Ammo for your carry gun

[chevysoldier]

Sounds kinda silly. Different ammo in different mags would make more sense. Personally, I think your average JHP in your caliber of choice is the best way to go for most folks. If you are so worried about ammo that you alternate rounds in your mag, you spend WAY too much time on gun forums.

Actually I dont think he gets on forums very much. He's been carrying about 40 years or something like that. Has pulled his gun I think 4 times, each time has saved his life. Former Air Traffic controller and air marshall.

[walther_gsp]

Actually I dont think he gets on forums very much. He's been carrying about 40 years or something like that. Has pulled his gun I think 4 times, each time has saved his life. Former Air Traffic controller and air marshall.

If I recall, air marshals supposedly carried frangible rounds at one point. By all accounts, they no longer do. Frangible rounds make sense on an airplane, once again, specific use case. Alternating rounds kinda defeats the purpose of the specific use case.

[chevysoldier]

If I recall, air marshals supposedly carried frangible rounds at one point. By all accounts, they no longer do. Frangible rounds make sense on an airplane, once again, specific use case. Alternating rounds kinda defeats the purpose of the specific use case.

I understand what you are saying about defeating the purpose, but if you separate the ammo into 2 magazines you may have to switch magazines before you fire. No matter what you carry or how you carry it, you can never be fully prepared for EVERY situation that could arise. Too many variables. was just throwing that info out there to think about is all.

[Tomcat0403]

Well I know this is going to sound stupid now but I alternate rounds...three hollows then fmj, hollow, fmj etc...I figure if I need to shoot more than three times to hit someone they are either behind cover or in a car or something

[MidgetTodd]

If you use a frangible round such as a black talon, ranger stx or hydroshock it shows that you intend to do excessive bodily harm. You intend to kill the attacker as apposed to just stopping the attack.

If I have to use my gun on an attacker thats exactly what I intend to do . Ranger STX is whats in mine

[kawi kid]

i just picked up some hornaday's for mine since they were cheapest ppa for the 40 cal i could find at the time.

[dmagicglock]

there's nothing wrong with being worried about legal implications if you are a CCW holder. That being said, find a new lawyer. Secondly you can get umbrella coverage through your insurance if you're ever in a "self defense" situation and then are sued by the assailants family. This will provide you with the money to get you through a civil trial. Thirdly, if you have the mindset in a gun fight that you just want to injure him just enough to stop him... you have no business carrying a gun. Because you're just going to end up dead. If you find yourself without the mentality to go into a gun fight and be committed till the end, i.e. grouping rounds in your attackers chest until he can no longer function... you will be seriously harmed or injured. Legally you're only allowed to use deadly force if you feel you or someone else's life faces serious bodily harm or death, you also have to have duty to evade and match force with equal force. So there is no malicious intent, only self defense present. It would be like a prosecutor arguing you had malicious intent for using a .45 vs a .22. You can look at many incidents of shootings and you will find several people have made the mistake of shooting in the leg or an appendage and it didn't stop the assailant and they ended up dead or seriously injured. There's also been documented cases of assailants being shot 10 times or more before being incapacitated. If you think one or two frangible rounds is going to get it done, you just might not be prepared. If your life is depending on it... why wouldn't you want to carry the best round? I carry quality hollow points for the same reason I don't carry a "hi point" gun for self defense. I want to have the best chance possible in defending my life. If you wouldn't wear a $30 fulmer helmet when you go to the track with motorcycle... why would you carry crap ammo? Sorry for my soap box rant there... But I'll leave you with some of the best advice I ever heard from a retired LEO.

The worst mistake you can make is thinking that you can rationalize with a criminal, that they have the same mindset you do. You do that you you might just end up dead.

Edited December 6, 2009 by dmagicglock

[chevysoldier]

there's nothing wrong with being worried about legal implications if you are a CCW holder. That being said, find a new lawyer. Secondly you can get umbrella coverage through your insurance if you're ever in a "self defense" situation and then are sued by the assailants family. This will provide you with the money to get you through a civil trial. Thirdly, if you have the mindset in a gun fight that you just want to injure him just enough to stop him... you have no business carrying a gun. Because you're just going to end up dead. If you find yourself without the mentality to go into a gun fight and be committed till the end, i.e. grouping rounds in your attackers chest until he can no longer function... you will be seriously harmed or injured. Legally you're only allowed to use deadly force if you feel you or someone else's life faces serious bodily harm or death, you also have to have duty to evade and match force with equal force. So there is no malicious intent, only self dense present. It would be like a prosecutor arguing you had malicious intent for using a .45 vs a .22. You can look at many incidents of shootings and you will find several people have made the mistake of shooting in the leg or an appendage and it didn't stop the assailant and they ended up dead or seriously injured. There's also been documented cases of assailants being shot 10 times or more before being incapacitated. If you think one or two frangible rounds is going to get it done, you just might not be prepared. If your life is depending on it... why wouldn't you want to carry the best round? I carry quality hollow points for the same reason I don't carry a "hi point" gun for self defense. I want to have the best chance possible in defending my life. If you wouldn't wear a $30 fulmer helmet when you go to the track with motorcycle... why would you carry crap ammo? Sorry for my soap box rant there... But I'll leave you with some of the best advice I ever heard from a retired LEO.

