jporter12 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 when has any thread gone as planned THAT is what I want to know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 You tell me how many times Bush went without any media. Feel free to cite your sources.Thats just it, there isnt many sources beacuse he didn't do it for publicity. Here this is recent:http://www.current-movie-reviews.com/politics/2009/11/10/george-w-bush-visits-fort-hood-families-in-secret/"Former President George W. Bush and First Lady Laura Bush made a surprise and unannounced visit to the families and victims of the recent Fort Hood Terrorist Attack. The former President instructed the Commander at Fort Hood that there would be NO publicity of this visit" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 When you make a claim you back it up. Otherwise you have nothing more than people spouting bullshit just to hear them selves speak.Like BHO does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohdaho Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Why is this even an issue? Hes the president...hes going to have press around him 99% of his presidency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I disagree, this is the same as "No New Taxes!"... may not be what you wanted to hear or the venue you agree with,, but this was substance.this was just a show to realign himself with his base. (imo) with the health care not doing so hot for him, and some of the other things not taking the path he thought they would go, he has lost some moderate base and this is a chance to try to appeal to them in a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Thats just it, there isnt many sources beacuse he didn't do it for publicity. Here this is recent:http://www.current-movie-reviews.com/politics/2009/11/10/george-w-bush-visits-fort-hood-families-in-secret/"Former President George W. Bush and First Lady Laura Bush made a surprise and unannounced visit to the families and victims of the recent Fort Hood Terrorist Attack. The former President instructed the Commander at Fort Hood that there would be NO publicity of this visit"Wait so how do you know Obama hasn't gone in secret? So your source is http://www.current-movie-reviews.com and it's dated November 10, 2009. That's how long after he's been out of office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 When you make a claim you back it up. Otherwise you have nothing more than people spouting bullshit just to hear them selves speak. Uh yeah, did you miss it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Why is this even an issue? Hes the president...hes going to have press around him 99% of his presidency.That's pretty much my thought on it. I actually don't expect almost any sitting president to be able to make a visit somewhere without media present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Uh yeah, did you miss it?No, I was responding to Kawi. You must have missed my reply to your source while replying to that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 When you make a claim you back it up. Otherwise you have nothing more than people spouting bullshit just to hear them selves speak.i was just referring to the asking for info that is not going to be out there. i remember a thead awhile back where that got pretty retarded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Wait so how do you know Obama hasn't gone in secret? So your source is http://www.current-movie-reviews.com and it's dated November 10, 2009. That's how long after he's been out of office? I said it was recent. Clinton, Gore still made publicity stunts even after they were no bodies. Do you hear anything more about Bush? If it was a minor leak, it's gonna be hard to cite sourse. But you must have been in a cave when it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 No, I was responding to Kawi. You must have missed my reply to your source while replying to that though. Lol post tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I said it was recent. Clinton, Gore still made publicity stunts even after they were no bodies. Do you hear anything more about Bush? If it was a minor leak, it's gonna be hard to cite sourse. But you must have been in a cave when it happened.I'm not even sure that makes any sense. So basically you don't know if he actually did or not either. You heard something, somewhere at sometime? As many people that like to make the Bush meeting in private claim you would think there would be a bit more out there to reference.Clinton and Gore are't nobodies and are both still very active. Gore admittedly is a bit of a nut though. Bush however is done for politically. Bush Sr even has a little political life left him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I'm not even sure that makes any sense. So basically you don't know if he actually did or not either. You heard something, somewhere at sometime? As many people that like to make the Bush meeting in private claim you would think there would be a bit more out there to reference.Clinton and Gore are't nobodies and are both still very active. Gore admittedly is a bit of a nut though. Bush however is done for politically. Bush Sr even has a little political life left him.Backing up a lil to one of your earlier posts where I didnt answer your question. Everything Obama has done has been a photo op. Look at 9/11 flying a plane over NYC. That was well thought out. And I found this, but could only copy a snippet, it wouldnt open the whole link. President Bush secretly traveled to Baghdad and paid a surprise Thanksgiving Day visit to U.S. troops on Thursday in a bid to boost the morale of forces in Iraq amid mounting casualties." ... "In an elaborate plan to ensure his security in the tense Iraqi capital, Bush slipped away from his Texas ranch on Wednesday night, arrived in Iraq on Thursday and spent 2-1/2 hours with the troops before flying back to the United States." