WWCRD; off-road and towing light vehicle?

[Tractor]

Tacoma, Highlander, or Grand Cherokee, get my vote.

 

What would really get my vote is a rust free Suburban. It can tow more, camp the entire fam, fit full sheets of plywood with the seats down, and checks every box EXCEPT age possibly (haven't shopped them in awhile) and size.

 

Most folks think I'm a "Ford guy" but working on the farm for 3.5 years having my buddy who ran the farm with his '99 Suburban was awesome since my '78 K10 had a short bed. He also built storage drawers and want not that could drop in or be removed if needed. He ended up selling that one and getting a '98 (IIRC) with a 454. Both were absolute work horses, rust free, and both over 200k with not a single issue.

 

I say all of that knowing you don't want an older Suburban, but I think I do. lol

 

EDIT: Almost forgot, if you go with a midsize truck or SUV and NEED a full size truck you can rent them for, like, $20 a day.

 

I looked at the Suburbans and found that the 2000's and up you really need to find the 3/4 tons to get the good stuff and they were pretty rare where I was looking so I went another route.

[unfunnyryan]

Randy makes a good point, how often are you going to use this thing? Just get a nice rental SUV/Truck if its only a few times a year.

[Trouble Maker]

Trying to ferret out the trim levels and options/packages for these cars is daunting. I know conceptually what capability I want, but what trim level, options and package will get me there is difficult to find. Then it's a whole other level of idiocy to try to figure out what combo the car I'm looking at on Auto Trader has.

[Robochan]

Just went off roading in AZ for a couple days in a can am X3. The amount of rental cars and stock Range rovers getting places I didn’t think was possible really changed my view on how capable most cars are. K02s on a CRV could probably make it anywhere you want to go.

[ODoyle]

I have a JLU on 35's and a JT on 37's. Both Sport S models with hard tops. I am very happy with both of them. The JT tows well, it trails well, it road trips really well (22mpg from Here to TN and back- before 37's)

 

Sport S models are very capable- You don't NEED a Rubicon unless you are doing some hardcore trails.

[Trouble Maker]

Just went off roading in AZ for a couple days in a can am X3. The amount of rental cars and stock Range rovers getting places I didn’t think was possible really changed my view on how capable most cars are. K02s on a CRV could probably make it anywhere you want to go.

 

I would tend to agree. We took our (AWD) CRV into Great Sand Dunes National Park and it did fine, but it was mostly packed sand so a FWD car would have probably done fine. We almost ran out of ground clearance a few times though. A lot of people probably overestimate what they will do with a car in general but especially in use cases like this; towing, off-road, etc. And they underestimate what the cars are actually capable of. They usually don't have much experience there and probably want to be over prepared or confident if they ever go do that thing. Margin is not a bad thing, but also for me for off-roading it can also make it kind of boring. Even though I have a bit of background in this area, I'm probably doing this a bit. I see the regular trim 4Runner or Grand Cherokee and automatically think I need the TRD or Summit/Overland. Granted those do or often have other nice to have features. The drive mode select and often for the Grand Cherokee's air sus that comes with those levels would be some very nice to have features. But also I'm at a specific price point so I can either chose those features or a newer car. So I need to be realistic about what I'm going to do with this car, it's all about trade-offs.

 

Having said that, no way I'm purchasing anything that FWD based with only a (weak ass) single clutch rear diff for wanting to do any offroading. I've driven vehicles in this segment enough every kind of drive layout in just about every imaginable condition to know I would never be happy with one of these. Base for me is FWD based with twin clutch rear diff (Pilot, Ridgeline, Rav4 TRD) or anything more capable. And anyway the RAV4/CRV segment doesn't even come close to what I want to tow and the other FWD based cars only get so close. I've towed with our LDTs at their max weight pretty extensively and it's not where I want to live if I have the choice. So I'll get something else that has some margin. My parents are going to buy a camper and we'll split use of this car and camper for trips. So especially with my parents towing I want something that's going to be easy for them to tow with. The next talk is about what they really want and will get in a camper to see what this needs tow. But I've casually shopped around enough to have a rough idea that's it's probably going to end up in the 4-6k# GVWR range.