The worst mistake you can make is thinking that you can rationalize with a criminal, that they have the same mindset you do. You do that you you might just end up dead.

I want to make sure I clarify my previous posts to you. I have been around guns my whole life. But I have never given much thought to ammo until I started thinking about getting my CHL, which I hope to get this week. Like you had stated, if I get into a confrontation with someone trying to kill me, I;m not going to shoot him in the leg to hope he stops. It'll be on like donkey kong. But my questions about the use of frangible round stems from the fact that I live in an apartment with tennants on both sides of me. I have actually mentally gone through scenarios in my head should someone break in. Due to how the rooms are set up, this means if I were to use a FMJ, there is a high probabilty that rounds could go into the 1 year olds room next door. I will protect my familys life no matter what, but I also do not want to take an innocents life either. Now someone had mentioned "what if they wore a heavy coat" the frangible round may not penetrate. Is this really a valid argument? I don't know. I have heard this is true, but we all know how reliable "he said, she said" rumors can be. I really am not trying to be a smart ass with ammo, Only trying to learn as much as I can to neutralize the threat yet not go over board and risk killing a little kid next door.

And in case it makes a difference in ammo, and someone may have some thoughts, I have an M&P 45 compact that will be my carry gun. I even have it on me around the apartment 99% of the time. My wife was actually making fun of me for keeping it with me all the time until the news the other day talked about the guy that broke in and just started shooting at the resident. She doesn't comment on the gun being with me any more. If this sounds paranoid, well I will protect my daughter to the best of my ability. What good does a gun do if it is upstairs where I cann't get to it in an emergency?

I do agree with all you had said though. It is amazing how adrenaline can cause the body to still function with some bullet holes in it.

[chevysoldier]

Which is why carrying FMJ ammunition in your handgun is irresponsible and dangerous. The hollow point is designed to expand on impact thus causing the most internal damage possible. Sometimes the percussion alone is enough to drop an attacker.

Take a small stone and drop it in a pond. Then' date=' take a large rock and drop it in a pond. Which one causes the most wake? The same theory is applied to the human body. Internal organs are mostly water. Simply penetrating a lung may not stop a threat, but if a giant chunk of that lung were to be shoved into the heart, stomach, kidney, etc. you just might drop an assailant quicker. Stop trying to rationalize against physics. The FMJ is a terrible choice for a carry round.[/quote']

Right, I understand that about FMJ. My biggest question is fangible vs. standard hollow points.

[jagr]

I love this thread.

[balaormiga]

It is my opinion that if I'm concerned for my safety to the point of drawing and using my gun than I plan on using deadly force.

Leg shots etc..... Not happening. With the adrenaline and more than likely the abruptness of the situation I'm going for the easiest shot. The chest and then the head.

The deadlier the ammo the better. Correct me if I'm wrong but you have a better chance of being taken to court if the assailant is left alive.. ??

With that said, not having done much research.. what ammo would you guys recommend for my 9 mm and my 380? I use hollow points now though I did not do much research on the subject.

[dmagicglock]

corbon DPX is what I use in my 9 mm and hornady critical defense in my .380

[balaormiga]

corbon DPX is what I use in my 9 mm and hornady critical defense in my .380

Ok. I use the Hornady Critical defense in my 9 and currently magtechs in my 380. Why Corbon DPX? Why not Hornady in both?

[max power]

hornady critical defense +p in my .38

As my ccw instructor said over and over, "make lots of big holes and get the blood flowing".

[Lost]

Anyone who shoots for legs or arms is an idiot..... Like everyone here I am shooting center mass till the gun goes click. The debate is not shot placement, it is round choice

My firearm choice and round choice do exactly what max power said. 45 colt Lots of BIG holes 300 grain bullet traveling at 900fps. were as a 40 S&W sends a 150 grain bullet at 1100fps. 9mm luger 124 grain hydro shock bullet at 1220 fps.

