CoronaVirus

[Gergwheel1647545492]

I call nonsense.

 

No way could a research facility in China be in disrepair and not following proper safety protocols? :dumb:

 

Read the Washington post article, it all makes perfect sense to me.

[cstmg8]

I call nonsense.

 

 

 

It was clear “almost overnight” that the virus wasn’t human-made, Andersen says. Anyone hoping to create a virus would need to work with already known viruses and engineer them to have desired properties.

 

 

 

But the SARS-CoV-2 virus has components that differ from those of previously known viruses, so they had to come from an unknown virus or viruses in nature. “Genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone,” Andersen and colleagues write in the study.

 

 

 

 

source

 

 

 

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

Just as devil's advocate. He's not claiming human made, just that they were experimenting/researching viruses and allowed something out.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[wagner]

Things are beginning to look worse for the entertainment and sports industries. We're starting to hear the idea being floated that there will be no sports and no large gatherings until FALL of 2021.

 

This is what's being floated behind closed doors right now and hasn't been fully vetted to be released to the public. From what I'm being told there are "negotiations" going on between people in the industry and the government on this.

 

Companies have stopped paying for advertising and halted all sponsorship checks. So all of your automotive magazines are going to die. All of them, Hot Rod, Motortrend, everything...

 

To be 100% honest with what I know based on the automotive industry right now this will effectively kill the car hobby, period. Even the biggest of the big companies are starting to hit the breaking point right now. It will finish closing race tracks and there won't be any sanctioning bodies left.

 

I know the NHRA has cut pretty much everybody they can. NASCAR is going to be the first big one to fall. There are multiple tracks that have already said the won't open in 2020 at all.

 

Right now Norwalk has THREE paid people on its staff, all at reduced pay, and Bader himself isn't even drawing a check.

 

With all that being said, anybody hiring? I'm going to be out of work I would say in 2-3 months.

[Mallard]

WHO statement: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/15/835179442/we-alerted-the-world-to-coronavirus-on-jan-5-who-says-in-response-to-u-s

 

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[cruizin01]

No way could a research facility in China be in disrepair and not following proper safety protocols? :dumb:

 

Read the Washington post article, it all makes perfect sense to me.

 

You're right. I didn't read that specific article and I should have. Most of what I have read or "heard" claimed a lab created it which was what my response was based on. So I concur with you.

 

Just as devil's advocate. He's not claiming human made, just that they were experimenting/researching viruses and allowed something out.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

I agree. Makes sense. I should have read further into it.

[TTQ B4U]

With all that being said, anybody hiring? I'm going to be out of work I would say in 2-3 months.

 

 

To your point Brian, that's why I'm so PO'd about this shut down as it's literally a complete halt that isn't just costing people jobs, it's costing many people careers that took years to build and positions that don't' just pop up on job boards and don't pay the typical average income wage. This shit is hitting people including highly skilled professionals and business owners that will now need to start over ruining 10-20+ years worth of efforts in a matter of months.

[zeitgeist57]

Things are beginning to look worse for the entertainment and sports industries. We're starting to hear the idea being floated that there will be no sports and no large gatherings until FALL of 2021.

 

This is what's being floated behind closed doors right now and hasn't been fully vetted to be released to the public. From what I'm being told there are "negotiations" going on between people in the industry and the government on this.

 

Companies have stopped paying for advertising and halted all sponsorship checks. So all of your automotive magazines are going to die. All of them, Hot Rod, Motortrend, everything...

 

To be 100% honest with what I know based on the automotive industry right now this will effectively kill the car hobby, period. Even the biggest of the big companies are starting to hit the breaking point right now. It will finish closing race tracks and there won't be any sanctioning bodies left.

 

I know the NHRA has cut pretty much everybody they can. NASCAR is going to be the first big one to fall. There are multiple tracks that have already said the won't open in 2020 at all.

 

Right now Norwalk has THREE paid people on its staff, all at reduced pay, and Bader himself isn't even drawing a check.

 

With all that being said, anybody hiring? I'm going to be out of work I would say in 2-3 months.

 

Really sucks to hear, Wags...but I certainly respect your take on what's going on in the industry. It's only been 4-6 weeks of COVID-craziness, and we see too many chinks in the armor. I was surprised when Accu-Air abruptly shut down seemingly overnight.

 

Being an optimist, I'm hopeful that even if we go through these extreme depths...maybe we come out the other side reorganizing some of the sport/hobby industries with new sanctioning bodies, groups, etc... bring it back down to a grassroots level. Nature abhors a vacuum.

