To the police officers on the site

[shittygsxr]

Props to R1_MP

[RVTPilot]

Oh for sure, I would say the same is true for Bdruggan and others. I'm sympathetic and I don't give attitude when I'm pulled over. However, officers are not lawyers and the system relies heavily on citation revenue. Somewhere therein this became rationalized. Law school is expensive, the people that know it front to back have to charge for use of their knowledge. So they write books and have expensive rates. None of this does any good to the average Joe being ticketed for going with the flow of traffic 75mph on I-71 (for example). An attorney will not be provided for misdemeanors without the threat of jailtime. He will be prosecuted by an intern and an officer that have assumed him guilty and possess years of experience to their advantage. Proving you "reasonable doubt" becomes very difficult when representing yourself in this environment. "Protection" is not the name of the game anymore.

Call me a sidewalk lawyer if you want, it's a forum. I'm a guy with opinions.

You're more than entitled to your opinion. And it's better to have these conversations in a forum, and not a courtroom or holding cell. I have seen - and agree with the sentiment - that bastardizing the laws for the po-po's benefit is bullshit. It happens, and it's happening more frequently in the current state of the economy. I just think it funny when some folks from a community plagued with prejudice against it would so vehemently go after cops, and ones who are members of both communities. But I guess when someone have gotten it for so long, they have a tendancy to lash out when the opportunity presents itself. Short of a Col. Nathan Jessup speach, I know that by and large the cops I know, and I know a few, are good guys, human just like the rest of us.

Fair play to you sir.

[jacknjinx]

THESE COPS HAVE WAY BETTER THINGS TO DO!!! I have ZERO respect for traffic cops! Now before I get a negative response to this hear me out... I can understand being cited for excessive speeding and other things where you actually pose a threat to society, but just cruisin 15 MPH over on a clear sunny day with no traffic... And with all the responses of people who think this is allowed it's not! Not in the ENTIRE state of Ohio! They do it all the time and you can try to fight it in court but to a judge or magistrate it's your word against theirs and who do you think their going to believe?

[OfcMav]

You're more than entitled to your opinion. And it's better to have these conversations in a forum, and not a courtroom or holding cell. I have seen - and agree with the sentiment - that bastardizing the laws for the po-po's benefit is bullshit. It happens, and it's happening more frequently in the current state of the economy. I just think it funny when some folks from a community plagued with prejudice against it would so vehemently go after cops, and ones who are members of both communities. But I guess when someone have gotten it for so long, they have a tendancy to lash out when the opportunity presents itself. Short of a Col. Nathan Jessup speach, I know that by and large the cops I know, and I know a few, are good guys, human just like the rest of us.

Fair play to you sir.

[Likwid]

@jinx (sorry can't quote from my cell): that's where you'd be able to argue you WERE operating at a speed for control.

Speeding laws aren't JUST driving the posted limit, they are operating at a controlled speed... if you got 45 on ice a cop could still ticket you.... I think...

It all comes back to judges and prosecutors taking the cop's word as gold

[OfcMav]

THESE COPS HAVE WAY BETTER THINGS TO DO!!! I have ZERO respect for traffic cops! Now before I get a negative response to this hear me out... I can understand being cited for excessive speeding and other things where you actually pose a threat to society, but just cruisin 15 MPH over on a clear sunny day with no traffic... And with all the responses of people who think this is allowed it's not! Not in the ENTIRE state of Ohio! They do it all the time and you can try to fight it in court but to a judge or magistrate it's your word against theirs and who do you think their going to believe?

- Umm...in some jurisdictions "traffic cops" serve their purpose to their community, if that is one of the issues that the community is having i.e. someone speeding through their neighborhood or excessive speeding on their local roads they are there for your safety and for the safety of others. The purpose of writing traffic citations is to prevent traffic accidents whether its clear to the public or not - most use the citation revenue scapegoating to bitch about their f-up. Now I will also disclaim there are certain jurisdictions that do rely on traffic tickets for extra money because they do not have other sources of income for the municipality...if they didnt rely on ticket revenue they would not be able to function as a department and to respond to calls of service when people are truely in dire need of help - being robbed, burglarized, assaulted, etc etc.

