carl1647545492 Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Got a letter from the HOA to remove part of the driveway we recently installed,we went larger and in fairness to them we didn't consult them first but called the orange township zoning instead. Has anyone mediated something like this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 I haven't, but I would never personally chose to live anywhere there is an HOA. Zoning said OK, so tell the HOA to go pound sand. But I hate everything HOAs are and stand for, so my hatred of them is coming out here. Probably the more reasonable path forward is to read whatever by-laws you supposedly violated, go to talk to them. Make some kind of case to them while saying sorry for not kissing their ring first, through whatever appeals/arbitration process they have. Any reasonable person on their end, even if you did violate something would hopefully realize it's kind of an asshole move to make you tear stuff up. I'm also assuming what you did was not unreasonable, and they will be reasonable. So, many assumptions on my end. I know you, so I think what you did was probably not unreasonable. They are on an HOA, so I don't necessarily expect them to be reasonable. But I think you almost have to give them and their process a chance. So, what did you do, make the driveway too wide by 6" based on some arbitrary rule they have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl1647545492 Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Yes we made it wider,I think they are definitely pissed because we didn't call them first as much as anything. After my wife spoke with the township and were told we could go all the way to the lot line if we wanted to it didn't occur to us to call them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruizin01 Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 That sucks. I dont have any solid advice either. I almost had a $10k fence built only to realize my township doesn't allow "wire" type fencing of any type. Nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC K9 Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 HOA's can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 I understand the theory of HOA's, the part that pisses me off is that basically every new community is an HOA and in reality it regulates the cost of homes to a pretty high price for working families. This is good for banks, good for investors, and good for the older people who got to build back when there was basically no regulation and was able to profit from it. I know its kinda off topic, its a very sore issue with me. Now the younger generations do not have the same conditions in which to grow. So now you want a driveway, LOL there are rules on how thick, how to build its base, and on and on. No thank you, I went completely the other direction, yes I live 10 minutes from the beach, but I live in a country area which allows for mobile homes and almost no regulation. The county however does have nazi building code guys, but at least I can do what I want and leave everyone around me along to do what they want. Its almost funny really, we make plenty of money and could live in the HOAs, but we save, invest, do fun things, buy whatever we want blah blah and maybe even retire someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Zoning boards and the county office enforce zoning laws and regulations. HOA's enforce covenants, which are agreements embedded in the title to your house that you are obligated to abide. So I hate to say it, while the zoning board gave you an all clear, there might be something in the covenant of your house that restricts your driveway width and the HOA might be in the right. The reason you check with the HOA is to make sure there aren't further restrictions YOU AGREED TO when you bought the house. It could also be a power struggle that you didn't go to them, but you are obligated to go to them so you fucked up. The first thing I would do is write them a letter (certified delivery) that request them to explain the grounds for their demand in detail. The second thing I would do is get a hold of your HOA's bylaws and figure out their appeals process, because you are going to need it. Also verify the reasons for whatever they tell you. At some point you may need a lawyer, HOA's have a lot more power than you think (they can foreclose on your home and even kick you out). I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you didn't do your due diligence. The good news is that HOA's are made up of people, and some can be reasonable. If they are objecting solely on the grounds that you failed to notify or file with them, then usually something can be worked out. If there really is a covenant restricting the size of the driveway, then that's going to be a harder battle to get a waiver or variance, and the worst case scenario is that your new driveway has to get torn up. best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 HOA LOL. Zoning LOL. Building codes LOL. I just don't get how someone else should be allowed to tell you what to do on land you own so long as it doesn't affect anyone else or their property value. Buncha Karen's who are power hungry. I'd tell them to pound sand...but I'd also turn down a killer house if it involved being in an HOA. It's bad enough that you get taxed when you buy property/a home and then continue to get taxed annually even if said property is paid off. My aunt bought a nice condo in a nice community. She had a damaged door so she had it replaced. The morning after the new door was installed she found a note tape to her new door that it wasn't the proper color. She left for work and came home and someone else had painted it. Screw that. Stay TF off my property. If you have a problem talk to me. I'll be understanding enough to have a civil conversation but don't modify/change/remove something I own if it's not hurting anything. She also had the HOA try to tell her she had to pay for a new roof even though hers and 70% of the community's didn't need new roofs just because the rest had some storm damage and they were afraid they wouldn't match. Just...lol. Best advice has been given by Jesse but I wouldn't do a daggone thing myself. There's my 1 cent. It's not worth 2. EDIT: This right here is the absurdity of everything. Someone else telling YOU what YOU can do with what YOU bought. Just...lol. Get out of here, HOA Karen's. At some point you may need a lawyer, HOA's have a lot more power than you think (they can foreclose on your home and even kick you out).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 HOA LOL. Zoning LOL. Building codes LOL. Yes, kind of, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 HOA LOL. Zoning LOL. Building codes LOL. I just don't get how someone else should be allowed to tell you what to do on land you own so long as it doesn't affect anyone else or their property value. You agree to it when you buy that specific home. Don't want to agree to it? don't buy that home. How is this hard to understand? They cover all the covenants as part of the closing. The majority of covenants are drafted to deal with restrictions on the community as a whole. usually things that affect drainage and access, but they can go as far as telling you how your house should look, how long your grass is allowed to get, and how wide your driveway can be (because it is presumed that the value of your home based on it's curb appearance affects all others in the neighborhood). Covenants also have some ugly history in enforcing segregation and racial bias in home ownership, but that's a discussion for another day as most of them have been invalidated by federal law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 You agree to it when you buy that specific home. Don't want to agree to it? don't buy that home. How is this hard to understand? Yes, that's exactly what I said. It's not hard to understand. I would not agree to buy that home. Thank you for the Kerryfication. Would you or any others buy a vehicle under the stipulation that someone else dictated what color it is, what gas you put in it, what mods you can do (ope, warranty folks), etc? It's just not in me to allow some other schlub to tell me how to live my life so long as I'm not hurting others. