good looking either as the 1964-67 or 68-72 GTO. It's been 20 years - taste change. the swoops and flares and fake vents are as japanese as anything - just ask a 3000GT, or an FD Rx7. For almost all of the 1980's and part of the 1990's japanese sports cars were not the "conservative" styled cars you think they were - they were the trend setters. If you need proof, just look at the difference between a 3rd and forth gen F-body, or a C4 and C5 corvette, or a fox and an SN-95 mustang.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Geeto67

[AudiOn19s]

Maybe not anything "new", but it didn't lose anything either. BMW made a Z4 fixed roof coupe from 2006-2008 and then abandoned it in favor of a retractable hardtop on the E89 Z4. Now there is a car that fills the hole in the market that the 2006-2008 Z4 coupe left.

 

What are the cayman competitors? the Audi TT, the Jaguar F-type, and...? now the supra.

 

 

M2 / M2 competition didn't already fill that void?