 

I do like your point about tires, it always comes down to tires!

Edited November 24, 2020 by Trouble Maker

[Trouble Maker]

I have a JLU on 35's and a JT on 37's. Both Sport S models with hard tops. I am very happy with both of them. The JT tows well, it trails well, it road trips really well (22mpg from Here to TN and back- before 37's)

 

I do really like Jeeps for what they are, I was thinking to suggest the Glaidator to my parents for a new/tow vehicle. But since I'm buying the car, I get to get what I want in my budget.

Wranglers don't have the towing capacity I'm looking. Glaidators are too new to have the deprecation I look for, regardless of that they are outside of my price range, and they are bigger than the vehicles I'm looking at. I normally chose to drive something the size of a 2 door Civic or my S2000 if I have the choice. The vehicle I'm looking at will be huge compared to what I normally like and drive. I've decided I'm specifically not looking for a full sized truck in size or capability.

 

Sport S models are very capable- You don't NEED a Rubicon unless you are doing some hardcore trails.

 

My general feeling after renting a Rubicon in Moab was that it would make most trails boring/easy until you got to the point of needing to wench yourself over and around stuff and I'm honestly not all about that.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Trouble Maker

[Otis Nice]

I looked at the Suburbans and found that the 2000's and up you really need to find the 3/4 tons to get the good stuff and they were pretty rare where I was looking so I went another route.

 

What's the "good stuff"?

[Tractor]

Transmissions that are a bit better for one, I saw a lot of complaints over failures, who knows just what I saw on the net while looking so take it for what its worth.

[cstmg8]

I do really like Jeeps for what they are, I was thinking to suggest the Glaidator to my parents for a new/tow vehicle. But since I'm buying the car, I get to get what I want in my budget.

Wranglers don't have the towing capacity I'm looking. Glaidators are too new to have the deprecation I look for, regardless of that they are outside of my price range, and they are bigger than the vehicles I'm looking at. I normally chose to drive something the size of a 2 door Civic or my S2000 if I have the choice. The vehicle I'm looking at will be huge compared to what I normally like and drive. I've decided I'm specifically not looking for a full sized truck in size or capability.

 

 

 

My general feeling after renting a Rubicon in Moab was that it would make most trails boring/easy until you got to the point of needing to wench yourself over and around stuff and I'm honestly not all about that.

Disagree, I enjoy a good wench.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Otis Nice]

Transmissions that are a bit better for one, I saw a lot of complaints over failures, who knows just what I saw on the net while looking so take it for what its worth.

 

Ah. I hadn't heard of any issues with them. He's run Suburban's for as long as I've known him and a long time before that and never mentioned any trans probs. That's really my only experience is being friends with him and seeing them used on the farm and hauling crap out there for builds and what not.

 

Also came in handy towing back a large tractor that kersploded way out in a field. lol

[Trouble Maker]

Disagree, I enjoy a good wench.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, the wife would get really mad if we were truly stuck out in the woods.

 

Also, that spelling always gets me.

 

And, just kidding hunny you're not a wench.

[Trouble Maker]

Alright, help me narrow things down a bit.

 

4Runners, LexusGX460, Tacoma and Grand Cherokee in the $20k-$25k range near me.

Or if I bump the price range up just a bit, I fell like it starts to get into some really nice options.

$25k-$27.5k

 

What trim level or options do I need for some of these to get the higher towing capacity? I need to talk to my paretns about what camper they want, but I don't think 5,000 pounds is going to cut it once you load the camper/car up.

 

It seems like the 4Runner's fixed at 4,700 or 5,000 pounds depending on year.

GX460 is fixed at at 6,500

But the Tacoma and Grand Cherokee are the one's I'm not sure about

Tacoma = 3,500-6,800 pounds, is it just a tow package?

Grand Cherokee = 3,500 - 7,200 pounds. I can't for the life of me figure what it's exactly tied to, even for brand new ones.