[wrillo]

since we're limited to something like 1 cop bashing thread a month, can I also throw this out there: if speeding is so dangerous, why do LEOs routinely speed by me even when they're not in flashing strobes "I have an emergency" mode?

disclaimer: I'm not a "cop hater", my brother is a cop. Most cops get an A+ in my book. The statement above is not bashing cops for speeding, but the law for being irrelevant

[shittygsxr]

I dont want to give the wrong impression so I will just say it. Cops, I love you guys, I would not trade jobs with you. I couldn't deal with assholes like me all day long and if I had to I wouldn't be very plesent, so I see where some of the attitudes come from. You guys are always there when I need you and only a phone call away, so sometimes it takes two hours for you to arrive but better late than never.

[speedytriple]

The thing I hate the most is the double standard that cops have for each other. I have a strongsville cop three doors down, that at a block party was bragging about how he and his buddies got all f-ed up and got pulled over on the way home. He was so proud that the officer let them wait to be picked up by someone and let them go home. If they were not all police in the car they would have been dragged to jail and given a dui. Same goes for speeding they all let each other off. I once got pulled over back in the squidly days while riding with a cop and two firefighters. We were doing 120 in a 50 by the airport, got nabbed pulled over and were then let go after they flashed there badges, with nothing more then a warning. Guess if you have a badge you are bullet proof?

[jacknjinx]

- Umm...in some jurisdictions "traffic cops" serve their purpose to their community, if that is one of the issues that the community is having i.e. someone speeding through their neighborhood or excessive speeding on their local roads they are there for your safety and for the safety of others. The purpose of writing traffic citations is to prevent traffic accidents whether its clear to the public or not - most use the citation revenue scapegoating to bitch about their f-up. Now I will also disclaim there are certain jurisdictions that do rely on traffic tickets for extra money because they do not have other sources of income for the municipality...if they didnt rely on ticket revenue they would not be able to function as a department and to respond to calls of service when people are truely in dire need of help - being robbed, burglarized, assaulted, etc etc.

I definately agree that in residential neighborhoods and things like that, I should have been more clear that I was aiming that more toward highway... But Townships like Lyndale thats revenue is like 80% from traffic citations shouldnt even exist..

[wrillo]

Guess if you have a badge you are bullet proof?

no, just the cops and only their mid-section

[VMX12C]

So I guess we can expect to see you sitting there with your lights on in the future? If not can you at least make sure that your vehicle is not on pavement?

ORC 4513.10 Lights on parked vehicles.

(A) Except in case of an emergency, whenever a vehicle is parked or stopped upon a roadway open to traffic or a shoulder adjacent thereto, whether attended or unattended, during the times mentioned in section 4513.03 of the Revised Code, such vehicle shall be equipped with one or more lights which shall exhibit a white or amber light on the roadway side visible from a distance of five hundred feet to the front of such vehicle, and a red light visible from a distance of five hundred feet to the rear. No lights need be displayed upon any such vehicle when it is stopped or parked within a municipal corporation where there is sufficient light to reveal any person or substantial object within a distance of five hundred feet upon such highway. Any lighted headlights upon a parked vehicle shall be depressed or dimmed.

(B) Whoever violates this section shall be punished as provided in section 4513.99 of the Revised Code.

Effective Date: 01-01-2004

SHTY,

At least you checked into the law. You're mistaken, but it showed initiative. According to state law, emergency vehicles fall under a different definition than "Motor vehicles" and are exempt from most traffic laws. To answer your question in the same tone as it was asked. Yes, you will see my vehicle parked along side the road with it's lights out. Yes, I am pulled off of the pavement......I have a great spot designed just for this. Yes, if you speed through town at mach three you will be pulled over. Yes, you can fight the ticket.....but be prepared to shell out some extra cash for court costs. I've only ever lost one ticket and that was due to the violator being close friends with the judge. The judge even admitted it to me. Crappy but there.