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharris89 Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Paint the part they don’t like green or put AstroTurf down. See if they notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 As much as i hate to say it, you might be best served to kiss a little ass at the beginning of this process rather than come on strong with the "prove it" mentality (ie "show me in the covenant where it states my driveway has to be a certain width" etc... etc... etc...). I wonder how that would be worded in a contract? "everyones house has to be symmetrically similar to the neighboring home" ? i doubt there will be lines that give exact measurements on every ones driveway right? how much bigger is your driveway? We were extremely lucky to purchase in a neighborhood HOA that is run by the best people you'd want to call your neighbors. We were told when we moved in that the current president let any legal claim to the homes lapse on purpose b/c even they disagreed with overzealous HOA's. I have no idea if this is true or if its even possible but when I built our shed last year no one knocked on our door asking me to take it down, its a nice enough shed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 Yes, that's exactly what I said. It's not hard to understand. I would not agree to buy that home. Thank you for the Kerryfication. Would you or any others buy a vehicle under the stipulation that someone else dictated what color it is, what gas you put in it, what mods you can do (ope, warranty folks), etc? It's just not in me to allow some other schlub to tell me how to live my life so long as I'm not hurting others. YMMV. Can you believe when I lived in base housing the government made me mow my lawn and bring my garbage cans in? Fucking fascists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 Hey Carl, somewhat on topic, did you have to file an improvement claim request with Orange Township zoning or anything? I want to expand my driveway as well and have been wondering the opposite of you if zoning would complain instead of my HOA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl1647545492 Posted October 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 We only spoke to Orange township on the phone and we were told we could take the driveway out to our lot line if we wanted, so we went with that and was a surprise when the HOA said different. This caught us out not their fault so I would confirm with all parties. Initially were going to build a third car garage and had builders come out and quote us they spoke about the township lot lines and such but cannot remember if the HOA was ever mentioned we decided 80K for a 3rd garage was too much but had we gone for it tearing down a structure would have really sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) Smokey, I don't have any experience in Orange, but in Franklin the permits office has been immensely helpful with any questions I've had for them. Almost to the point of walking me through the projects I had planned and telling me where I was OK/right VS need to do something different whether it was due to code or just best practices. It doesn't hurt to call. :nod: Edited October 29, 2020 by Trouble Maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe7 Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 Hey Carl, somewhat on topic, did you have to file an improvement claim request with Orange Township zoning or anything? I want to expand my driveway as well and have been wondering the opposite of you if zoning would complain instead of my HOA. FYI - The Residential Permit Cheat Sheet on the following page is pretty helpful on this topic and suggests that a permit is required for a driveway extension. I'm in Orange Township as well, and while I haven't had to personally work with the Zoning Board/Department, I've heard they are reasonable and helpful. https://orangetwp.org/187/Applications-Fees-Permits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 Is there a specific line item in the HOA that you violated? Also, is the neighbor that your driveway up against cool with your driveway? Unfortunately, HOAs are almost a necessary evils for nice, newer, family-oriented neighborhoods these days for middle-class suburbs. For all the reasons people (including me) dislike them, there are as many if not more reasons to like them if you want to live somewhere that all of the people keep their homes respectable. Sure, I want to keep a trailer, a boat, and any neato car I find in my driveway. But, I understand that I am the 1% that would be OK living in a junkyard lol. Also, I would not want all my neighbors to have a junkyard in front of their house. At this stage of my life with young kids, and wanting them to grow up in an area full of other young kids, it's a great trade-off. Add in community pools, playgrounds...ect, at the end of the day I am here for them. As for your situation, I have played this game before. Find the specific "thing" you violated, asked to speak with the board, kiss a little ass, get a signed variance from your neighbors, and this will be taken care of without issue. And lastly- ALWAYS GET SHIT IN WRITING. Always! That's is in life really, not just with this. I dont care what you say over the phone, send me that in an email, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) Can you believe when I lived in base housing the government made me mow my lawn and bring my garbage cans in? Fucking fascists. That's definitely the very same thing OP is dealing with and an apples to apples comparison. Thank you for your input. It has served us all so very well and we are all in debt to you for your service and your wisdom. That's not YOUR land that YOU paid for, that's gubmit land you acorn. Mow your grass and cut yer hair ya hippie. Edited October 30, 2020 by Otis Nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 Would you or any others buy a vehicle under the stipulation that someone else dictated what color it is, what gas you put in it, what mods you can do (ope, warranty folks), etc? You just made me realize that my wife is the HOA for my life. You can disobey, but they will constantly remind you of your infraction. Thanks. Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 You just made me realize that my wife is the HOA for my life. You can disobey, but they will constantly remind you of your infraction. Thanks. Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 First, fuck HOA's. Second, you say the covenant is tied to the title of the house when you buy it. But what about houses that were bought (built) before the HOA was formed? Do you still have to abide by their rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 I live in an HOA community. I dont have any issue with it for the most part. It was irritating to ask for permission to put up a fence and one of the neighbors got pissy about it. Never met them and they come storming into my yard as the company was installing it and she goes "oh, so your putting in a fence too?! Where are the deer gonna go?!" You can imagine my response. I turned to her and said 1st, you dont want my bulldogs running in/around your yard. They dont like you. 2nd, why do I have to worry about where the deer will go in a residential neighborhood? 3rd, nice to meet you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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