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I am Clay’s last car purchase post on CR…

zeitgeist57

By zeitgeist57,
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zeitgeist57 Newbie

zeitgeist57

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…and it’s a Tesla for my wife. She’s wanted one for a long time and I was looking for the perfect options list. Having free Supercharging for life is starting to make sense with gas going up up up.

 

2014 Model S P85DL. Here’s the ad because I don’t have good pics yet.

 

https://www.findmyelectric.com/listings/2014-model-s-p85dl-81045/

 

Love ya, CR <3

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Geeto67 Apprentice

Geeto67

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so I am curious....were you allowed to keep the options the previous owner paid for? (specifically the Ludicrous mode and tech package). The internet is rife right now with examples of Tesla trying to treat options like smart phone apps or subscription services and shutting them off upon transfer to a new owner and then making you pay for them all over again. It's caused quite a few lawsuits.
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2 Sweet Newbie

2 Sweet

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Awesome, Clay! Usually I find most Teslas kind of boring looking, but this one looks pretty sharp :thumbup:

 

so I am curious....were you allowed to keep the options the previous owner paid for? The internet is rife right now with examples of Tesla trying to treat options like smart phone apps or subscription services and shutting them off upon transfer to a new owner and then making you pay for them all over again. It's caused quite a few lawsuits.

 

Seriously? Jesus Christ. The Tesla universe is so fucked lol

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Geeto67 Apprentice

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It isn't just Tesla. I know BMW is planning it, and I've heard other manufacturers are planning it.

 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/34547/bmw-is-planning-to-sell-heated-seats-and-more-as-a-subscription-no-really

 

Yeah...What Tesla kinda proved is that the electric car culture is smart phone culture, not car culture. With smart phones, when you sell a phone it gets reset back to base spec and then you as the used phone buyer download all the customized apps and subscriptions to tailor it to your needs. Tesla looks at its cars like phones and it's soft options as apps.

 

here is the problem at the heart of the matter: the Monroney Sticker and buyer's guide. Basically, if your options can be revoked that has to be disclosed on the Monroney when the car is sold new. The buyers guide is the monroney for used cars and it lists similar options. So person A buys a new Tesla and spends for something like FSD (auto-drive). When person A sells or trades the car in they think that FSD goes with the car because they weren't warned. The used dealer or second buyer takes the car thinking they have bought this option, only for Tesla to shut it off - thus stealing the value of the car from the used dealer and/or the next buyer. In many cases Tesla doesn't turn if off until after the used dealer discloses the option in the buyer's guide and sells it to the next owner, Because it was sold in the buyer's guide - the dealer is now on the hook for the cost of the option and the dealer now has a cause of action against Tesla.

 

BMW and the other mfg's are going to figure out the legal language needed to disclose this and it looks like the industry is heading to making physical cars some form of base model with options being pay to play customizable or subscription based. In some ways this actually is good for the consumer because other than color choice it means that used car buyers can actually get cars with options they need instead of having to search out specifically optioned vehicles.

 

here are the problems I have with it:

 

- I don't think the mfg's are planning to allow third party development of "options" like smart phones allow third party development of apps. I think this is how they mfg's are going to make up for the revenue lost from selling parts since electric vehicles don't have that many parts and the few they have basically total the vehicle. This gives them a monopoly on car customization and destroys a large part of the aftermarket

 

- Right to repair is going to go away almost overnight since even if you are the most magical coder in the world, the mfg can just brick your car if it determines you tampered with the code without authorization.

 

 

anybody else have thoughts?

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Mallard Newbie

Mallard

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- I don't think the mfg's are planning to allow third party development of "options" like smart phones allow third party development of apps. I think this is how they mfg's are going to make up for the revenue lost from selling parts since electric vehicles don't have that many parts and the few they have basically total the vehicle. This gives them a monopoly on car customization and destroys a large part of the aftermarket

 

 

 

- Right to repair is going to go away almost overnight since even if you are the most magical coder in the world, the mfg can just brick your car if it determines you tampered with the code without authorization.

 

 

 

 

 

anybody else have thoughts?

 

I disagree on some points. A lot of people that have bought Tesla's ARE car enthusiasts, but in many cases it's not their only vehicle, they love the performance (acceleration and handling), and are fed up with traditional dealership experiences. If people just wanted soulless transportation there would be no market for Ludacris or Plaid. People were buying Tesla's instead of BMW 7's and Mercedes S-Class's, and it wasn't for any luxury on the interior.

 

There are some automakers looking to allow outside app development (I think it was Stellantis that made an announcement to this). I assume it will be treated like the Apple App Store where the OEM takes a cut.

 

I dont agree with what Tesla has done with reclaiming features the original owner paid for. Part of the vehicles value is based on how its equipped, especially when you have a $7-10k option like FSD. There's a gray area with something like Clay's vehicle though with lifetime free Supercharging. Since I dont think that's on the Monroney, I think they could treat that as a benefit to the original buyer, like a non-transferable extended warranty or service plan and take it away. It depends on the legal jargon attached to it. Not quite as bad as BMW making heated seats a subscription, but still shady.

