SWing'R mobile repair saga continues....

[SWing'R]

So, for those that don't know, our car is not feeling well, see post #19 and 22 in this thread... http://www.ohio-riders.com/showthread.php?t=40371

(I don't feel like explaining it all over again)

So, third time in the shop, they tell us on Monday they replaced the "rear" catalytic convertor and drove it for awhile, and its running fine now and is

fixed, again (3rd time). I tell them... keep it til tomorrow, run it in the morning when its cold, then call me and tell me its fixed. They do, they ran it this morning,

and again this afternoon with no problems, so we get excited AGAIN that are car if finally fixed, again, yay. Wife picks it up at 6:30pm tonight, drove it home, ran fine.

We decide to go out to dinner and to stop at Walmart for a few things. Get back in the car at 6:55pm, turn the key, engine shakes, engine light comes on and flashes, car sounds like its running on 2 fricken cylinders!

At this point, I fucking explode! I'm fucking off-the-hook pissed! I give it some gas and it stops shaking and the light stops flashing but stays on.

We proceeded to drive back over to the shop which closes at 7pm, we get there at 7:05, the guy is still inside, I went inside and tore him a fucking new one.

I was yellin at the guy so badly some other dude that was sitting over in the waiting area came over and stood near him cause I think he thought I was gonna fucking hit him! I'd never do that, just needed to vent! I'm a little dude, i can't fight so I gotta make a lot of noise!

Anyway, after I cooled down and we talked a little about what it did, and the fact that giving it gas made it go away now he thinks maybe its a fuel injector.

Sounds logical. So back to the shop its gonna go on Friday, we're gonna see how it acts the next couple days.

I think when this is all done and over with their gonna block our phone numbers from calling their store .

BTW, they made this last repair at no cost, not sure whats gonna happen next.

[Likwid]

Dude..... I've never seen you pissed... did your wife record it by any chance?

[max power]

Fuckin crazy. dont they have a code reader?

[SWing'R]

Fuckin crazy. dont they have a code reader?

Every time the code has been "random cylinder misfire" or "catalytic converter efficiency".

Thing is, lots of different things can cause the cylinder misfire code, it doesn't tell you WHAT caused it, only that it happened.

I think a faulty fuel injector is a good possibility, it may have been the problem all along.

BTW, it ran fine the rest of this evening even though the lite stayed on.

[SWing'R]

Dude..... I've never seen you pissed... did your wife record it by any chance?

No but she watched from outside, when I got back to the car she said "you were really yellin at him weren't you", I said yeah, why.

She said I was swinging my arms all over the place and shit, what can I say, I'm Italian!

[RSVDon]

Need to know what the codes are. Just had a car do this where it shook at idle. It threw codes for lean/rich conditions, 02 learn range exceeded, and bank 1 trim was off. Ended up being a bad 02 sensor on the drivers side. We need to know what the codes were to help. Specifically the code numbers.

Sure they replaced the O2s?

I doubt it's an injector. They rarely fail on any car. The Bosch ones last forever.

[SWing'R]

Yeah' date=' but it won't decipher between air, fuel or spark regarding the misfire. It'll just say what cylinder is misfiring... if they're lucky enough to get a cylinder isolated.

Regardless, if the problem ends up being a failed injector I would absolutely refuse to pay anything more. That's not a hard diagnosis. They should know better.. and maybe next time you should just go to a certified Mazda technician. [/quote']

Yeah yeah. I know.

[SWing'R]

Need to know what the codes are. Just had a car do this where it shook at idle. It threw codes for lean/rich conditions, 02 learn range exceeded, and bank 1 trim was off. Ended up being a bad 02 sensor on the drivers side. We need to know what the codes were to help. Specifically the code numbers.

Sure they replaced the O2s?

I doubt it's an injector. They rarely fail on any car. The Bosch ones last forever.