 

Thinking about it more, I also really think an SUV would work better for me, putting skis or bikes or other gear in the back.

[Geeto67]

v8 grand Cherokee.

[Trouble Maker]

v8 grand Cherokee.

 

I'm leaning that way, but V8's in this price range are slim pickings. As far as I can tell, then Grand Cherokee V6 vs V8 doesn't effect their tow capacity, but the V8 would surely make it easier to tow.

 

V8s

 

This one might be the ticket. Higher miles that I would like, but that's true with all that list. Some parts of the interior look just a little beat up, but from what I can tell in the pictures it would probably clean up OK and seems reasonably reflected in the price.

 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=567289487

Edited November 25, 2020 by Trouble Maker

[Skinner]

Is a Jeep Cherokee XJ out of the picture? If not you can pick on a clean low mileage (100k) for around $7 to$10k. They are crazy reliable and cheap to fix. You do a lift complete lift for under $1k. Add a good set of tires and it will be more than capable for what you are wanting to do even light towing.

[Trouble Maker]

Is a Jeep Cherokee XJ out of the picture? If not you can pick on a clean low mileage (100k) for around $7 to$10k. They are crazy reliable and cheap to fix. You do a lift complete lift for under $1k. Add a good set of tires and it will be more than capable for what you are wanting to do even light towing.

 

Yeah, way too old even if reliable. This will be my every day car. If my parents get a camper they will take it out west with this for 4-6 weeks, probably do weekend trips with my sisters kids. We'll do trips with it too. I feel like I need something newer for that. That's the next conversation, how serious are they about the camper and what is their image so I can get an idea of actual weight. I think they will get one if I get this.

[Geeto67]

I'm leaning that way, but V8's in this price range are slim pickings. As far as I can tell, then Grand Cherokee V6 vs V8 doesn't effect their tow capacity, but the V8 would surely make it easier to tow.

 

V8s

 

This one might be the ticket. Higher miles that I would like, but that's true with all that list. Some parts of the interior look just a little beat up, but from what I can tell in the pictures it would probably clean up OK and seems reasonably reflected in the price.

 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=567289487

 

I assume you are looking at WK generation GC's (2005-2010), if you aren't let me know.

 

I believe the thing that affects towing is the 4wd package. in the WK generation there were 3 4wd setups :

 

- quadra-track I

- Quadra-Track II

- Quadra Drive II

 

Quadratrack I (QT1) operates like an AWD system, RWD bias until there is slippage then it engages the front. Its only on the v6 models and it comes with open diffs and that electronic LSD where it taps the brakes of the slipping wheel.

 

Quadratrack 2 (QT2) is a real transfer case 4wd (48/52 FR bias) with open diffs and the brake tapping LSD (BTCS). It is available on the V8 as the base 4wd system.

 

QuadraDrive 2 Is the same as the Quadratrack 2 system but adds electronic diff lockers front and rear instead of the BTCS. This is the best system for the GC and it is only available as an option on the V8. This carries the highest tow rating. This is the one you want, even over a new WK2 (2011-present) because in the Wk2 they got rid of the front dif LSD and just had the rear. If you aren't lifting it - that front Elocker makes it super off road capable for a stock truck.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't fuck with a non-pentastar V6 GC (3.7L) with a strangers dick and your foot on my ass pushing. It's slow, the auto trans is constantly hunting, the thing sounds like a moonshot just to get going, did I mention its slow?

 

Now if you are considering a WK2 (the 2011-present) GC's they changed a lot and there is stuff I like and don't like. For instance the "Selec-Terrain" replaces the e-lockers with that bullshit BTCS brake traction control and then they stuff it in the "off road capable" trailhawk. ick. I do however think the selec-terrain's ability to change front rear bias (60% front for snow, 60% rear for performance, up to 100% rear for sand/mud) is neat. the Wk2 tow capability does split along v6/v8 lines with 5000lb capacity for the v6 and 7500lb for the hemi.

 

does this help?

[Skinner]

Also if you want to check out a 3rd gen Tacoma let me know you can take mine for a spin but it will likely be at or above your price range.