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Even though committing 30k more troops is the wrong way to go, I suppose fusion is right, he hasn't really changed his stance... I mean, Obama was against the IRAQ war, not the Afghan one.http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2009/12/01/afghanistan-obama-has-told-us-before/So, while I'm opposed to the money, time, and personnel commitment - Obama isn't necessarily flip-flopping on this, regardless that it's the wrong war to fight at this time when were already stretched thin in the military and still have looming domestic issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 my beef is why the time line? now they know "hey we got 18 months and they are gonna start pulling troops out." im afraid they will just hunker down and wait it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohdaho Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I agree with the his focus on afghanistan but dont agree with the fact he's put a drop dead date to pull out...suspiciously close to the beginning of the 2012 campaign for re-election where success is already defined by troop removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Backing up a lil to one of your earlier posts where I didnt answer your question. Everything Obama has done has been a photo op. Look at 9/11 flying a plane over NYC. That was well thought out. And I found this, but could only copy a snippet, it wouldnt open the whole link. President Bush secretly traveled to Baghdad and paid a surprise Thanksgiving Day visit to U.S. troops on Thursday in a bid to boost the morale of forces in Iraq amid mounting casualties." ... "In an elaborate plan to ensure his security in the tense Iraqi capital, Bush slipped away from his Texas ranch on Wednesday night, arrived in Iraq on Thursday and spent 2-1/2 hours with the troops before flying back to the United States."Air Force One over New York wasn't Obama's doing. Not sure how you can pin that on him.It's his first year in office after a rather ummm.. active Bush presidency. You don't think the media is going to be all over him no matter what he does. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on both sides. Seems like petty crap to me.Of course Bush's visit on Thanksgiving in 2003 had to be planned in secret. It's not exactly stable over there. He took a risk and went. Props to him for that. ...or I could be like you guys and say, 'Wow I noticed all the photos of him over there. Nice photo op to look like a good guy after sending troops over to die in a needless war.' Give me a break.my beef is why the time line? now they know "hey we got 18 months and they are gonna start pulling troops out." im afraid they will just hunker down and wait it out. There has to be a timeline. It's golden rule of doing anything. If you want to have a chance to succeed, you have to set a target date. It doesn't matter if it's installing a new toilet or major military operation. Setting a date for completion is a golden rule for being able to plan for success. Otherwise no one is in a hurry to get anything done. That's especially true when you have to rely on a third party, in this case Afghanistan, to do something. Without a timeline there would be zero incentive to do anything. No target date means never having to be finished. Not setting a date also shows poor planning and lack of confidence in execution.Now if we don't jump in someone's shit after that date has come to pass with no real reason for missing it...I'll be pissed as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Obama during campaigning saying he will pull troops out of Afghanistan.I think you may have a hard time finding that. His campaigning was always pull out of Iraq and concentrate on Afghanistan. He ripped Bush non-stop for fighting the 'wrong' war and not focusing on Afghanistan. It was a major theme in his campaign. I think Obama is scum but tonight is actually the closest he has come to keeping a campaign promise. What surprises me the most is the left is screaming about this surge in Afghanistan. Guess they were not listening to him during the campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 There has to be a timeline. It's golden rule of doing anything. If you want to have a chance to succeed, you have to set a target date.There was no timeline for Iraq's surge. It was a huge surge and we are going to kick butt and finish the job. It worked very well. You can't have a timeline in war it is to unpredictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohdaho Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 There has to be a timeline. It's golden rule of doing anything. If you want to have a chance to succeed, you have to set a target date. It doesn't matter if it's installing a new toilet or major military operation. Setting a date for completion is a golden rule for being able to plan for success. Otherwise no one is in a hurry to get anything done. That's especially true when you have to rely on a third party, in this case Afghanistan, to do something. Without a timeline there would be zero incentive to do anything. No target date means never having to be finished. Not setting a date also shows poor planning and lack of confidence in execution.Now if we don't jump in someone's shit after that date has come to pass with no real reason for missing it...I'll be pissed as hell.Thats not true considering the timeline. Most senior officers and military training teaches you to set CLEAR and ACHIEVABLE objectives....tactical, operational and strategic. Objectives define success not meeting a timeline. Im not one of his military advisors so I dont know the details behind the obejctives outside of what he mentioned and even those seemed vague. But I understand why...so I just have faith in our military advisors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) Air Force One over New York wasn't Obama's doing. Not sure how you can pin that on him.It's his first year in office after a rather ummm.. active Bush presidency. You don't think the media is going to be all over him no matter what he does. