Likwid Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 I put Seafoam in my tank every month or so... seems to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 http://autos.aol.com/article/does-gas-go-badDoes gasoline really go "bad" if you leave it unused for a period of time? Some people are convinced this is just another urban legend, and that people who worry about "old gas" and spend money on fuel stabilizer are wasting psychic energy as well as cash.But in fact, gasoline can degrade over time. That can lead to a number of problems, ranging from hard starting, to rough running, to no starting at all.Here's WhyUnlike crude oil, gasoline is a highly refined product brewed to a certain chemical composition with very specific characteristics. One characteristic of gas is volatility, a term used to describe how easily and under what conditions the gas vaporizes so it can be efficiently burned in your car's engine.The most highly volatile components in gasoline also tend to evaporate over time. As they do, the remaining fuel's volatility and ability to combust properly degrades. The less volatile the fuel, the less effectively it burns in your engine. The result is diminished engine performance. Your engine may still start and run, but it probably won't run as well.The good news is, once the old gas has been consumed and the tank is topped off with fresh fuel, the problem should cure itself. Evaporation of volatile compounds can be limited by making sure the gas cap is secured tightly. For the same reason, be sure all portable gas containers are sealed tightly as well.A More Serious Problem: OxidationHydrocarbons in the gas react with oxygen to produce new compounds that eventually change the chemical composition of the fuel. This leads to gum and varnish deposits in the fuel system.These deposits and impurities can clog up gas lines and filters, as well the small orifices in a carburetor and the even smaller orifices in a fuel injector. Removing these deposits can be expensive and your vehicle may not run at all or run very poorly until they are removed.Water ContaminationCondensation can form inside your gas tank and lines from heat cycling. Fuels such as E85, which have a high concentration of ethanol alcohol, may be even more susceptible to water contamination, as ethanol likes to draw moisture out of the surrounding air.Water contamination can be a problem at gas stations with light traffic due to a slightly different kind of heat cycling. The underground storage tanks experience increases and decreases in temperature. This can cause moisture to form and contaminate the fuel. When you fill up at such a station, you're pumping in the water along with the gas. Such low-traffic stations may also have other contaminants in their underground storage tanks, such as rust. They are best avoided when possible.Water, of course, does not work too well as a fuel in an internal combustion engine.It will cause hard starting and rough running until it's purged from the system. It can also contribute to internal rusting of the gas lines and tank. The resultant scale and small particles can create a true nightmare, sometimes requiring the replacement of the gas lines and tank at considerable expense.You can reduce the chances of water contamination by keeping your car's gas tank as close to full as possible, especially if the vehicle is going to be left idle for an extended period.How Do You Identify Bad Gas?One way is to eyeball it. Oxidized fuel often turns darker over time and may even smell sour. You can check stored gasoline by pouring some into a clear glass container and comparing it side-by-side with known fresh gasoline. If your old sample looks noticeably darker than the fresh gas, you have strong evidence the gas has gone bad.How Long Does it Take for Gas to Go Bad?That depends on a number of factors. For one, it's hard to know how old the gas you just bought actually is. It may be fresh from the refinery, or it may be a month old already by the time you top off your tank. Some gasoline is mixed with better or more oxidation inhibitors than others.It's a good rule of thumb to avoid leaving gas in your tank or a storage container for more than a coupe of months, if you can avoid it.And if You Can't?If you know gas will sit in your tank or a storage container for a couple months, then it's a wise move to buy some fuel system stabilizer and mix it in with the gasoline. Do it before you put the vehicle into long-term storage or before leaving your lawn equipment fuel containers sitting for the winter. The stabilizer helps prevent oxidation, the biggie that can turn gas into garbage that gunks up your system and leads to expensive repair work.Using fuel system stabilizer for extended storage is preferable to draining the tank and leaving the system dry. This can cause rubber hoses, gaskets and seals to dry-rot and crack, possibly leading to leaks and even a fire. In addition, a dry system can expose the insides of metal fuel lines and your gas tank to air and moisture, which can lead to or accelerate the formation of rust.Fuel system stabilizer is not a cure-all and it doesn't last forever. It must be mixed with fresh gas before the vehicle is stored, not added to already old gas. It can slow down the oxidation process and keep gas fresh for as long as 12 to15 months. If you're going to leave the vehicle parked for longer than that, you may want to drain the tank and refill with fresh fuel before returning the vehicle to service. 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Casper Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/8.6 What is "stale" fuel, and should I use it?"Stale" fuel is caused by improper storage, and usually smells sour. The gasoline has been allowed to get warm, thus catalysing olefin decomposition reactions, and perhaps also losing volatile material in unsealed containers. Such fuel will tend to rapidly form gums, and will usually have a significant reduction in octane rating. The fuel can be used by blending with twice the volume of new gasoline, but the blended fuel should be used immediately, otherwise teh old fuel will catalyse rapid decomposition of the new, resulting in even larger quantities of stale fuel. Some stale fuels can drop several octane numbers, so be generous with the dilution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GasolineWhen gasoline is left for a period of time, gums and varnishes may build up and precipitate in the gasoline, causing "stale fuel". This will cause gums to build up in the fuel tank, lines, and