Cheech Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 Although it's too late to ask this, but why isn't there a kinda training teaching the cops, not to shoot were to paralyz if they want them alive ? like in this case, if he felt that the guy was pulling a gun couldn't he shoot him in the shoulder ? arm ? elbow ? of the hand pulling the gun ? " they get shooting training right ? so they can shoot a shoulder that close right ? " I am sorry but this thing makes me feel kinda angry, Accedints where people kill riders and it's the rider desicion to ride without steel around him , and now shooting him because he doesn't have a rear view mirror to use, and had to turn .... rant over :nono: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 Oh wow. That's great. Assess. Draw. Point. Shoot. Find out how often a LEO goes to the range? Not very often at all! And they aren't expert "shoot a dime at 300 yards" sportsman. I believe normal run of the mill cops are taught to shoot to neutralize the threat, not to shoot the gun out of his hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdafer Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 +1 in perservation of life always shoot to kill thats what all gun owners practice. But the cops life was far from threatened. that video gave me chills. I am about to get a concieled carry permit and now i will always remember this when on my bike.Cops freak out when you inform them you are licenced to carry and have a pistol on you. the should really only care if you didnt tell them but their ass holes. If i ever get pulled over on the bike with my gun im just going to reach for the sky as soon as the side stand hits the ground. I hate fucking cops. I wish i was a teenager again with nothing to loose. In high school I never pulled over. Ran and got away every time. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Synthetics Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 Although it's too late to ask this, but why isn't there a kinda training teaching the cops, not to shoot were to paralyz if they want them alive ? like in this case, if he felt that the guy was pulling a gun couldn't he shoot him in the shoulder ? arm ? elbow ? of the hand pulling the gun ? " they get shooting training right ? so they can shoot a shoulder that close right ? " I am sorry but this thing makes me feel kinda angry, Accedints where people kill riders and it's the rider desicion to ride without steel around him , and now shooting him because he doesn't have a rear view mirror to use, and had to turn .... rant overIt is standard practice when when training for self defensive shooting to aim for center of mass in order to neutralize a threat. In a high stress situation your don't have time to think about where you should shoot someone in order to do the least damage. If someone is shooting at another person they are trying to stop that person that they feel is a threat to thier own safety. If you are trying to shoot for a shoulder and your aim is slightly off because your are in a high stress situation and you just graze someone you have not neutalized the threat and they can still attack you. That is why police officers or anyone training for self defense situations aims for the center of the torso. If your off a bit you are still likely to hit vital organs which will limit your attackers ability to harm you. I am not defending this police officer for shooting in this situation. I personally do not see how the officer felt his life was threatened by the rider simply turning around to l see what was going on. Like several others have said, in the video I was expecting some shooting off in the distance and then I was like WTF? The guy that pulled over just got shot in the back. I would have turned around just like the rider in the video, probably to the left but I'm sure I would have been shot had I been the rider in that traffic stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 (edited) AMEN!! I can't tell you how angry it makes me that Tom White paralyzed this guy for no good reason, then his attorney tried arguing like White did nothing wrong, & it was irrelevant to the situation that McCoskey's life was ruined Well... Even though I disagree with the lawyer, it is still his job to try to convince the jury in any way possible. Even if the lawyer KNOWS that the defendant is guilty, it is his job to get him off the hook.Although it's too late to ask this, but why isn't there a kinda training teaching the cops, not to shoot were to paralyz if they want them alive ? like in this case, if he felt that the guy was pulling a gun couldn't he shoot him in the shoulder ? arm ? elbow ? of the hand pulling the gun ? " they get shooting training right ? so they can shoot a shoulder that close right ? " I am sorry but this thing makes me feel kinda angry, Accedints where people kill riders and it's the rider desicion to ride without steel around him , and now shooting him because he doesn't have a rear view mirror to use, and had to turn .... rant overWow... A. Spell check is wonderful! B. You are slightly misled on the job of an officer. C. Check out Modern Synthetics post... Makes sense. Shoot to kill not to maim or injure.