[Geeto67]

To your point Brian, that's why I'm so PO'd about this shut down as it's literally a complete halt that isn't just costing people jobs, it's costing many people careers that took years to build and positions that don't' just pop up on job boards and don't pay the typical average income wage. This shit is hitting people including highly skilled professionals and business owners that will now need to start over ruining 10-20+ years worth of efforts in a matter of months.

 

It's ok to be PO'ed about the economy and it's affect on the job market, careers, small businesses, etc....

 

The problem with YOUR rhetoric is that you have literally said multiple times both here and on facebook that you think increasng the death toll is acceptable to stabilize the economy. I don't care how you justify it in your head but there is no way to make this argument that doesn't sound like "fuck the poor and the old they should die so I can go back to making money". This is a dangerous rhetoric (and not to be political but I'm gunna - somehow a republican talking point as well) not only because it puts people's lives at risk, but it sows division where it need not exist.

 

This current situation has made us all vulnerable, and the last thing we need is for one class of vulnerable people attacking another class of vulnerable people for monetary gain. furthermore history and current economic projections show that strong resposne to this pandemic and measured rollout at the right time will cause the economy to rebound stronger and quicker, and coming out too early will actually weaken that position.

 

TL;DR version just for Tim: Sit down and shut the fuck up. The Dewine administration is doing a great job handling this, has looked at your concerns and made the decision not to open up the ecomony yet for a good reason. Saying MORE people should die from this than necessary so the economy can get back on track doesn't help and it makes people that know you really question your values and morals.

[10phone2]

Kerry if the poor are not working then it makes it worse for them since they are financially more at risk unless we want to keep them poor and at risk. Unfortunately there is no "were all equal and protected" when dealing with health.

[RedRocket1647545505]

I hear the healthcare field is hiring right now.

[TTQ B4U]

The problem with YOUR rhetoric is that you have literally said multiple times both here and on facebook that you think increasng the death toll is acceptable to stabilize the economy.

 

I don't care how you justify it in your head but there is no way to make this argument that doesn't sound like "fuck the poor and the old they should die so I can go back to making money". This is a dangerous rhetoric (and not to be political but I'm gunna - somehow a republican talking point as well) not only because it puts people's lives at risk, but it sows division where it need not exist.

 

This current situation has made us all vulnerable, and the last thing we need is for one class of vulnerable people attacking another class of vulnerable people for monetary gain. furthermore history and current economic projections show that strong resposne to this pandemic and measured rollout at the right time will cause the economy to rebound stronger and quicker, and coming out too early will actually weaken that position.

 

TL;DR version just for Tim: Sit down and shut the fuck up. The Dewine administration is doing a great job handling this, has looked at your concerns and made the decision not to open up the ecomony yet for a good reason. Saying MORE people should die from this than necessary so the economy can get back on track doesn't help and it makes people that know you really question your values and morals.

 

Sorry Kerry but I've never said that the death toll is acceptable. Those are your words not mine. I've said that deaths and dates rates/risks are taken into consideration with just about everything we do in life and that's absolutely true. There is a balance between our society and it's functioning and the lives of our people. You included every time you go out to eat by the choice of your foods, the health of you and your family, the opportunities for accidents in a car or on a bike, etc. You balance that risk with the enjoyment or whatever it is you derive from that experience or act. Fat people walk around with lots of ailments by choice. People drive low mile MPG cars and litter by choice. We walk outside and attend parties exposing ourselves to all kinds of health risks having weighed the odds of something happening. Nothing new about it.

 

There's no "class of people" attacking anyone. I've not ever referenced the poor as it relates to covid. The fact that the elderly and higher risk are more vulnerable is a fact and we do know that. I've never said fuck old people, let them die.

 

I appreciate your feedback but it seems you're continuing to move your morals into the "sit down and shut the fuck up group" that we so much of on the far left. Is that really how you see Americans and our values but bullying people into shutting up with their opinions? Ditto, such comments make people that know you really question your values and morals too. Interestingly, I've seen that same stance being taken by others that I would never have expected to say it either. Guess more and more are creating their own division and now preferring to silence those around them with whom they disagree.

 

Not sure where you're pulling the more people should die part from because the reality is more people die every day from all kinds of things and will continue to do so. More people are going to die from the anti-vaxer crowd beliefs too so it's a pointless argument. During a hard winter more people die, during a hot summer, more people die. More than what? The average, last year, prior to covid?

