BuckeyeROC Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 Interesting, 1 in 5 EV owners in Cali going back to ICE: http://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-owners-switching-gas-charging-a-hassle-study-2021-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 Alternate headline: 80% of EV owners are satisfied with the EV ownership experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 It is a big drawback for those driving outside just their little area of life. Love the idea of performance, etc but spending 20 minutes and hoping the charger works to do what normally takes a few and has never let me down is a big factor. I don't have time nor patients to wait around at a rapid charger while I'm traveling. Home charging is cool and all once retrofitted but even there for best results you're supposed to only charge to 80% and that limits things. Add in winter and losing another 20% due to cold and that takes a potential 310 mile range to about 185. Then losing range simple sitting outside in the cold. At least with gas if I make it to a destination with 32 miles to go, I know when I come out it still has 32 miles to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 Car guys: EVs don't work for primary cars, I would still need another car, so they don't work for me. Also car guys: I'd like to introduce you to my 17th car. It's different from the first 16 because of the specific combination of exterior color, interior color and options package it has on it. Once you factor in that it was built on a Tuesday around 3pm it's 1 of 5 unique cars out of the 1,566,342 of these that were built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 My goal is to get the wife an EV at some point in the near future. For her it would be great as she usually doesn't travel far and an EV would make sense as long as it has an OK range. For me and my work, I could use an EV but for long trips i'd have to rent and that'd get to be a pain but we'll see where it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossle Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 I'm not opposed to having a EV as my primary vehicle if I HAVE to. I am opposed to totally getting rid of ICE vehicles to the point where we can't register them at all. (See historical vehicles) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99FLHRCI Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 I am often mobile until 11pm or midnight. I am back up on the road by 5am. This gives me a 5-6 hr charge window. Work and back with no traffic or detours is 110 miles. Add in any errands etc. This is all if I do not run a middle of the night emergency call. To meet these demands, I would need a long range model. 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range is $45k. $20k more than my current car. Add $6k for a Level 2 charger. It would take 147,967 miles before I broke EVEN on just the purchase price of the car and charger. Adding in the cost of electricity at $0.12/kwh it would take an additional 33,684 miles to break even. That is 181,650 miles vs. my 21mpg premium gas current vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 It is a big drawback for those driving outside just their little area of life. Love the idea of performance, etc but spending 20 minutes and hoping the charger works to do what normally takes a few and has never let me down is a big factor. I don't have time nor patients to wait around at a rapid charger while I'm traveling. Home charging is cool and all once retrofitted but even there for best results you're supposed to only charge to 80% and that limits things. Add in winter and losing another 20% due to cold and that takes a potential 310 mile range to about 185. Then losing range simple sitting outside in the cold. At least with gas if I make it to a destination with 32 miles to go, I know when I come out it still has 32 miles to go. Some of this info is correct, but I've been using my Tesla for field service for the last year (~45k miles). I've driven it from Las Vegas back to Illinois, over to Virginia, up to Wisconsin, South Dakota, etc. The charging doesn't really get in the way since I'm usually stopping to eat or use the restroom after driving for several hours. The winter driving is fairly accurate but apparently the newer cars are using a heat pump instead of resistive heat which doesn't eat into range as much. Still, I can get to anywhere I need to go, even when it's cold. My home charger works great and was easy to install. #6 wire to a 60A breaker. No big deal. Edit: Add $6k for a Level 2 charger. My charger was $500. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robochan Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 “Californians lack life planning and purchase electric car without thought of charging it” Did y’all even read the article? 70% who switched back to ICE didn’t have access to level 2 or better chargers. That’s just poor decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robochan Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 My level 2 charger cost me nothing. 220v 30amp socket in the garage already. Tesla plugs right in with the included adapter. Electric is not for everyone but I’m baffled by all this misinformation and fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 I am often mobile until 11pm or midnight. I am back up on the road by 5am. This gives me a 5-6 hr charge window. Work and back with no traffic or detours is 110 miles. Add in any errands etc. This is all if I do not run a middle of the night emergency call. To meet these demands, I would need a long range model. 