+1 in perservation of life always shoot to kill thats what all gun owners practice. But the cops life was far from threatened. that video gave me chills. I am about to get a concieled carry permit and now i will always remember this when on my bike.Cops freak out when you inform them you are licenced to carry and have a pistol on you. the should really only care if you didnt tell them but their ass holes. If i ever get pulled over on the bike with my gun im just going to reach for the sky as soon as the side stand hits the ground. I hate fucking cops. I wish i was a teenager again with nothing to loose. In high school I never pulled over. Ran and got away every time. :-)Hating cops is far from the right answer because there really are MANY MANY MANY more good ones than bad. Most people hate cops because they see videos like this or because they got pulled over and didnt think they did anything wrong. What about when you see a video of a cop that shot a bank robber that killed 2 people and was fleeing? Ya, a normal citizen with a concealed carry can shoot the assailant as well and people would praise him/her but if the officer does it he is just doing his job. What about when the cop arrives at the scene of an accident and is the only one there that has to save the life of one of the accident victims? Again, just doing his job. People want cops to do everything perfect all the time and be everywhere at the same time. It isnt going to happen. As for the concealed carry, if you are just now getting your concealed carry, how do you know how a cop reacts when you tell them you have a gun on you? The officer will, more than likely, just ask you where it is, ask to see your card, tell you not to touch the weapon and move on from there. Freak out? Not likely.It is standard practice when when training for self defensive shooting to aim for center of mass in order to neutralize a threat. In a high stress situation your don't have time to think about where you should shoot someone in order to do the least damage. If someone is shooting at another person they are trying to stop that person that they feel is a threat to thier own safety. If you are trying to shoot for a shoulder and your aim is slightly off because your are in a high stress situation and you just graze someone you have not neutalized the threat and they can still attack you. That is why police officers or anyone training for self defense situations aims for the center of the torso. If your off a bit you are still likely to hit vital organs which will limit your attackers ability to harm you. I am not defending this police officer for shooting in this situation. I personally do not see how the officer felt his life was threatened by the rider simply turning around to l see what was going on. Like several others have said, in the video I was expecting some shooting off in the distance and then I was like WTF? The guy that pulled over just got shot in the back. I would have turned around just like the rider in the video, probably to the left but I'm sure I would have been shot had I been the rider in that traffic stop.Agreed... On both statements. Edited May 16, 2010 by alab32 More I wanted to add... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 Well... Even though I disagree with the lawyer, it is still his job to try to convince the jury in any way possible. Even if the lawyer KNOWS that the defendant is guilty, it is his job to get him off the hook.Which is why he's a piece of shit. Anyone with morals won't do something like that. Defense lawyers that try to help guilty murderers, rapists, serial killers, etc.., are a waste of air. If you have any soul/conscience, you cannot, and will not accept a job like that. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 Makes sense. Shoot to kill not to maim or injure.So WTF were these guys trained to do then? http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/05/denny_phillips_had_his_balls_s.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 So WTF were these guys trained to do then? http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/05/denny_phillips_had_his_balls_s.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 So WTF were these guys trained to do then? http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/05/denny_phillips_had_his_balls_s.phpHa ha ha ha ha... well they did whatthey felt was necessary. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Watch the "RAW Video" on the OP's link. It's a little more damning than the first video. Why did the officer take so long to get the bike off of him? It also appears that he keeps holstering/draeing his gun(as if he's very confused). Also, watching the entire video gives the timeline more perspective. Lit up, and the shot within seconds...but minutes to be given any aid.Very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Synthetics Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 +1 in perservation of life always shoot to kill thats what all gun owners practice. But the cops life was far from threatened. that video gave me chills. I am about to get a concieled carry permit and now i will always remember this when on my bike.Cops freak out when you inform them you are licenced to carry and have a pistol on you. the should really only care if you didnt tell them but their ass holes. If i ever get pulled over on the bike with my gun im just going to reach for the sky as soon as the side stand hits the ground. I hate fucking cops. I wish