 

The facts still remain that as of today using Ohio's own stats if you're under 30 you didn't die from it and likely won't.

 

If you're between 30-30 you stood .2% chance

If you're between 40-49 you stood .9% chance

If you're between 50-59 you stood 1.5% chance

If you're between 60-69 you stood 4.1% chance

 

The above are inflated too for all the reasons noted including the lack of various testing. We've crippled our economy when the VAST majority of working people that don't want to collect unemployment are NOT even at risk of dying from this when we could instead mitigate risks for everyone with a key focus on the elderly and vulnerable and leave those that want to stay out of circulation that right to do so. Self quarantine. The rest of America is looking to move forward and implement mitigation, some based on requirements whether from an industry standpoint or gov't stand point or a combo of both so that the impact on life and the economy taken into consideration and households can continue to prosper.

[Coaster]

 

The facts still remain that as of today using Ohio's own stats if you're under 30 you didn't die from it and likely won't.

 

If you're between 30-30 you stood .2% chance

If you're between 40-49 you stood .9% chance

If you're between 50-59 you stood 1.5% chance

If you're between 60-69 you stood 4.1% chance

 

As of 2010 there were 81,489,445 people between 45 and 64.

 

Assuming the low end of an unchecked spread being 60% of the population that is 48,899,073 infected people.

 

If only .9% of them die (which would be higher with an overwhelmed healthcare system but) that is 440,091 dead. Just in that age range.

 

I guarantee that is going to include people you know unless you are hit the lotto lucky. Mowing the grass looks easy, until you realize each blade is a person with a family.

[Geeto67]

Kerry if the poor are not working then it makes it worse for them since they are financially more at risk unless we want to keep them poor and at risk. Unfortunately there is no "were all equal and protected" when dealing with health.

 

The poor are at risk no matter what. If they work, they are the highest risk for contracting this disease because the lowest paying jobs are also the jobs that at the least able to work from home and have the least access to affordable healthcare. If they don't work they are the most vulnerable to economic harm as most live paycheck to paycheck. If you open the economy too early they will be the group that is likely to have the largest increase in covid deaths by both physical numbers and percentage of population. Furthermore they will increase the risk for the rest of us, because as they get sick we get sick.

 

https://theconversation.com/covid-19-is-hitting-black-and-poor-communities-the-hardest-underscoring-fault-lines-in-access-and-care-for-those-on-margins-135615

 

Is it a catch 22? you bet, and it sucks for everyone but esp those at the lower end of the economic spectrum. Right now, the current measures are saving lives, and while not as great as they could be there are measures being enacted to provide economic assistance beyond the federal stimilus (such as foreclosure protections, rent differals, and debt collection protections). The current course of action right now is what is best for literally everyone, stop trying to speed the plow when the entire medical, scientific, government, and political parties of ohio are in agreement that we are where we need to be.

[Geeto67]

Sorry Kerry but I've never said that the death toll is acceptable. Those are your words not mine.

 

You literallty said "locking everyone inside saved lives but it wasn't necessary and it's the at the cost of the economy".

 

Promoting the fallicy (and it literally is a bullshit fallicy) that the course of action taken by the ohio government wasn't necessary and therefore we should reopen is literally doing just that.

 

 

I've said that deaths and dates rates/risks are taken into consideration with just about everything we do in life and that's absolutely true. There is a balance between our society and it's functioning and the lives of our people.

 

or in other words some loss of life is acceptable. In this case it was mitigated, by actions which YOU REFUSE TO BELIEVE did that and are calling for the government to be open. I also believe that you said earlier in this thread that the people dying are "just the cards they have been dealt" like there is nothing we can do. So let's put this together:

 

(paraphrasing)

- We closed ohio unnecessarily and it did nothing so let's open the economy

- people are going to die from this and it's just the cards they have been dealt, so lets open the economy

- There is going to be a death toll we have to accept no matter what we do.

 

Put that in the context of the measures taken did save lives and it 100% looks like you are saying money and the economy are more important than lives or..."fuck the extra people who will die from this by opening the economy" or in other words... "fuck the poor."

 

 

I appreciate your feedback but it seems you're continuing to move your morals into the "sit down and shut the fuck up group"

 

Not sit down and shut the fuck up "group", Just you. You Tim Lauro need to sit down and shut the fuck up because you don't know what you are talking about and you are promoting a lie to advance your opinion. Meeting resistance doesn't mean you are right, sometimes you meet resistance because what you are doing is wrong, the things you are saying are batshit insane, and you really should stop re-evaluate what you are saying.