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range is $45k. $20k more than my current car. Add $6k for a Level 2 charger. It would take 147,967 miles before I broke EVEN on just the purchase price of the car and charger. Adding in the cost of electricity at $0.12/kwh it would take an additional 33,684 miles to break even. That is 181,650 miles vs. my 21mpg premium gas current vehicle. My current travels would put me in a similar situation. The part that I disagree with is the fact that people buy dumb SUV's and trucks as opposed to a very fuel efficient small car. There are plenty of ways to be more fuel efficient with an ICE but people would rather burn gas in a truck then complain about costs. Some of this info is correct, but I've been using my Tesla for field service for the last year (~45k miles). I've driven it from Las Vegas back to Illinois, over to Virginia, up to Wisconsin, South Dakota, etc. The charging doesn't really get in the way since I'm usually stopping to eat or use the restroom after driving for several hours. The winter driving is fairly accurate but apparently the newer cars are using a heat pump instead of resistive heat which doesn't eat into range as much. Still, I can get to anywhere I need to go, even when it's cold. My home charger works great and was easy to install. #6 wire to a 60A breaker. No big deal. Edit: My charger was $500. YMMV. My level 2 charger cost me nothing. 220v 30amp socket in the garage already. Tesla plugs right in with the included adapter. Electric is not for everyone but I’m baffled by all this misinformation and fear. Same here, but I have 75A service in my garage already. Unfortunately many don't know enough about electric and electric vehicles so they aren't prepared for the caveats of an all electric vehicle. This is also my same issue with just having electric vehicles forced upon the general population. Hell, most of the general population don't know their cars need oil changes ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 Some people in here sound like they think people were trying to put hay in their cars fuel tanks when they first came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 Add $6k for a Level 2 charger. Were they installing a whole new service to your garage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 Some people in here sound like they think people were trying to put hay in their cars fuel tanks when they first came out. How many tried diesel and vice versa. :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 I'm just kickin' around here waiting for dealerships to get enough Prius Primes (or equiv, which aren't many) on the lot that I won't be paying an assload just to have it... it's absolutely the "sweet spot" for my driving needs... round trip commute of only 20 miles (so pure electric on that), but retains the ICE for when I have to take work trips to CBus/PGH/Indy. Meanwhile, wifey gets the Outback for the shite Cleveland winters and any family vacations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted May 3, 2021 Report Share Posted May 3, 2021 Considering the negative product reviews I read all the time where I can clearly see the buyer didn't understand what they were buying, I'm not surprised it's 1 in 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99FLHRCI Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 My charger was $500. YMMV. A level 2 charger requires 240v service. Most homes do not have this available. You will need to hire an electrician or know how to do the wiring. Yes your charger was $500. Now you need a 60A breaker - $50. Now you need wiring. Let's say you are within 100' of your panel. You need 100' of 4/3 Romex - $950. Your $500 charger is already $2000 and you do not have installation or any of the odds and ends you may need yet. Add in the fact that someone buying a $50k car is probably going to have a decent size home and the box may be further away adding to the cost. This is all if your home is able to handle an additional 60A draw on it's current service. Start trying to charge your car while you are cooking dinner and the wife is doing laundry and your current goes up quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99FLHRCI Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 My current travels would put me in a similar situation. The part that I disagree with is the fact that people buy dumb SUV's and trucks as opposed to a very fuel efficient small car. There are plenty of ways to be more fuel efficient with an ICE but people would rather burn gas in a truck then complain about costs. That estimate was on a 21mpg premium fuel car. Pick up a VW Golf at 39 mpg with regular fuel and a brand new cost of $25k and it would take even longer for the break even point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99FLHRCI Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 My level 2 charger cost me nothing. 