2010 Mid-Ohio Schedule

[APCh8r]

Grattan is a great track and STT has atleast one event if not more a month up there. Bluegrass is in discussion with another bank to get the funding to finish the track. Atleast that is what I read on their website...Just be patient, no point in getting all worked up anyways till it is done. I know it is winter and everyone is getting exciting, but no reason for people to get upset about it. I would definitely recommend checking out grattan. They are also doing resurfacing up there the next three off season which will help to improve it. Gingerman is also putting an expansion on their track so that should be a nice change.

[c7fx]

yes! i was so dumbfounded by the wide range of skill in intermediate from people who think they are good enough to ride, its downright scary! so glad i got the bump to A group.

on a sad note, not sure if i'll be riding at all this coming season

Whats up Nate? That would be truly sad news

[natedogg624]

depends on school and internships, if everything goes to plan (which ill make damn sure it does) ill be in socal or nyc in three or four months from now.

[madcat6183]

Justin/Apch,

Im thinking Saturday, June 12 (Max-Time Twilight) as a birthday present to myself. And if Bluegrass fails, then 1 more day at Mid O too. After they dropped STT though Im not going to spend too much $$ up there. I've never got along with the owner, since I worked out there in my internship, and I wanna hit Grattan this season too.

Nick,

Im still talking to that dude about the 636 on Wera. Text/PM me. Bikes in NC but if it's not sold by mid Jan/Feb, I ll own it.

[APCh8r]

Justin/Apch,

Im thinking Saturday, June 12 (Max-Time Twilight) as a birthday present to myself. And if Bluegrass fails, then 1 more day at Mid O too. After they dropped STT though Im not going to spend too much $$ up there. I've never got along with the owner, since I worked out there in my internship, and I wanna hit Grattan this season too.

Nick,

Im still talking to that dude about the 636 on Wera. Text/PM me. Bikes in NC but if it's not sold by mid Jan/Feb, I ll own it.

Sounds good, check your phone sir.

[gixxie750]

I've heard Mid Ohio is a good track and Grattan, or maybe it was Gingerman, sucks dick. Can anyone speak to Mid Ohio "A2A" novice track instruction style?

A2A is helping mid-oh get their program up and running. I am a track coach for mid-oh and their novice day is run like a class. They pair people up with instructors and run riding drills each session. After each session you have classroom time to talk about the sessions ans talk about the drills for ur next session. 2010 will be a great year up at mid ohio and I cant wait for it to kick off!

[rusty]

A2A is helping mid-oh get their program up and running. I am a track coach for mid-oh and their novice day is run like a class. They pair people up with instructors and run riding drills each session. After each session you have classroom time to talk about the sessions ans talk about the drills for ur next session. 2010 will be a great year up at mid ohio and I cant wait for it to kick off!

only bad thing abouth mid ohio ,they dont have the balls tell somebody who not belong to I or A go to lower level.they dont want offend anybody.

since mid ohio start run the track themself its more dangerous ride in I or A level.you should keep track on people and not take their word how good they are,something like NESBA do.

[justin0469]

Is there 2 day novice events or just single day novice events at mid ohio?

[redkow97]

only bad thing abouth mid ohio ,they dont have the balls tell somebody who not belong to I or A go to lower level.they dont want offend anybody.

since mid ohio start run the track themself its more dangerous ride in I or A level.you should keep track on people and not take their word how good they are,something like NESBA do.

That's the primary reason I ride with NESBA more often than not. when I'm in their "I" group, I know I can trust the other riders. Plus it was a real accomplishment to be bumped up from "B" group. If I know the track, I ride "A" with STT because there are so many asshats in their "I" group who are off line and unpredictable.

I doubt STT, Mid-Ohio, or any other org who lets you choose your group cares about offending anyone, but they don't want to lose money on having an empty "A" group. In a perfect world, I suppose you'd just let the first 120 people register, and then do your best to determine who the fastest 40 and slowest 40 were; then call the fast guys "A" group, the slow guys "B" group, and everyone else is left in "I."

there would still be the possibility for people to be 'over their head' in "I" or "A," but it seems like the best compromise to safe riding and not losing money on a half-empty "A" group, the way NESBA often does...

[Moto-Brian]

That's the primary reason I ride with NESBA more often than not. when I'm in their "I" group, I know I can trust the other riders. Plus it was a real accomplishment to be bumped up from "B" group. If I know the track, I ride "A" with STT because there are so many asshats in their "I" group who are off line and unpredictable.