Frangible rounds were labeled cop killers in the mid 90's, black talons had a coating on them that made them black. The coating not teflon was rumored to help the bullet pass thru bullet proof vests. These rumors are untrue of course. But Frangible rounds have been labeled bad evil by the general public who will be sitting on the grand jury.

I would never shoot at an attacker whose back was to a room occupied by a loved one. I don't give a shit what kinda bullet you chose if you miss that bullet will pass thru the wall into the next room. So your argument about shooting a guy against your one year olds room is ridiculous. I would never risk my childs life. I would move myself to an angle for a safer shot.

A complete CCW course in a weekend?????? In adequate training, sounds like training just to carry and not truly prepare you for the consequences. We spent two nights on shot choices and evaluating situations. The course I participated in lasted two weeks, three nights during the week and two saturdays at the range. We even had training on handling the police after a shooting or being stopped while carrying. But I digress.

I have a million dollar personal liability policy plus the NRA protection as well. Just trying to get the OR carrying group to think about carrying a firearm beyond it is cool.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Lost
clarification of a point

[kawi kid]

I love this thread.

i <3 you

[jagr]

Lost, alot of us here have had some extensive military training. but yeah i was thinking a 12 hr one day CCW course is prolly gonna miss somethings. im not really relying on it to get me 100% up on CCW. im doing it to fulfill a requirement THE MAN made. ill do the homework myself.

[ltsrunm]

Just trying to get the OR carrying group to think about carrying a firearm beyond it is cool.

Anyone carrying because they think it's "cool" is an idiot and is probably at least as dangerous as the criminal attacker. Just my .02

[Lost]

Read some of the CCW posts you will understand my opinion that some on the board carry because it is cool. I carry because I live in the hood.

[max power]

I carry because I do alot of work in the hood. I dont think its cool, I think its a PITA, but its better than being dead.

[ltsrunm]

I agree with you completely. Like you, just hoping that someone here doesn't make a fatal mistake by shooting an innocent bystander. There are a lot of good reasons to carry, but being cool isn't one of them.

[MidgetTodd]

I carry to help along the theroy of natural selection

[Likwid]

We should add one to that original post.

"I don't carry because it's cool, I carry because being dead is not cool"

Anyway, back to OP, couple things to think about. Frangible rounds are not penetrating rounds... when you consider 2 layers of clothing and a coat... the last thing I want to be thinking about is "will this stop him?" or "Ok, I need to take 3 shots because that's where my HP/FMJ is in the magazine"... considering what other things people have posted about 21 feet in 1 second and average draw and shoot is 1.5 seconds... I don't want to worry about what round I have chambered.

Yes, knowing what is beyond your target is extremely important, so is not being dead... in an apartment with drywall and a baby in the next room, you should plan ahead, but not risk your family's life... (but I realize you've talked about HD vs carry, I'm just touching on Walther's 'specific situations' comment)

End of the day, carry whatever you feel safe with, and let it be done.

Liability insurance, I don't carry an umbrella policy because I don't have enough assets for it to be worthwhile.

[chevysoldier]

I would never shoot at an attacker whose back was to a room occupied by a loved one. I don't give a shit what kinda bullet you chose if you miss that bullet will pass thru the wall into the next room. So your argument about shooting a guy against your one year olds room is ridiculous. I would never risk my childs life. I would move myself to an angle for a safer shot.

I have a million dollar personal liability policy plus the NRA protection as well. Just trying to get the OR carrying group to think about carrying a firearm beyond it is cool.

First off, it isn't my one year olds room, it's the neighbors. And by your rational, this gives me two shooting positions, perpendicular to the front and towards the rear of the apartment. Now seeing as I can't tell the bad guy to stand where I can get a safe shot at him I need to consider the possiblity that I may have to take a shot at him with his back to a room that I don't know who is in it. Hence my question about frangible rounds. You also have no idea of how my apartment is set up either. You can say you would move to have a better shot but what happens if the intruder sneaks up on you in the middle of the night and you grab your gun just in time to point it at him and squeeze? There are a million scenarios out there. By living where I do, for home defense, I am seriously considering frangible rounds. Now if I get a house in the boonies, yeah standard hollow points.

And no I dont have guns to be cool. I lhave them because I value my life and the lives of my family.

And yes likwid, I did kind of turn this into HD ammo choices, as this wasnt my choice but is a concern.

Edited December 6, 2009 by chevysoldier

[Lost]

Likwid the insurance is not to protect what you currently own but you and your families future. They can and will garnish your wages to fulfill a judgment.

A civil judgment can be worse than a criminal judgment. I was going to use OJ as the example, Agree or disagree innocent in criminal court and guilty in civil court. For losing everything he owns he lives pretty well, except for currently being in jail for an unrelated incident.