220v 30amp socket in the garage already. Tesla plugs right in with the included adapter. Electric is not for everyone but I’m baffled by all this misinformation and fear. Cutting down to 30A from 60A reduces you to 22 miles per hour of charge time. That would be 110-132 miles for the 5-6 hour charge window. Combine that with the stated 110 mile minimum daily commute and suddenly, your free level 2 charger will not keep up with the need. The "misinformation" is more of a lack of attention to details and requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 110 miles driven per day puts you in about the top 2-3% of average miles driven per day. You're an edge-ish case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 A 110 mile daily commute is an edge case. Eta: well I guess I'm late to the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99FLHRCI Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 Were they installing a whole new service to your garage? At my residence with a simple 40A sub panel split off from my house that has 100A service, I would require at least new service to my garage. More likely I would need a home upgrade to 200A and then a garage upgrade. Compared to the house I moved out of just a couple years ago that still had knob and tube wiring, screw in fuses and 60A service for the whole home and garage, the current setup is not that bad for cost to setup. Look at wiring history and pre 1950 homes had 30A service, 1950-1965 had 60A and usually could only handle one 240v line (stove or dryer may be using this). The median year for when homes were built in the US is 1974. How many of those pre 1974 homes have not been upgraded or don't have the space for a dedicated 240v 60A circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99FLHRCI Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 110 miles driven per day puts you in about the top 2-3% of average miles driven per day. You're an edge case. And yet longer commutes are becoming more and more common. The average is only 26 miles, however that is up 20% since 1980. Commutes longer than 45 minutes are up 12% in the same time frame. One way 90 minute commutes are up 64% since 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 Yes, people who choose to have unusually long commutes will have a few additional decisions to make. They can buy GM's last ICE vehicle, a 2034 model, and drive it for 10 years, thus delaying all further decisions until 23 years from now. They can choose to move closer to their place of work. Or they can upgrade their shitty house wiring. Seems like there are plenty of options and so the market doesn't need to worry about those folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 A level 2 charger requires 240v service. Most homes do not have this available. You will need to hire an electrician or know how to do the wiring. Yes your charger was $500. Now you need a 60A breaker - $50. Now you need wiring. Let's say you are within 100' of your panel. You need 100' of 4/3 Romex - $950. Your $500 charger is already $2000 and you do not have installation or any of the odds and ends you may need yet. Add in the fact that someone buying a $50k car is probably going to have a decent size home and the box may be further away adding to the cost. This is all if your home is able to handle an additional 60A draw on it's current service. Start trying to charge your car while you are cooking dinner and the wife is doing laundry and your current goes up quickly. Most homes have 240v, maybe not where it's convenient but it IS there. You are also using examples to prove your point rather than considering the possibilities. A friend of mine has an EV, he got an RV cord and plugs his car in to his range outlet since his kitchen is right by his garage. He needed no electrician or expensive parts. He made it work within his budget rather than arguing it simply won't work. That estimate was on a 21mpg premium fuel car. Pick up a VW Golf at 39 mpg with regular fuel and a brand new cost of $25k and it would take even longer for the break even point. My old chevy spark got ~40MPG+ but was $8900 brand new after deals. There are CHEAP ICE cars out there with good gas mileage if that's the primary concern. At my residence with a simple 40A sub panel split off from my house that has 100A service, I would require at least new service to my garage. More likely I would need a home upgrade to 200A and then a garage upgrade. Compared to the house I moved out of just a couple years ago that still had knob and tube wiring, screw in fuses and 60A service for the whole home and garage, the current setup is not that bad for cost to setup. Look at wiring history and pre 1950 homes had 30A service, 1950-1965 had 60A and usually could only handle one 240v line (stove or dryer may be using this). The median year for when homes were built in the US is 1974. How many of those pre 1974 homes have not been upgraded or don't have the space for a dedicated 240v 60A circuit. Electric service upgrades are going to be needed on many homes with or without EV's. Yes, people who choose to have unusually long commutes will have a few additional decisions to make. They can buy GM's last ICE vehicle, a 2034 model, and drive it for 10 years, thus delaying all further decisions until 23 years from now. They can choose to move closer to their place of work. Or they can upgrade their shitty house wiring. Seems like there are plenty of options and so the market doesn't need to worry about those folks. Tech is getting better, charging is getting better. I'd love to see a hybrid that can be forced into all electric mode for every day short driving but can use an ICE for charging or propulsion on long trips when charging isn't readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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