I doubt STT, Mid-Ohio, or any other org who lets you choose your group cares about offending anyone, but they don't want to lose money on having an empty "A" group. In a perfect world, I suppose you'd just let the first 120 people register, and then do your best to determine who the fastest 40 and slowest 40 were; then call the fast guys "A" group, the slow guys "B" group, and everyone else is left in "I."

there would still be the possibility for people to be 'over their head' in "I" or "A," but it seems like the best compromise to safe riding and not losing money on a half-empty "A" group, the way NESBA often does...

I'm a little confused now with your responses. I understand you are a NESBA fan and I appreciate that. However, to make comments like asshats and such is pure stupidity. I suggest you come to one of our events and let us see what you are so concerned over.

Intermediate group is obviously the most extreme in terms of ability level. Including NESBA. The fact is that beginners will jump early and there will be advanced riders who should jump, but do not.

We are VERY proactive to that regard and move people when need be. My suggestion is that if you are as fast as you claim you are and your ability is as high as you feel it is, why is it that you are not A material for NESBA?

The fact of the matter is that we use a self evaluation policy. Sometimes that isn't the greatest thing, but to call riders in "I" group asshats is ridiculous. Come to one of the events I am running or at and I can show you how much of an asshat you can made to look like. Calling our customers that is ignorant and not fair at all. I am sure there are PLENTY of riders I can pull from the I group that can show you a thing or two.

One thing to also remember while you are bashing STT is that we do not make Advanced so extreme to get into. NESBA is VERY selective on who they allow in A group that you tend to get faster guys in I that shouldn't be in there. That makes I very intimidating and rough for the Novice rider stepping up. What we allow is a group that is friendly for all levels. I can attest for our abilities in each group. While I agree that sometimes the self evaluation is something that isn't the best thing at times - plenty of A group guys that should be in I or I group guys that need to be in N or A... But the fact is that we give MUCH more personal attention and more coaching. That is proof in the fact of our return customer % and the fact that STT is still going strong and doing well vs the other orgs. Customers drive our company like everyone else out there. That is the proof in the pudding.

I also want to note that while I feel some of our customers shouldn't be in the groups they sign up for at times, we can help get them there, we can assist them to the point they will excel and for sure, we DO NOT feel any customers are asshats or in any manner will we refer to them in a derogatory manner. We also will not put up with people that are customers that talk nor act out in such fashions towards others.

On a final note, there's a lot of mis-information being stated here and to allow that is not fair. We do not worry about offending people. Trust me when I say that I have upset a few customers when moving them down a level. We preach safety. Safety is peak on our list and we will remove or move riders as needed if it warrants it. We've done it quite a bit, but what I have found more advantageous is to take those riders and help them get better. Show them things and assist them to excel. But, at times, pride gets in the way and riders get pissed when moved. It's happened on numerous occasions. TRUSSSST me...

[rusty]

my comment was not on stt ,but on mid ohio.they worry abouth people not getting offendet,so they come in back.last season two guys go home after first session ,because people make pass on them.

[Moto-Brian]

my comment was not on stt ,but on mid ohio.they worry abouth people not getting offendet,so they come in back.last season two guys go home after first session ,because people make pass on them.

Rusty-

I wasn't referring to anything you stated. I got upset with the asshat comments and the fictional/blurred reality that has been expressed.

You are all good with me...

[rusty]

so thats mean free track day for me?

[redkow97]

Intermediate group is obviously the most extreme in terms of ability level. Including NESBA. The fact is that beginners will jump early and there will be advanced riders who should jump, but do not.

While I agree that "I" group has the broadest range of skill with STT, I would contend that NESBA's policy creates an environment where their "B" group to has a greater range than "I" and "A." In the vast majority of cases, nearly everyone in NESBA's "I" and "A" groups have been 'approved' by no less than 2 control riders. It is possible to register directly into "I" group, but I don't believe it's common. To register directly into Advanced, you must have an expert race license, or be bumped from Intermediate.

I apologize for using the term "asshats." That is by no means my feeling toward the majority of STT Intermediate riders, but a few bad apples can spoil the bunch.