 

Promoting the lie that the shelter in place orders didn't do anything you prevent this compromises your character. That's objective, not "my morals". Using a lie to advance opening the economy is an immoral act, and one you rail you politicans constantly for making. It is by your own measure immoral. Doesn't matter if you believe in your heart of hearts that it's true (in the face of overwhemlimg evidence that it is not), these situations care more about data and cause and effects than your beliefs. So for the benefit of the people that know you (and are frankly embarrased by the batshit things you say), Tim, Sit down and shut the fuck up.

[10phone2]

I agree it's a catch 22. The problem is that obesity and related illnesses for example kills way more than corona. If were going to take the same actions across the board for other life threatening issues, then anyone labeled as over weight should have mandatory exercise program according to the government logic with corona. At what point does the government reach stop?

[TTQ B4U]

You literallty said "locking everyone inside saved lives but it wasn't necessary and it's the at the cost of the economy".

 

Promoting the fallicy (and it literally is a bullshit fallicy) that the course of action taken by the ohio government wasn't necessary and therefore we should reopen is literally doing just that.

 

It's true. We don't have to lock everyone inside to mitigate the danger to those at risk and doing so does impact the economy as a whole. Tens of thousands of people have Chemo every year and are at grave risk of getting sick due to the impact on their immune system but we don't lock down the world to prevent them from catching an illness. We mitigate their risks.

 

or in other words some loss of life is acceptable. In this case it was mitigated, by actions which YOU REFUSE TO BELIEVE did that and are calling for the government to be open. I also believe that you said earlier in this thread that the people dying are "just the cards they have been dealt" like there is nothing we can do. So let's put this together:

Everything we do in life has risks, many to the risk of life of ourselves and others that we go about accepting. To deny that is a flat out lie or deception of your own reality. I'm also not saying that our last month hasn't helped. It did. We as a country were essentially caught off guard and the wave of illness was headed our way. We prepared as best we could for the pending impact. Successfully, yes. Even hardest hit NY Fended off the overwhelming of their hospitals and didn't need the extra beds or ventilators. They did a good job.

 

Now we however know the virus is out there and how to mitigate it so opening up with a new approach vs being caught off guard is possible and just as everyday comes with risks that we accept. That is what I meant by cards that are dealt. We all live by those same cards. I can walk out to go run and errand and not come home. I mitigate the chance of that happening in many ways just like we will going forward until there's a vaccine.

 

Put that in the context of the measures taken did save lives and it 100% looks like you are saying money and the economy are more important than lives or..."fuck the extra people who will die from this by opening the economy" or in other words... "fuck the poor."

That's your incorrect view or paraphrasing not my words or points made, especially as it relates to "fuck the poor". Not surprising though as for some reason you seem to include such attempts in your replies. Whatever. I've learned to not worry about your incorrect inferences of other peoples words. That's been your style since day one here.

 

Not sit down and shut the fuck up "group", Just you. You Tim Lauro need to sit down and shut the fuck up because you don't know what you are talking about and you are promoting a lie to advance your opinion.

Gotcha. Really no difference Kerry. If a person targets just me or a group it's all the same. Call a specific black person only the N-word doesn't make you any less racist but if it makes you personally feel better than know that you're still wrong. It only really matters if you care not me.

 

Promoting the lie that the shelter in place orders didn't do anything you prevent this compromises your character.

My stating that sheltering in place for everyone isn't necessary going forward is far different than stating it did nothing thus far thus implying I said that (which I haven't) compromises yours character.

 

Tim, Sit down and shut the fuck up

...and you call Trump a dictator, tyrant and bully. Ironic. You've gradually lost the communication style you once had and ironically have become more of what you used to rail against.

[Tractor]

To your point Brian, that's why I'm so PO'd about this shut down as it's literally a complete halt that isn't just costing people jobs, it's costing many people careers that took years to build and positions that don't' just pop up on job boards and don't pay the typical average income wage. This shit is hitting people including highly skilled professionals and business owners that will now need to start over ruining 10-20+ years worth of efforts in a matter of months.

 

Tim and I see the same things and understand what a shutdown actually means.

[KentStateTsi]

With all that being said, anybody hiring? I'm going to be out of work I would say in 2-3 months.

 

Can you take over social media for Jegs. Please.

[Tractor]

With all that being said, anybody hiring? I'm going to be out of work I would say in 2-3 months.