Spin the wheel and take your chances. Good luck in court.

[wrillo]

SHTY,

At least you checked into the law. You're mistaken, but it showed initiative. According to state law, emergency vehicles fall under a different definition than "Motor vehicles" and are exempt from most traffic laws. To answer your question in the same tone as it was asked. Yes, you will see my vehicle parked along side the road with it's lights out. Yes, I am pulled off of the pavement......I have a great spot designed just for this. Yes, if you speed through town at mach three you will be pulled over. Yes, you can fight the ticket.....but be prepared to shell out some extra cash for court costs. I've only ever lost one ticket and that was due to the violator being close friends with the judge. The judge even admitted it to me. Crappy but there.

Spin the wheel and take your chances. Good luck in court.

this post + your signature makes me want to pee in your cheerios

[VMX12C]

Q: What's the purpose of the law?

A: To protect the public.

If the law being broken is NOT in place to protect the public, then it should be irrelevant.

I get the argument all the time "the law is the law because it's the law"

NO...the law is in place to protect the public...

and I don't blame it ALL on police officers, it's just their job to enforce the law, but they do have the initial authority and discretion of whether a law needs to be enforced at a particular time or in a particular situation.

for example, it's against the law to ride lawnmower on your own property if you've been drinking..but honestly, what cop is going to persue that? Who is in danger? probably NOBODY...

I just wish police officers would worry less about quotas (whether implied or quantified) and more about honestly protecting the public.

Most laws are in place for the reason of protecting the public. You argue that speeding laws do not protect the public? Most traffic crashes are due to excessive speed of the offender. The person who was struck by the speeding offender through no fault of their own now has a financial burden placed upon them.....if not actual injury. This is no harm? That is why speed limit laws are in place....not as you obviously believe to generate revenue. Quotas are a fabrication of the liberal media. They do not exist. It is illegal to have a quota. Now productivity on the other hand is different. If I have an officer out for 8 hours and he doesn't pull over anyone for speeding....or other offenses, he's plain not doing his job. It's not a quota, but at some point neglect of duty will become an issue.

If you don't want a ticket, slow down. Simple as that.

Peace.

[bdruggan10r]

Just in case everyone is Not aware of this.

The police work for US. our tax dollars pay their salary.

They are hired to serve and protect the people.

But have you noticed instead of serving and protecting,

the system is being more and more designed to prey on the public.

New laws are designed, not for our safety, but to figure out ways for government to increase their revenue from us.

And the police departments want to give us tickets for any shit they can to increase their department revenue, its bullshit.

How do you feel knowing the police departments primary objective now is to prey on the public and issue tickets to increase their deparments revenue, and this seems to be pretty much the standard across the board now days.

Monies from citations go into general funds, not into departmental funds. So, error on your part.

As for lights on or off, there is NO Ohio Revised Code and NO Municipal Ordinace that says you have to have any lights on when running stationary radar. There may be a departmental policy that dicatates that, but no laws are in place, currenlty, for that.

We all have jobs to do. Part, and I mean just a small part of my job, is traffic enforcement. The rest is the fun part.

[wrillo]

this post + your signature makes me want to pee in your cheerios

Okay I thought about the above post and thats really mean. What I should have said is:

Your post comes off with the "I'll give you a ticket because I can" mentality. That type of things is what we're all complaining about. The ticket has nothing to do with being safe or protecting us and those around us.

[V4junkie]

Most laws are in place for the reason of protecting the public. You argue that speeding laws do not protect the public? Most traffic crashes are due to excessive speed of the offender.

What? Show me a recent study that says anything of the sort.