At $202 a piece (two of them) I certainly hope they replaced em. I don't know what the code numbers were they got, only what the code meant.

[RSVDon]

At $202 a piece (two of them) I certainly hope they replaced em. I don't know what the code numbers were they got' date=' only what the code meant.[/quote']

Ouch bro. $169 for both from VatoZone.

We need codes. Or at least description of exactly what the code said and not their interpretation. If you drive it and it does it again you can go to any auto parts store and get the codes read for free. Then we can get somewhere in terms of online auto repair guessing.

[SWing'R]

Ouch bro. $169 for both from VatoZone.

We need codes. Or at least description of exactly what the code said and not their interpretation. If you drive it and it does it again you can go to any auto parts store and get the codes read for free. Then we can get somewhere in terms of online auto repair guessing.

They've never charged us to read the codes. They also did an computer analysis on the first visit there for free when they replaced the plugs and cables.

I doubt I'll be able to get the "actual" codes for you. As for the price, well everyone knows you can get the parts yourself for cheaper,

but when you have someone else doing the work for you everyone's gotta make some money on the part.

Edited January 6, 2010 by SWing'R

[RSVDon]

Hmmm, okay so apparently on that car some people do have injector issues. BUT, I think the coil needs to be looked at before the fuel injectors. If the coil is malfunctioning it will cause the misfire, and if enough unburned fuel is dumped it will also start to destroy the cat. This is easy to do by checking for voltage getting to the plugs. Many ways to do it.

[RSVDon]

Pretty sure "guessing" is what got him in the situation he's in now.

Shut it smartass, you know what I mean.

[SWing'R]

Hmmm, okay so apparently on that car some people do have injector issues. BUT, I think the coil needs to be looked at before the fuel injectors. If the coil is malfunctioning it will cause the misfire, and if enough unburned fuel is dumped it will also start to destroy the cat.

Well I've got two brand new cats! They checked the ignition coils, I asked that again tonight, they said they're good.

[Disclaimer]

+1 on the code reader idea... but see if they'll loan it to you or rent it to you so you can have it plugged in while your wife drives around so you can read the instantaneous data out of the port.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a MAF/MAP/IAT sensors. If the computer isn't registering the proper intake, it'll start running lean/rich depending on how bad it's out and will cause idle issues. My parents Buick ran rough at idle and it ended up being the MAF sensor right at the intake - $60, done deal.

[jporter12]

Random/Multiple misfire is P0300

Catalyst efficiency Bank 1 is P0420

They SHOULD note what the codes are on the invoice. I always try to do so at the shop.

If what they got deviates from this, they may be barking up the wrong tree.

I'm not 100% sure, but if it's electrical on an injector, it SHOULD set an injector code. It COULD be an injector flow (restricted) problem. Same with the ignition system, if a coil fails on the primary side, and sometimes the secondary, it will set a coil code. Not sure on Mazda though.

What brand and type of plugs did they put in it? Some cars just will not run right on the wrong plug! A Mazda should probably have NGK V-powers in it.

[RSVDon]

+1 on the code reader idea... but see if they'll loan it to you or rent it to you so you can have it plugged in while your wife drives around so you can read the instantaneous data out of the port.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a MAF/MAP/IAT sensors. If the computer isn't registering the proper intake, it'll start running lean/rich depending on how bad it's out and will cause idle issues. My parents Buick ran rough at idle and it ended up being the MAF sensor right at the intake - $60, done deal.

Eh, I've never really seen the MAF throw a misfire. Possible though I guess. Any misfires I've dealt with involved bad ignition or the O2s not reading properly and telling the ECU to put the wrong amount of fuel in.

[RSVDon]

NGK V-powers

Side Note: NGK V-Power FTMFW! I use them in all of my vehicles. Cheap and effective. And they like boost.