 

What you'll definitely see is features like FSD, Supercruise, BlueCruise, etc require a data plan to keep them active. So they will get you on a subscription plan, but it's not the same as charging a second owner $10k for the option all over again.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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Geeto67 Apprentice

Geeto67

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I disagree on some points. A lot of people that have bought Tesla's ARE car enthusiasts, but in many cases it's not their only vehicle, they love the performance (acceleration and handling), and are fed up with traditional dealership experiences. If people just wanted soulless transportation there would be no market for Ludacris or Plaid. People were buying Tesla's instead of BMW 7's and Mercedes S-Class's, and it wasn't for any luxury on the interior.

 

I don't think anybody is disputing that tesla owners are "car people" or that speed sells. I think the mfgs just want to own the revenue stream from the space. The aftermarket will still produce wheels and brake kits and such, but engines/trannies/superchargers/nitrous will see a decline as electrics become more common and what will it be replaced with? There is already a problem with mfgs, warranties, and aftermarket parts - if they gained control over the aftermarket through an app store style setup, then how much of an aftermarket is there really?

 

what I meant by electric car culture is smart phone culture - is that Tesla looks at its cars like rolling smart phones, where as all the established automakers look at electrics as cars first. Because of that Tesla is able to innovate and get adoption by non car people who also want customization and not soulless transportation - afterall, smartphones aren't soulless and their culture is all about personalization and personal expression. The problem with Tesla looking at their cars as giant smart phones is that cars have a ton of consumer protection laws for a lot of reasons (99% of them being the past super shady business practices of mfg's and dealers) and Tesla is actively working on ways to get them to not apply to it's cars.

 

There are some automakers looking to allow outside app development (I think it was Stellantis that made an announcement to this). I assume it will be treated like the Apple App Store where the OEM takes a cut.

 

I am interested in seeing how this plays out. Yes phones are super expensive but they aren't expensive like a car, and there is already a turf war over warranties and jailbreaking in the phone space. I feel like once they start looking at the costs associated with third party and warranty coverage it will do a quick about face.

 

I dont agree with what Tesla has done with reclaiming features the original owner paid for. Part of the vehicles value is based on how its equipped, especially when you have a $7-10k option like FSD. There's a gray area with something like Clay's vehicle though with lifetime free Supercharging. Since I dont think that's on the Monroney, I think they could treat that as a benefit to the original buyer, like a non-transferable extended warranty or service plan and take it away. It depends on the legal jargon attached to it. Not quite as bad as BMW making heated seats a subscription, but still shady.

 

What you'll definitely see is features like FSD, Supercruise, BlueCruise, etc require a data plan to keep them active. So they will get you on a subscription plan, but it's not the same as charging a second owner $10k for the option all over again.

 

I don't think anybody really likes this approach who is a consumer.

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Mallard Newbie

Mallard

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I don't think anybody is disputing that tesla owners are "car people" or that speed sells. I think the mfgs just want to own the revenue stream from the space. The aftermarket will still produce wheels and brake kits and such, but engines/trannies/superchargers/nitrous will see a decline as electrics become more common and what will it be replaced with? There is already a problem with mfgs, warranties, and aftermarket parts - if they gained control over the aftermarket through an app store style setup, then how much of an aftermarket is there really?

 

what I meant by electric car culture is smart phone culture - is that Tesla looks at its cars like rolling smart phones, where as all the established automakers look at electrics as cars first. Because of that Tesla is able to innovate and get adoption by non car people who also want customization and not soulless transportation - afterall, smartphones aren't soulless and their culture is all about personalization and personal expression. The problem with Tesla looking at their cars as giant smart phones is that cars have a ton of consumer protection laws for a lot of reasons (99% of them being the past super shady business practices of mfg's and dealers) and Tesla is actively working on ways to get them to not apply to it's cars.

 

So my comment on apps was less to do with performance mods, and more to do with enabling little value added features with hardware/data available, like Tesla does with security cams, pet modes, fart noises, etc.

 

The reason Tesla is able to treat the car more like a smartphone than a traditional automaker has everything to do with their vehicle electrical architecture than a diverging business plan when compared to traditional automakers. The traditional automakers what to do to same thing, but they are much slower to change due to a combination of legacy implementations and sourcing agreements. The old dogs are catching up though...

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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RyM3rC Newbie

RyM3rC

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we had a guy with a p100d come out to autox once. he was pretty quick, and had plenty of battery to drive a few runs, have a few fun runs at the end and still get home.

 

battery charge was definitely a concern though.

 

it's gonna suck if tesla yanks all the features and lifetime supercharging out from under you, then you get to replace the battery pack shortly therafter.

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zeitgeist57 Newbie

zeitgeist57

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The Free Supercharging is actually an RPO code (SF1) so thankfully that stuck. The P.O. (who was big in the GM 3800 scene as Bucky realized yesterday:lol:) is a huge tech nut who said that YES, if an owner sells/trades their car back to Tesla, some features are disabled. I sat in his driveway in Chicago before I drove it home, FaceTimed my wife and we were able to transfer the Model S over to my wife through Tesla.

 

rWu08Erl.jpg

 

Took the 19” snow tires off and installed lowering links with the 21”s. This is a turrible pic late yesterday but it looks siiiiiick in person.

 

“Ludicrous” and “Ludicrous+” are available, but honestly haven’t done anything hard except for some rolling launches and highway pulls.

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