[Trouble Maker]

BTW, in chat Kerry and Mitch gave me two immensely useful links that I wanted to add in here and thank them again.

 

https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C4RJFCT2EC211672

Replace the VIN after the = with with the VIN you want to lookup. It will give you Jeep and I believe any FCA window sticker so you can see the options on that particular car. It think it's impossible just looking at pictures online to know if the car has Quadra-Drive II otherwise.

 

And http://www.wk2jeeps.com/wk2menu.htm

It seems like anything you would ever want to know about any Grand Cherokee is somewhere there. That's for the WK2 (2011-Current), but the have pages for the others too.

[Trouble Maker]

I think I've essentially narrowed it down to a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 (WK2) for the best combo of off-road and towing for me. But I worry about the reliability with it being an FCA vehicle. Can anyone offer any good info on their reliability?

 

Any thoughts on an FJ Cruiser?

If I was ignoring my parents getting a camper, the easy decision would be the 4Runner. But then I remembered FJ Cruiser, that I've always really liked (the idea) of them. If my parents end up wanting a bigger camper than what the Jeep can town, they will just get a truck to tow it and I can focus less on the towing capability. Manual option is cool, and it has what seems like the better 4WD system. But with having not a ton of experience off roading I'm wondering if the MT will add a level of difficulty. The auto is not as tempting since it doesn't have an on-roadable 4WD system. They also seem like they have kept their value very well from a quick search, so the 4Runner might be the better deal.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Trouble Maker

[Tractor]

Automatic transmissions tend to be easier on drive parts in the off-road environment especially when needing to switch between forward and reverse. and being able to put it in park is a very nice feature and safer.

 

I wheeled a serious toyota pickup a long time that I V8 swapped and ran MT and auto in it and I'd take auto over manual every time of it's gonna be off-road or a pavement queen. Manual to me is for control in racing. That being said it's fun to shift my Deuce but It's more for LOLs anyway.

[Geeto67]

Any thoughts on an FJ Cruiser?

If I was ignoring my parents getting a camper, the easy decision would be the 4Runner. But then I remembered FJ Cruiser, that I've always really liked (the idea) of them. If my parents end up wanting a bigger camper than what the Jeep can town, they will just get a truck to tow it and I can focus less on the towing capability. Manual option is cool, and it has what seems like the better 4WD system. But with having not a ton of experience off roading I'm wondering if the MT will add a level of difficulty. The auto is not as tempting since it doesn't have an on-roadable 4WD system. They also seem like they have kept their value very well from a quick search, so the 4Runner might be the better deal.

 

I looked hard at one for a long time, but then eventually didn't pull the trigger.

 

MT is full time 4wd, which kills the gas mileage. Otherwise I think it's the only way to go with the FJ (but that is just because I hate automatics). They hold their value shockingly well - I still see people asking close to $20K for 13 year old, almost 100K mile trucks. Germain in Easton has a stick one on their lot with 200K miles that they want $16K for so....market for them is a little bonkers. There is someone on here with long term ownership who can probably tell you more about what it is like to live with one.

 

If you are considering an FJ, why not just look at a Pentastar (2012+) JKU Wrangler? If you want something that is trial capable, look for a Willy's Wheeler - It's all the good parts (Lockers, rear axle, shocks, wheels/tires) of a Rubicon without the electronic sway bar disconnect, stickers, and fancy interior. Dad's got a 2016 JKU WW and I've taken it down many of the Long Island trails by his house without an issue, no lift, no winch, no problem.

 

Wheeling a stick rig is how four wheeling went for decades - most jeeps/FJ40s/broncos were stick. Personally I think it is more forgiving than having an automatic, most of wheeling is sticking it in one gear and crawling along anyway.

[Not Brian]

6.2 Z71

Get big all terrains and drive it to work

Put a loud exhaust on it to establish dominance

[Tractor]

6.2 Z71

Get big all terrains and drive it to work

Put a loud exhaust on it to establish dominance

 

Don't forget to add the Carolina squat and it's all win all the time