carburetor or fuel injection components making it harder to start the engine. Motor gasoline may be stored up to 60 days in an approved container. If it is to be stored for a longer period of time, a fuel stabilizer may be used. This will extend the life of the fuel to about 1–2 years, and keep it fresh for the next uses. Fuel stabilizer is commonly used for small engines such as lawnmower and tractor engines to promote quicker and more reliable starting. Users have been advised to keep gasoline containers and tanks more than half full and properly capped to reduce air exposure, to avoid storage at high temperatures, to run an engine for ten minutes to circulate the stabilizer through all components prior to storage, and to run the engine at intervals to purge stale fuel from the carburetor. Gummy, sticky resin deposits result from oxidative degradation of gasoline. This degradation can be prevented through the use of antioxidants such as phenylenediamines, alkylenediamines (diethylenetriamine, triethylenetetramine, etc), and alkylamines (diethylamine, tributylamine, ethylamine). Other useful additives include gum inhibitors such as N-substituted alkylaminophenols and colour stabilizers such as N-(2-aminoethyl)piperazine, N,N-diethylhydroxylamine, and triethylenetetramine. Improvements in refinery techniques have generally reduced the reliance on the catalytically or thermally cracked stocks most susceptible to oxidation. Gasoline containing acidic contaminants such as naphthenic acids can be addressed with additives including strongly basic organo-amines such as N,N-diethylhydroxylamine, preventing metal corrosion and breakdown of other antioxidant additives due to acidity. Hydrocarbons with a bromine number of 10 or above can be protected with the combination of unhindered or partially hindered phenols and oil soluble strong amine bases such as monoethanolamine, N-(2-aminoethyl)piperazine, cyclohexylamine, 1,3-cyclohexane-bis(methylamine), 2,5-dimethylaniline, 2,6-dimethylaniline, diethylenetriamine and triethylenetetramine. "Stale" gasoline can be detected by a colorimetric enzymatic test for organic peroxides produced by oxidation of the gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likwid Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Casper, stop making up stuff and posting it on other websites so you can use examples here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 I'm with Sam.1) Full of fuel2) Correct PSI in tires3) Pull Battery(ies) and stick in the house to keep warm4) Cover exhaust with socks and plastic bags5) Cover with bike cover until springThey just sit on the sidestand all winter long in my attached garage on the concrete. Then I change the oil in the spring after 1 or 2 rides. I haven't had any issues yet.Same here, except I started using the Stabil.And mine is outside for the Winter. Roughly Dec 1st to March 1st.No problems, other than steel parts rust faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Oil, gasoline, and all other volatiles have a shelf life. And that is sealed in the bottle or can. Plastics and rubber have shelf life also. They all go bad soon enough. Heck even a rock has a shelf life, not that we care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost1888 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Seafoam in a full tank of gas with trickle charger on battery, bike on the rear stand parked on foam underlayment I had left over from doing the floors. All in a garage that's heated when I'm out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likwid Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Seafoam in a full tank of gas with trickle charger on battery, bike on the rear stand parked on foam underlayment I had left over from doing the floors. All in a garage that's heated when I'm out there.I just bought a bike lift recently, I've been told leaving it raised with weight on it is not a good idea, so I'm going to grab some carpet remnants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomking Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 I usually keep my bike in my bedroom for the winter.....my wife gets horny when she smells exaust and gasoline fumes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 I usually keep my bike in my bedroom for the winter.....my wife gets horny when she smells exaust and gasoline fumes...Lucky man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost1888 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 I just bought a bike lift recently, I've been told leaving it raised with weight on it is not a good idea, so I'm going to grab some carpet remnants.I've been told a lot of things. One of these days I'll get a front triple stand but until then this is what I do and it's staying that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Just never uses seafoam in a gas tank that isn't sealed. Alcohol attracts water from the air inside the tank and will make your fuel worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost1888 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Seafoam from what I understand is not alcohol based like stabil.Sea Foam Uses in FuelsSea Foam Motor Treatment #’s SF-16 (16 ounce), SF-128 (gallon container) andSF-55 (a 55 gallon drum) is used as a fuel additive in Gasoline, Ethanol Blends, Gas/oil mixes & ALL Diesel fuels. This includes all brands and grades of available fuels.When added to these fuels, Sea Foam Motor Treatment was specifically designed to safely do five (5) important tasks for you. They are:1.Lubricates upper cylinders, fuel pumps, turbochargers, drawn-through superchargers, and related fuel system and exhaust system components. Sea Foam Motor Treatment is a 100% blended petroleum product. That means Sea Foam is OIL, so adding Sea Foam to ANY fuel adds lubricity to fuel system components and upper cylinder areas of your engine.2.Dries fuel system moisture. Sea Foam Motor Treatment contains an oil component that acts as a co-solvent to effectively neutralize moisture when Sea Foam Motor Treatment is added to any of the above-listed fuels. This helps to eliminate moisture-related problems like diesel fuel gelling and rough idling.3.Cleans gum & varnish fuel residues from fuel system components. Sea Foam Motor Treatment contains an oil-based high-detergent cleaner that liquefies old fuel residue and allows the contaminants to be filtered out in the manner designed by the engine manufacturer.4.Cleans carbon deposits from combustion chamber. Sea Foam Motor Treatment’s exclusive formula is blended specifically to