Here's one that didn't:

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2627.asp

[DLN1223]

since we're limited to something like 1 cop bashing thread a month, can I also throw this out there: if speeding is so dangerous, why do LEOs routinely speed by me even when they're not in flashing strobes "I have an emergency" mode?

disclaimer: I'm not a "cop hater", my brother is a cop. Most cops get an A+ in my book. The statement above is not bashing cops for speeding, but the law for being irrelevant

Not every call is a lights and siren emergency run or code 3 around here.

They could be going code 2 emergency no lights and sirens.

Lights and sirens is kind of an alarm clock to criminals, here they come lets get out of here.

Or they could just be violating the traffic laws cause they "can"

[bdruggan10r]

Kind of off topic but I do have a question.

In all honesty. If you will be so kind.

Do you or your fellow officers frequent internet websites, like this one here, to find route plans to mark and patrol the route and pull over riders you are convinced will be there and speeding?

I know it's the web and a honest answer is doubtful. Anyways what you got?

I can see going to some stunter forums to stalk them. Due to the fact that many of the times they are putting many people in danger by doing stunts in traffic in order to be scene and get attention. But not a forum like this. Call me crazy but I think you all should have better shit to do. Like pull over drunks that go to the same bar everyday and drive home drunk everyday without a care in the world.

That would be pretty lame. I come here because I like the ride. Hopefully Recon can vouche for me.

[VMX12C]

What? Show me a recent study that says anything of the sort.

Here's one that didn't:

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2627.asp

I normally don't get my facts from a liberal newspaper.

Facts for the year 2007 from the Ohio Department of Transportation: (These are the latest ones published. I will update this when the 2008 and 2009 FACTS are published.)

Motorist in Error Fatal % of Total Fatals Injury Property Damage Total

Unsafe Speed 165 14.2 % 5,262 8,756 14,392

In 2007 Failure to control actually superceeded Unsafe Speed at 15.8 % which is 20 more crashes.

Speeding usually causes Failure to Control as a precipitating event.

You are welcome to check the statistic for yourself. These are ONLY fatality crashes.....not ALL crashes. Even at that 14 thousand crashes due to excessive speed is a very large number.

[magley64]

Most laws are in place for the reason of protecting the public. You argue that speeding laws do not protect the public?

in some situations, sure.... If someone is blasting through a school zone at 3:00, they are certainly endangering the public. But the majority of the situations I've personally been cited for, there was nobody in danger. I was nominally over the posted speed, and clearly under control on a clear day with no traffic.

Most traffic crashes are due to excessive speed of the offender.

I, too would like to see some data to this effect...I've seen data that suggests otherwise.

EDIT: you call 14.2% "Most"???? honestly?

The person who was struck by the speeding offender through no fault of their own now has a financial burden placed upon them.....if not actual injury. This is no harm?

IF such a collision occours, ohio has legislation in place that requires everyone to be insured through liability by state minimum levels, so if i hit somebody, my insurance pays them.

That is why speed limit laws are in place....not as you obviously believe to generate revenue. Quotas are a fabrication of the liberal media. They do not exist. It is illegal to have a quota. Now productivity on the other hand is different. If I have an officer out for 8 hours and he doesn't pull over anyone for speeding....or other offenses, he's plain not doing his job. It's not a quota, but at some point neglect of duty will become an issue.

AKA...IMPLIED quota

If you don't want a ticket, slow down. Simple as that.

Peace.

sure... it's that simple, unless you have some other bullsh*t reason for pulling me over..."broken license plate light", i have 2, 1 is plenty to illuminate the tag, get over it.

I'm not saying all cops are asshats or anything of the sort...but i think many have lost focus of their INTENT.

[wrillo]

Not every call is a lights and siren emergency run or code 3 around here.

They could be going code 2 emergency no lights and sirens.

Lights and sirens is kind of an alarm clock to criminals, here they come lets get out of here.