i was a teenager again with nothing to loose. In high school I never pulled over. Ran and got away every time. :-)Have you actually been pulled over while carrying? I have, twice. I immediately put my pistol in center console and pulled out my drivers license and license to carry before LEO approached my vehicle. I then held those two items in my hands which I kept in plain sight, on the steering wheel. When LEO came to truck window I immediately informed him that I was licensed to carry and have a loaded pistol which I placed in the center console. One officer asked that I get out keeping hands in plain sight and step to the rear of the truck so I was not near my weapon. He frisked me to be sure it was not on me and then went to his patrol car with my info. He came back, thanked me for being co-operative and sent me on my way.Second time I informed officer and he didn't even seem to care. Just asked that I keep my hands on the wheel while we spoke and then see ya later have a nice day. Niether one freaked out at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Have you actually been pulled over while carrying? I have, twice. I immediately put my pistol in center console and pulled out my drivers license and license to carry before LEO approached my vehicle. I then held those two items in my hands which I kept in plain sight, on the steering wheel. When LEO came to truck window I immediately informed him that I was licensed to carry and have a loaded pistol which I placed in the center console. One officer asked that I get out keeping hands in plain sight and step to the rear of the truck so I was not near my weapon. He frisked me to be sure it was not on me and then went to his patrol car with my info. He came back, thanked me for being co-operative and sent me on my way.Second time I informed officer and he didn't even seem to care. Just asked that I keep my hands on the wheel while we spoke and then see ya later have a nice day. Niether one freaked out at all.Hmmm... seems to be pretty close to what I was getting at... Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Have you actually been pulled over while carrying? I have, twice. I immediately put my pistol in center console and pulled out my drivers license and license to carry before LEO approached my vehicle. I then held those two items in my hands which I kept in plain sight, on the steering wheel. When LEO came to truck window I immediately informed him that I was licensed to carry and have a loaded pistol which I placed in the center console. One officer asked that I get out keeping hands in plain sight and step to the rear of the truck so I was not near my weapon. He frisked me to be sure it was not on me and then went to his patrol car with my info. He came back, thanked me for being co-operative and sent me on my way.Second time I informed officer and he didn't even seem to care. Just asked that I keep my hands on the wheel while we spoke and then see ya later have a nice day. Niether one freaked out at all.I do have something to add. The one time I was pulled over I immediately pulled over, shut the car off and put my hands on the steering wheel. Before he even pulled me over, by running my plate he already knew I had a CHL. I didn't want to make him even more nervous by moving around a lot. When he approached me, my exact words were "Excuse me officer. I am required to notify you that I have a license to carry a concealed handgun and I am currently armed." He asked me where it was at. "On my right hip at 4 o'clock. He thanked me and continued with the stop. He asked me for my license and registration and I informed him my license was in my wallet right next to my gun. He said that's fine and go ahead and get it for him. Afterwards I thanked him for being professional and we BS'ed for a little bit. Very nice guy. I did not get cited for anything.My only other time having to notify was when we called the police for the damages to our satellite dish. I said the exact same thing to this officer and he just did a quick scan of my body and said "Okay, thank you for informing me" I also struck up a conversation with him. We talked about our military experience and firearms. I gotta make good with the Pataskala PD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy9743 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 This is local for me...didn't read the thread but the motorcycle rider was banging the cops wife true story. should have shot the wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightRider Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) This is local for me...didn't read the thread but the motorcycle rider was banging the cops wife true story. should have shot the wife.What...? I call bs as of now. But...if that's the case the cop...should go to jail for a much longer time imo. He was out headhunting this guy, and 100% had a motive to shoot and possibly kill the rider. It's weird. I just had this conversation with another OR member in person a day or 2 ago. Don't fuck with a leo's significant other. Edited May 17, 2010 by NightRider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garysol1 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 This is local for me...didn't read the thread but the motorcycle rider was banging the cops wife true story. should have shot the wife.is this