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on both sides. Seems like petty crap to me.Of course Bush's visit on Thanksgiving in 2003 had to be planned in secret. It's not exactly stable over there. He took a risk and went. Props to him for that. ...or I could be like you guys and say, 'Wow I noticed all the photos of him over there. Nice photo op to look like a good guy after sending troops over to die in a needless war.' Give me a break.There has to be a timeline. It's golden rule of doing anything. If you want to have a chance to succeed, you have to set a target date. It doesn't matter if it's installing a new toilet or major military operation. Setting a date for completion is a golden rule for being able to plan for success. Otherwise no one is in a hurry to get anything done. That's especially true when you have to rely on a third party, in this case Afghanistan, to do something. Without a timeline there would be zero incentive to do anything. No target date means never having to be finished. Not setting a date also shows poor planning and lack of confidence in execution.Now if we don't jump in someone's shit after that date has come to pass with no real reason for missing it...I'll be pissed as hell.The Whitehouse represents the president. Airforce one represents the president. If he and his people were worth a shit, they would have seen this was a bad idea from the get go. How was this not a publicity stunt for his presidency?"At 4:39 p.m. Monday, the White House issued an apology for the flyover. Louis E. Caldera, director of the White House Military Office, who served in the Clinton administration as secretary of the Army, said in a statement: Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision. While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it’s clear that the mission created confusion and disruption. I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that flight caused.The mission on Monday, officials said, was set up to create an iconic shot of Air Force One, similar to one that was taken in recent years over the Grand Canyon."And if you give them a time line, are you so naive to think they will not hide out for that time period while regrouping and when we leave, come out and start it again? There should be a timeline given to the generals but it should be something to the such as " I want to be out by 2011, what do we need to do to make that happen?" Then they toss it around and say , "No 2011 can't happen but maybe 2012" . And then that is kept secret, not broadcast to everyone and their mother. You can't have timelines in war. Edited December 2, 2009 by chevysoldier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 There was no timeline for Iraq's surge. It was a huge surge and we are going to kick butt and finish the job. It worked very well. You can't have a timeline in war it is to unpredictable.How many years since the start? How many years after we declared mission accomplished?Oh yeah there was a timeline set to pull out of Iraq. By the Bush Administration. Mid last year. Gee maybe because they released they needed at least some target date or date range to pull out by to pressure the Iraqi's a bit more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Oh yeah there was a timeline set to pull out of Iraq. By the Bush Administration. Mid last year. Gee maybe because they released they needed at least some target date or date range to pull out by to pressure the Iraqi's a bit more...That is intellectually dishonest. Bush set the with drawl time line AFTER the surge worked. Not before. Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 The Whitehouse represents the president. Airforce one represents the president. If he and his people were worth a shit, they would have seen this was a bad idea from the get go. How was this not a publicity stunt for his presidency?"At 4:39 p.m. Monday, the White House issued an apology for the flyover. Louis E. Caldera, director of the White House Military Office, who served in the Clinton administration as secretary of the Army, said in a statement: Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision. While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it’s clear that the mission created confusion and disruption. I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that flight caused.The mission on Monday, officials said, was set up to create an iconic shot of Air Force One, similar to one that was taken in recent years over the Grand Canyon."And if you give them a time line, are you so naive to think they will not hide out for that time period while regrouping and when we leave, come out and start it again? There should be a timeline given to the generals but it should be something to the such as " I want to be out by 2011, what do we need to do to make that happen?" And then that is kept secret, not broadcast to everyone and their mother.You realize the president doesn't know every thing that goes on right? It would be impossible. No president can. One of his staff approved it as it says in your quote. I damn well bet any other staffer under any other president would have to. AF1 is shot all the time in different locations.Frankly I wouldn't consider it a mistake. A little insensitive to New Yorkers...maybe. Everyone and their mother was notified it was going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.