My first trackday was with NESBA, and I did a full weekend with STT two weeks later. Even so, being that NESBA was my first TD experience, that has become my basis for comparison. in the 3 or 4 "I" days I've done with STT, there have definitely been riders in "I" group who would be mid-pack "B" riders with NESBA. That doesn't make them bad people, or asshats, but it's not what I was used to for an "intermediate" pace. I spent an entire season (roughly 12 trackdays total) earning my way into NESBA's "I" group. that first weekend with STT (my 3rd and 4th trackday ever), STT coaches were telling me to register in "I" for the following day.

Having learned that lesson, I've adjusted and I know to register in Advanced if i'm riding with STT at a track where I know my way around pretty well.

aside from being a little peeved about wasting $35 on the Bluegrass debacle, I have absolutely nothing against STT, but I do think some of their policies could be improved. The fact that I disagree doesn't make me right and STT wrong, but there are certainly valid points to be made on both sides of most debates.

I would absolutely ride with STT again, but I think the differences between orgs are quite real, and worth knowing for those who haven't done a trackday before. I'm not telling anyone "don't ride with STT." quite the contrary for first-timers. It's definitely a less frenetic learning environment.

[Cheech]

Well, alls I know is if there's a beginner group with training wheels you bolt to the swingarm, that's probably where I belong...

[redkow97]

We do not worry about offending people.

i never said you did... quite the opposite:

I doubt STT, Mid-Ohio, or any other org who lets you choose your group cares about offending anyone, but they don't want to lose money on having an empty "A" group.

STT is a business. I can appreciate that. filling the "A" group is better business than leaving 10 spots empty because getting into "A" group is difficult.

NESBA isn't a business. They absolutely take a financial hit on days where "A" group is half-full. But the fact that they only have to break-even means that they can be picky about who is really at "A" pace, and "I" pace. That helps prevent people from ever registering into a spot where they're grossly under pace, and prevents the awkward/angry encounters you describe.

If you consider that "bashing" STT, then I'm sorry, but I don't see it as anything more than a factual difference. The problem isn't with STT or NESBA as much as it's with people's fragile egos.

[redkow97]

Rusty-

I wasn't referring to anything you stated. I got upset with the asshat comments and the fictional/blurred reality that has been expressed.

You are all good with me...

I'll apologize directly for the asshat comment. That was a poor generalization that I shouldn't have made. I'll rephrase and say that it's not un-common to find riders in STT's "I" group who would still be in NESBA's "B" group. That does not make them asshats, or bad people, or bad riders - it's just a generalized comparison that i feel has been accurate in my experience. YMMV.

[gixxie750]

Well IMO there is almost no way to organize people by class. I like Nesba's aproach for sure,but they are able to do that and thats great. STT days are also nice for riders because on a given day people can be faster or slower depending on many factors. This allows a normal "I" class rider to try "A" class if most the "I" class is slower than normal. There really is a fine line and we all have to adapt to each day and situation. If u really want to be seperated by skill level get out and freeking race. At mid ohio they try to combat bad rider placement by having mass mass track coaches out on the track to help watch riding styles. All orgs do things differently and they all want the days to be SAFE as possible. Nothing about our sport is safe due to even the best riders crash,but all the orgs can do is try. If u dont feel safe with a particular org dont go and it wont hurt anybodys feelings.

[Moto-Brian]

i never said you did... quite the opposite:

STT is a business. I can appreciate that. filling the "A" group is better business than leaving 10 spots empty because getting into "A" group is difficult.

NESBA isn't a business. They absolutely take a financial hit on days where "A" group is half-full. But the fact that they only have to break-even means that they can be picky about who is really at "A" pace, and "I" pace. That helps prevent people from ever registering into a spot where they're grossly under pace, and prevents the awkward/angry encounters you describe.

If you consider that "bashing" STT, then I'm sorry, but I don't see it as anything more than a factual difference. The problem isn't with STT or NESBA as much as it's with people's fragile egos.

NESBA is a business. They say they are non profit, but they still follow a business model. Otherwise, they wouldn't survive...

What you need to realize is it isn't about filling group spots, but rather total entries. Whether it is fully filled in Novice (typical) or I or Advanced. It's looked at as more in total rather than per group. Sure, we fill up in say Intermediate and we will have some sign up in Advanced, but the way we structure it, we have wiggle room to move riders around where need be.

As for what Brandon stated - couldn't have said it better. Kudos.

[madcat6183]

Personally, having a friend who coaches STT at Mid Ohio only, I believe they ran that show the right way and everything was done how it should have been.