substantiated any where? Any links or just word of mouth second hand knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy9743 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 What...? I call bs as of now. But...if that's the case the cop...should go to jail for a much longer time imo. He was out headhunting this guy, and 100% had a motive to shoot and possibly kill the rider. It's weird. I just had this conversation with another OR member in person a day or 2 ago. Don't fuck with a leo's significant other.is this substantiated any where? Any links or just word of mouth second hand knowledge?Links? i said this was local for me, usually people don't make their personal business public especially if you're nailing a cops wife. Believe what you will Mc.C.'s uncle is in my golf league. Played with him yesterday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 This is local for me...didn't read the thread but the motorcycle rider was banging the cops wife true story. should have shot the wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolWhip Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Man, I normally give cops the benefit of the doubt, but this is really scary. I have a ccw and I carry it all the time when I ride. I have been pulled over while carrying in my car but never on my bike. I wouldn't touch the gun at all as soon as I see those lights behind me I'm not going to try to put it in my center console that is just asking to get shot. Just leave the gun where it is put your hands on the steering wheel and wait for the cop, then tell him immediately that you have a license to carry and are carrying. Wait for him to tell you what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garysol1 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Links? i said this was local for me, usually people don't make their personal business public especially if you're nailing a cops wife. Believe what you will Mc.C.'s uncle is in my golf league. Played with him yesterday morning.I am not doubting you or the story at all. I am just wondering if any news services have picked up on it yet. If it is local knowledge then it can't be long until it is in print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy9743 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I am not doubting you or the story at all. I am just wondering if any news services have picked up on it yet. If it is local knowledge then it can't be long until it is in print.gotcha. it was a pretty big deal locally i haven't followed it close online at all. funny it popped up on the superhawk forum that i'm on also. shitty situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macpyro2 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Which is why he's a piece of shit. Anyone with morals won't do something like that. Defense lawyers that try to help guilty murderers, rapists, serial killers, etc.., are a waste of air. If you have any soul/conscience, you cannot, and will not accept a job like that. Sorry. I have many friends/ family in law practices, I'v had this conversation with a defense attorney friend. He pretty much boiled it down to he has to think about his family, he makes substantially much more then he did when he was a prosecutor. Plus the fact there are many people who are truly innocent, think if you where brought up on criminal charges for something you didn't do. I would want a competent defense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I have many friends/ family in law practices, I'v had this conversation with a defense attorney friend. He pretty much boiled it down to he has to think about his family, he makes substantially much more then he did when he was a prosecutor. Plus the fact there are many people who are truly innocent, think if you where brought up on criminal charges for something you didn't do. I would want a competent defense...That is why NinjaNick was basing this off of a defense attorney that knows his client is guilty... Correct me if I m wrong though Ninja cause I do not want to put words in peoples' mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Man, I normally give cops the benefit of the doubt, but this is really scary. I have a ccw and I carry it all the time when I ride. I have been pulled over while carrying in my car but never on my bike. I wouldn't touch the gun at all as soon as I see those lights behind me I'm not going to try to put it in my center console that is just asking to get shot. Just leave the gun where it is put your hands on the steering wheel and wait for the cop, then tell him immediately that you have a license to carry and are carrying. Wait for him to tell you what to do.Correct... I dont recommend pulling it out and putting it in sight either... keep it where it is at and keep your HANDS in sight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Links? i said this was local for me, usually people don't make their personal business public especially if you're nailing a cops wife. Believe what you will Mc.C.'s uncle is in my golf league. Played with him yesterday morning.WHAT!!! Boy... this adds to it a bit... The conviction is done now so it is too late to add evidence to the case but... wow...Sheesh... I should have multi-quoted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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