 

I'm actually really in need of a partner for my tech business. I got the technical part covered and need someone to run the sales side. Who ever does it can have it I want nothing to do with that side.

[Geeto67]

It's true. We don't have to lock everyone inside to mitigate the danger to those at risk

Because you are an infectous disease expert? or even listening to the experts? no you are not and you aren't listening. You are just repearing a bullshit political talking point that people from "your team" in OTHER states are saying (and are getting called out for there as well).

 

Gotcha. Really no difference Kerry. If a person targets just me or a group it's all the same. Call a specific black person only the N-word doesn't make you any less racist but if it makes you personally feel better than know that you're still wrong. It only really matters if you care not me.

 

Over the course of our connection on facebook I've literally watched your "friends" call obama "the magic N-word" in response to your posts. Should we judge you by the company you keep?

 

Your selective lack of empathy for humanity is depressingly sad. Even now you seem to say "fuck the people whom racial slurs are about because they care and you don't".

 

 

My stating that sheltering in place for everyone isn't necessary going forward is far different than stating it did nothing thus far thus implying I said that (which I haven't) compromises yours character.

 

I didn't imply it - you literally said "Locking everyone inside saved lives but wasn't necessary". I quoted this above as well. You said it on April 14th on facebook would you like me to screen shot it for you? Either way you slice it it's a lie, and any way you look at it you are diminishing the efforts so far to promote a course of action that will hurt people and that literally everyone who knows more than you about it (again the ohio medical, science, and political communities) disagrees with. This is a dangerous game you are playing.

[spankis]

I agree it's a catch 22. The problem is that obesity and related illnesses for example kills way more than corona. If were going to take the same actions across the board for other life threatening issues, then anyone labeled as over weight should have mandatory exercise program according to the government logic with corona. At what point does the government reach stop?

 

For this comparison to make any damn sense at all (or to be a comparison), I'll need you to provide some data on how contagious obesity is.

 

It's true. We don't have to lock everyone inside to mitigate the danger to those at risk and doing so does impact the economy as a whole. Tens of thousands of people have Chemo every year and are at grave risk of getting sick due to the impact on their immune system but we don't lock down the world to prevent them from catching an illness. We mitigate their risks.

 

Tim, the chemo argument is one I continue to hear, and it's a bad one. The numbers aren't comparable, the risks of transmission aren't comparable. It's a poor comparison.

[10phone2]

obesity kills more people and is not contagious. The flu also is contagious and kills more people but were not shutting down the country is you want an apples to apples comparison.

[greg1647545532]

the flu also is contagious and kills more people

 

Not anymore, we're halfway through April and CV-19 has already killed more people than the 18/19 flu season preliminary CDC estimate. This is on pace to be equivalent of a very, very bad flu season, and that's on top of the flu, and that's with drastic quarantine measures.

[Otis Nice]

I call nonsense.

 

It was clear “almost overnight” that the virus wasn’t human-made, Andersen says. Anyone hoping to create a virus would need to work with already known viruses and engineer them to have desired properties.

 

But the SARS-CoV-2 virus has components that differ from those of previously known viruses, so they had to come from an unknown virus or viruses in nature. “Genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone,” Andersen and colleagues write in the study.

 

source

 

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

 

I call nonsense.

[spankis]

obesity kills more people and is not contagious. The flu also is contagious and kills more people but were not shutting down the country is you want an apples to apples comparison.

 

Come on man, the obesity point is a super hyper mega stretch. If I'm in the grocery store and I have to wait in line behind a 400 pound woman, I'm not at risk of catching the obesity and suffering its health consequences. Also, it takes a while for obesity to generate health impacts, and for it to impact our health system. It's not 2-3 weeks from contraction as with COVID... Honestly can't believe I've taken the time to spell this out but holy shit. Regardless it doesn't require the public health response, obviously.

 

Regarding the yearly flu, this comparison has been beaten to death so I'm not sure what rock you've been living under to miss it, but here goes. I've seen data showing Flu kills anywhere from 10,000 - 75,000 people in the US every year. Coronovirus as of today has killed 33,000+ people in the US. Those are deaths IN ADDITION TO the yearly flu. COVID isn't "just like" the flu, it's like another more contagious, more severe flu altogether. The difference is that there is effectively no research on COVID-19, and there is no vaccine for it to control the spread like there is the yearly flu.

 

Hopefully that helps clear things up, but holy cow do some reading brodeo.