[jporter12]

+1 on the code reader idea... but see if they'll loan it to you or rent it to you so you can have it plugged in while your wife drives around so you can read the instantaneous data out of the port.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a MAF/MAP/IAT sensors. If the computer isn't registering the proper intake, it'll start running lean/rich depending on how bad it's out and will cause idle issues. My parents Buick ran rough at idle and it ended up being the MAF sensor right at the intake - $60, done deal.

Unfortunately, a code reader isn't going to give him anything useful. A full scan tool will, but knowing how the data in the datastream means is beyond most people.

MAF/MAP/IAT/TPS/ECT, etc..... aren't USUALLY going to cause a problem such as a misfire that is severe enough to cause the MIL (Check engine, service engine light Malfunction Indicator Lamp) to flash. I'd have to double check to be sure, but it has to be a condition that causes the engine to pollute enough to damage the catalytic converter to flash the light.

[jporter12]

Side Note: NGK V-Power FTMFW! I use them in all of my vehicles. Cheap and effective. And they like boost.

The bikes get NGK's, the GM's get A/C delco (it seems that some are made my NGK now anyway) and the Dodge beater get's Champion. I'm picky like that.

[RSVDon]

I'd have to double check to be sure, but it has to be a condition that causes the engine to pollute enough to damage the catalytic converter to flash the light.

Basically yes. However there are exceptions. For example, turn a MAF the wrong way around when installing it and it will cause weird fluctuations between lean/rich causing the light to come on on your GTO.......don't ask. lol

[hue jass]

The worst problem to diagnos in any car is a 'driveabilty' problem. The computer can tell you that a sensor is malfunctioning, but nothing about whatever's downstream of it. I had an '88 CRX with this very same problem and it was the coil. Car would run great at first, but after warm-up, it would stutter and buck and miss all over the place. There's a simple way to check every piece in the system. A shop should know how to perform these to find the exact problem before they ever order a part. That's why you pay them that much. Otherwise, they're doing it exactly the way an idiot kid would in his back yard - keep changing out parts until it's fixed.

With that coil problem I had, you could test the coil cold and it showed fine. When it heated up, that's when it would act up. The coil (or coils packs) can be tough or impossible to find with a voltmeter. I don't know what the fuck they were doing at the Cats. IMHO I wouldn't worry too much about them blocking your phone number. I would block theirs and probably call channel six, too.

This shit pisses me off. If you're a doctor or a lawyer, you have a liscense to print money. You don't if your a shop. I worked at a dealership where the service writer's jobs were to pad the invoices as much as possible. I worked in parts, by the cashier, and everyday some poor person would be lead in by the service writer in tears asking, "How can this be so much?". I've only found one shop that does it like I do in this town and that's Clintonville Auto Repair. But then I don't look for shops. I'm real sorry you had all these problems, man.

[RSVDon]

They messed with the cat because it threw a "warm start cat efficiency" code. They figured it was a failing cat. They replaced the cat and the O2s and guess what, problem still exists.

[SWing'R]

What brand and type of plugs did they put in it? Some cars just will not run right on the wrong plug! A Mazda should probably have NGK V-powers in it.

Invoice shows NGK Platinum. Heres copies of the invoices (so far)...

Repair #1 page 1, Repair #1 page 2

Repair #2

Repair #3

[hue jass]

They messed with the cat because it threw a "warm start cat efficiency" code. They figured it was a failing cat. They replaced the cat and the O2s and guess what, problem still exists.

That code was thrown by the un-burned fuel durring the miss. Again, punk-asses changin' out shit without knowing the whole story. They run it and park it so it's fine when you pick it up. They don't really want to test it well enough to risk throwing another code. If they did, they'd have to pull the cat, put the old one back on and continue. But that would be a terrible way to make money.

[SWing'R]

...If they did, they'd have to pull the cat, put the old one back on and continue. But that would be a terrible way to make money.

Honestly, I don't mind paying the money I've paid so far, I just want it to be fixed. Up until now we've had very little trouble with this car other than tires and brakes.