clean carbon out of the engine as the engine is run. This is accomplished by our cleaning oil formula described in #3 above, which dissolves the old sticky fuel residue that holds the carbon particles that accumulate over time. Once the varnish residue is liquefied, the carbon particles are free to be safely blown out of the engine through the exhaust system.5.Stabilizes fuel. Sea Foam Motor Treatment adds volatility to fuel and slows down the rate at which that fuel loses its ability to properly burn. When added to fuel and the fuel is in properly sealed containers or fuel systems, Sea Foam Motor Treatment is a fuel stabilizer for up to 2 years. Always run the engine for a long enough period of time to assure the Sea Foam Motor treatment has been drawn through the entire system fuel system for complete protection.Technical Services DepartmentSea Foam Sales CompanyUpdated May, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBUSA Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 http://autos.aol.com/article/does-gas-go-badhttp://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GasolineWow, I can give you just as many reports that say just the opposite but what's the point? Does gasoline go bad? Yes, but it takes YEARS not weeks or even months. You do what works for you. It's your money that you are wasting on Sta-bil and other like products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) Are yours as credible as Wiki? I keeeeeeeed I keeeeeeeeedGas does go bad - but not over the 4-5 months it sits in your garage. The key is keeping moisture out (i.e. sealed container), which will also prevent oxidation. I suppose the bottom line is whatever helps you sleep at night.I haven't had any issues with how I do things, so I'm not changing my ways until I do. Edited September 21, 2009 by JRMMiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 I don't have critters, so I've never put anything over pipe or airbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Wow, I can give you just as many reports that say just the opposite but what's the point? Does gasoline go bad? Yes, but it takes YEARS not weeks or even months. You do what works for you. It's your money that you are wasting on Sta-bil and other like products.Post up your reports. I searched and couldn't find anything. Everything I've found says gas starts to deteriorate starting in as little as 14 days after it is exposed to oxygen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumbtzz Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 lol damn i posted this about 6 hours ago and already 4 pages of replies....this is probably the best forum im a member of, thank you guys a lot. unfortunately the last 3 pages have been arguments over fuel treatment...well ill settle this, i plan on using it. if i notice any problems at all, next year i wont. that simple.so back to the thread topic...i never thought to put a little spritz of wd40 inside and cover my exhaust which is a great idea since the temp in winter flexes so much and i get a lot of spiders and other bugs around here so ill definately be doing that, i plan to get some cheap ass adjustable stands because if a buddy with a kawi needs to use them for some reason im a sharing type of person. but onto this trickle charger issue...is the battery tender jr any good? anyone have a cheap/better alternative (under $75) ?any other major/minor things you guys have picked up on that would make the storing/starting after storing flow better?seriously thanks again all of you guys, its great to get so many responses in such a short amount of time....money is tight for me so i plan to start getting whatever i can afford starting now before its too late...also if anyone has any of these things (stands, trickle chargers, etc.) that im going to need for sale send me a pm...otherwise im probably just going to keep makin runs to iron pony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APCh8r Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Yes that battery tender jr will be just fine for winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj1 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) Post up your reports. I searched and couldn't find anything. Everything I've found says gas starts to deteriorate starting in as little as 14 days after it is exposed to oxygen.http://www.grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_maintenance_protect_equipment_clean/Now I realize the article is talking about grounds keeping... but i would think the same principles would apply Edited September 21, 2009 by jj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj1 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 seriously thanks again all of you guys, its great to get so many responses in such a short amount of time....money is tight for me so i plan to start getting whatever i can afford starting now before its too late...also if anyone has any of these things (stands, trickle chargers, etc.) that im going to need for sale send me a pm...otherwise im probably just going to keep makin runs to iron pony Well I was at the IP just a little bit ago... saw rear stands for $50, and a front for bout $80... and they have a bunch of the Battery tender Jr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumbtzz Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Yes that battery tender jr will be just fine for winter.awesome thanksWell I was at the IP just a little bit ago... saw rear stands for $50, and a front for bout $80... and they have a bunch of the Battery tender Jryea the battery tender jr i can pretty much get anywhere...roush is like 20 min from me its the stands that are goin to hit me anywhere but the IP im sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likwid Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 awesome thanksyea the battery tender jr i can pretty much get anywhere...roush is like 20 min from me its the stands that are goin to hit me anywhere but the IP im surelol, well I googled for making your own battery tender and this came uphttp://www.ohio-riders.net/showthread.php?t=21220 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumbtzz Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 lol, well I googled for making your own battery tender and this came uphttp://www.ohio-riders.net/showthread.php?t=21220hahaha...well i fuck with wiring all day at work...i would SO rather pay around 30 bucks out the door for the battery tender jr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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