I agree with Rusty after what I've been reading about the "new" Mid O running and operations. Personally, I know of several people that STT moved down several groups, not just 1-2 but from low I to low N because they had no idea. I also know that several were not happy about it, but did as they were told, and made strides by listening.

I love Mid Ohio having grown up watching the track all summer, but I really do feel STT runs a great operation. I ll give Mid O 1 day early in the season to try out but I ll also post what I see then as well.

[rusty]

lots of people think they better then they realy are,because they run A at putnam or nelson ledge dosn't mean they automaticaly qualify for A at mid ohio or other tracks.

late in season at mid ohio the couches race each other insted of controling the rest riders,or one couch crash and his friend couch stop at the track to check if he is ok.with NESBA you cant pass inside in I level{i dont agree with that},but i got push out inside turn by two couches couple times it was elbow to elbow pass,it was tight even for A level.i never have that problem with STT couch make dangerous pass in turn,specialy if you inside line in turn and they still trying go underneath you.every event have different couches so its not fair judge STT or NESBA who is better.if mid ohio get close to this two that will be great,or if they do rain policy.if other tracks can do it why not them,they know you cant ride when the track is wet.

[redkow97]

Different/new tracks are a valid argument for choosing your own riding group. I think it's most applicable to "A" riders, but learning a track in "I" would be a nice option if you're new to the layout. It's nice that STT has that option. I wish NESBA would let people bump themselves down, even if just for a few sessions, to get their braking markers and turn-in points down.

you said "couches" a lot - did you mean "coaches," or were you referring to people who are riding slowly through the turns?

the situation you reference was being run wide. that can surely happen. But you'd be just as pissed off if someone had made an inside pass, low-sided, and taken you out that way. The difference is you CHOSE to make the pass, and assumed that risk. If someone is passing you on the inside, then THEY are the one choosing to put YOU at risk. That just doesn't sit well with me (at a trackday, in the "I" group anyway).

If I'm going to pass someone on the outside, you better believe i'm going to follow them for a lap or two and see where they're leaving room, and I'd still try to get them on the brakes, or coming out of a turn if I could... Outside passes are a last resort, IMHO.

Again, passing rules don't make either org better or worse - it's personal preference and how much you trust your fellow riders. I usually spend the morning sessions just feeling out who I don't have to worry about, and who I need to watch out for (with any org).

I don't recall anyone ever making an inside pass in me in STT's "I" group. Monte always says, "'I' guys, passing on the straights, or leave a 6' buffer in the turns. inside is ok, outside is even better." I agree.

Edited December 30, 2009 by redkow97

[rusty]

Different/new tracks are a valid argument for choosing your own riding group. I think it's most applicable to "A" riders, but learning a track in "I" would be a nice option if you're new to the layout. It's nice that STT has that option. I wish NESBA would let people bump themselves down, even if just for a few sessions, to get their braking markers and turn-in points down.

you said "couches" a lot - did you mean "coaches," or were you referring to people who are riding slowly through the turns?

the situation you reference was being run wide. that can surely happen. But you'd be just as pissed off if someone had made an inside pass, low-sided, and taken you out that way. The difference is you CHOSE to make the pass, and assumed that risk. If someone is passing you on the inside, then THEY are the one choosing to put YOU at risk. That just doesn't sit well with me (at a trackday, in the "I" group anyway).

If I'm going to pass someone on the outside, you better believe i'm going to follow them for a lap or two and see where they're leaving room, and I'd still try to get them on the brakes, or coming out of a turn if I could... Outside passes are a last resort, IMHO.

Again, passing rules don't make either org better or worse - it's personal preference and how much you trust your fellow riders. I usually spend the morning sessions just feeling out who I don't have to worry about, and who I need to watch out for (with any org).

I don't recall anyone ever making an inside pass in me in STT's "I" group. Monte always says, "'I' guys, passing on the straights, or leave a 6' buffer in the turns. inside is ok, outside is even better." I agree.

i say and mean couches.it was happen at putnam,i ride A with STT and I with NESBA there.that day i was passing everybody in I level,and i know the couches are lot more faster,but they should not do crazy stuff there,one of them later crash.

[c7fx]

Rusty COUCHES are an upholstered piece of furniture. I'm sure your meaning Coaches or control riders.

Everyone crashes right?

Edited December 30, 2009 by c7fx

[rusty]

Rusty COUCHES are an upholstered piece of furniture. I'm sure your meaning Coaches or control riders.

Everyone crashes right?

HAHAHA.april come soon my friend