Or they could just be violating the traffic laws cause they "can"

Lets break it down:

1 - either they need to get there fast

2 - they can drive the speed limit like everyone else

a - lights and siren

b - no lights or siren

So 1a and 2b are acceptable

The whole point of the lights and siren are for safety of those around the cop. He acknowledges he is driving above the "safety" limit, and therefore needs to have his safety lights and siren on to warn others of this wreckless driving.

SO, there should never be a case of 1b or 2a

[shittygsxr]

SHTY,

At least you checked into the law. You're mistaken, but it showed initiative. According to state law, emergency vehicles fall under a different definition than "Motor vehicles" and are exempt from most traffic laws. To answer your question in the same tone as it was asked. Yes, you will see my vehicle parked along side the road with it's lights out. Yes, I am pulled off of the pavement......I have a great spot designed just for this. Yes, if you speed through town at mach three you will be pulled over. Yes, you can fight the ticket.....but be prepared to shell out some extra cash for court costs. I've only ever lost one ticket and that was due to the violator being close friends with the judge. The judge even admitted it to me. Crappy but there.

Spin the wheel and take your chances. Good luck in court.

You are right there are lots of exceptions for emergency vehicles those exceptions usually only apply when they are responding to an emergency call and have their lights on I did bold one line in the following ORC and it is a pretty standard disclaimer.

Since you by your own admission pull off of the pavement, out of what could be the path of a vehicle in distress that may have to exit the road quickly you are doing nothing wrong. You are not putting anyones safety at risk and I applaud that.

The cops on the shoulder of the highway with their lights off and engines running have some BIG HUGE NUTZ that is scary, it would have to suck to get a blow out and to pull off to the side quickly only to smash into a police cruiser and kill a cop.

4511.041 Exceptions to traffic rules for emergency or public safety vehicle responding to emergency call.

Sections 4511.12, 4511.13, 4511.131, 4511.132, 4511.14, 4511.15, 4511.202, 4511.21, 4511.211, 4511.22, 4511.23, 4511.25, 4511.26, 4511.27, 4511.28, 4511.29, 4511.30, 4511.31, 4511.32, 4511.33, 4511.34, 4511.35, 4511.36, 4511.37, 4511.38, 4511.39, 4511.40, 4511.41, 4511.42, 4511.43, 4511.431, 4511.432, 4511.44, 4511.441, 4511.57, 4511.58, 4511.59, 4511.60, 4511.61, 4511.62, 4511.66, 4511.68, 4511.681, and 4511.69 of the Revised Code do not apply to the driver of an emergency vehicle or public safety vehicle if the emergency vehicle or public safety vehicle is responding to an emergency call, is equipped with and displaying at least one flashing, rotating, or oscillating light visible under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of five hundred feet to the front of the vehicle and if the driver of the vehicle is giving an audible signal by siren, exhaust whistle, or bell. This section does not relieve the driver of an emergency vehicle or public safety vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons and property upon the highway.

Effective Date: 05-20-1993

[max power]

Okay I thought about the above post and thats really mean. What I should have said is:

Your post comes off with the "I'll give you a ticket because I can" mentality. That type of things is what we're all complaining about. The ticket has nothing to do with being safe or protecting us and those around us.

You had it right the 1st time. His sig reeks of douchebaggerie.

[V4junkie]

I normally don't get my facts from a liberal newspaper.

Facts for the year 2007 from the Ohio Department of Transportation: (These are the latest ones published. I will update this when the 2008 and 2009 FACTS are published.)

This was at the bottom of said "liberal" article.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2008/us-crashcause.pdf

Stating that failure to control is a direct result of excessive speed is a gross generalization. Given the lack of driver skill and training in this country over-correcting and/or driver distraction is a far more likely cause. However, that wouldn't support your argument and you've made approximately 0 concessions thus far, so stick to your guns and don't get all "liberal" on me now. I handle hundreds of Auto Claims per week, findings pass through us, I get to see cause-effect as much as anyone. It makes for a large sample of accidents. I can't agree with that opinion based on what I see.